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why does it seem like CCP is castrating high sec content creators

First post
Author
John Volan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#661 - 2016-06-28 12:38:22 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
...

And when will this 'easy kill' meme stop? There is no such thing as an easy kill - there are just kills. If I want loot or killmails, why should I seek out 'hard kills'? And what would a 'hard kill' be? That doesn't even make any sense.

...

I would say an easy kill is when your target is not shooting back at you.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#662 - 2016-06-28 12:48:00 UTC
So like almost all kills then, got it.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

John Volan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#663 - 2016-06-28 12:55:09 UTC
I would say all of your kills but you do have the small matter of Concord shooting at you.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#664 - 2016-06-28 12:55:37 UTC
John Volan wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
...

And when will this 'easy kill' meme stop? There is no such thing as an easy kill - there are just kills. If I want loot or killmails, why should I seek out 'hard kills'? And what would a 'hard kill' be? That doesn't even make any sense.

...

I would say an easy kill is when your target is not shooting back at you.
Ships die everywhere all the time without firing a shot. They get outnumbered, hot-dropped, gate camped, alpha-ed off the field, bubbled, blobbed and bombed when they cannot mount a viable defense. Further, some of the hardest ships to explode that require the most planning and organization to trap and kill, like freighters, can't even fit weapons.

This imaginary, space samurai ideal of balanced, 1v1 honourable duels at the sun doesn't exist. Well, perhaps almost never exists in that it almost never happens organically that two sides are completely balanced and even. Underhandedness and stacking the fight in your favour is present in almost all fights in this game.

And given the nature of Eve players, even if there was a perfectly balanced fight, the losing side would still find some way to claim that the fight wasn't fair and their opponents did something dishonourable and were only after 'easy kills'.

Such is Eve.

John Volan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#665 - 2016-06-28 13:04:38 UTC
I'm not arguing for or against 'space samurai' but to say that there is no such thing as an easy kill is disingenuous. Warping to a belt and finding a miner not paying attention to local in null is an easy kill. A greedy indy trying to cut through low, webbed and scrammed 15km off the gate is an easy kill. It isn't about whether or not you should be killing them, it's still an easy kill.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#666 - 2016-06-28 13:13:03 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
John Volan wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
...

And when will this 'easy kill' meme stop? There is no such thing as an easy kill - there are just kills. If I want loot or killmails, why should I seek out 'hard kills'? And what would a 'hard kill' be? That doesn't even make any sense.

...

I would say an easy kill is when your target is not shooting back at you.
Ships die everywhere all the time without firing a shot. They get outnumbered, hot-dropped, gate camped, alpha-ed off the field, bubbled, blobbed and bombed when they cannot mount a viable defense. Further, some of the hardest ships to explode that require the most planning and organization to trap and kill, like freighters, can't even fit weapons.

man, have you ever been out of high-sec? Shocked

And yes, that's why 'easy kill' meme does not die. Because even in high-sec people read about low-, 0.0 and WH battles/ganks/drops/etc and see that 'high-sec content' is couple levels below.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Black Pedro
Mine.
#667 - 2016-06-28 13:24:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
John Volan wrote:
I'm not arguing for or against 'space samurai' but to say that there is no such thing as an easy kill is disingenuous. Warping to a belt and finding a miner not paying attention to local in null is an easy kill. A greedy indy trying to cut through low, webbed and scrammed 15km off the gate is an easy kill. It isn't about whether or not you should be killing them, it's still an easy kill.
Those are no more 'easy' than most kills in the game.

But that isn't my main point. The point is that those that have been ganked and have little PvP experience like to throw 'easy kill' as some sort of insult, something you funnily enough you don't find coming out of the mouth of experienced PvPers as often as they know how much of Eve combat are 'easy kills'.

A kill is a kill. Indeed some kills take more risk/effort/luck/skill than others, but that is almost always under the control of the one who gets exploded. And in the case of much of the PvP in this game the 'challenge' level of the kill is secondary to a greater goal. If I am trying to earn some ISK by pirating, I don't care how tough a kill is - in fact I want my victim to make it easy. If I am evicting someone from a wormhole I want, I don't care if I get a "gud fight" or not. If I am trying to take sov, or win a system in FW, the challenge of a particular engagement isn't that important.

Sure, fun fights are always welcome, and some people seek out that challenging fight as their primary goal in Eve, but for most activities in the sandbox whether something is 'easy' or 'hard' is secondary to something else.

Whatever carebears. Use your 'easy kill' meme as justification as why you lost a ship if that makes you feel better. You still lost that ship, and will likely lose another if you don't improve your game to make yourself a harder target to explode.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#668 - 2016-06-28 13:36:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Galaxy Pig
Why are people always trying to disparage our highsec contact? I mean, think what you will of it, but doesn't someone need to be down here killing retrievers? :D


Waiting for:
"Don't get me wrong, I totally support ganking and think it should remain in the game, it's just that every single person who does it is doing it wrong and I hate them. -or they're a pathetic scrub and should feel bad about themselves."

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

Trader20
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#669 - 2016-06-28 14:00:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Trader20
edit
Radkiel
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#670 - 2016-06-28 17:35:48 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Because there is clearly at least one very high profile dev who wants to control the narrative of the game and he doesn't like gankers. In addition he continually lies to the community and makes up BS stories to feed people, but they are just never consistent.



Trump plays EvE?

I'm outta here...
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#671 - 2016-06-28 17:54:00 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Why are people always trying to disparage our highsec contact? I mean, think what you will of it, but doesn't someone need to be down here killing retrievers? :D


Waiting for:
"Don't get me wrong, I totally support ganking and think it should remain in the game, it's just that every single person who does it is doing it wrong and I hate them. -or they're a pathetic scrub and should feel bad about themselves."

Well... You almost right here.

However it's easier: you (high-sec gankers) claim yourself as 'content creators', as 'high-sec owners', as 'new law', etc... This gives people rights to ask you about quality of your 'content', etc....

Should you just say 'crew you guys, i'm having fun blowing sheet' nobody would ever say anything about it. But you chose different path, path of Warrior Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#672 - 2016-06-28 17:55:25 UTC
Algarion Getz wrote:
Bexol Regyri wrote:
I have only been playing eve for about 5 months and started out a high sec miner. One of the things that attracted me to eve was that it was pretty much what I expected of space from all the scifi books I read full of good guys and bad guys and that space is not a safe place. One of the things I found out right away was about 1/2 the players in space were not engaged in the game. There would be an ice belt with 30 people in it, but no one was really there. Their ships just mining away while they did stuff in real life. I almost fell into the same trap but then I met the pirates, as I later found out where called gankers in this game, mercs and griefers. At first I was like these guys are jerks to put it nicely. The more I watched them blow up people the more I realized they are forcing people to stay engaged in the game. At the same time I watched CCP make changes to hamper the high sec content creators and cater people to people that are not actively engaged while undocked. How does that help a healthy community?

so my question is why does it seem like CCP wants to stop or make close to impossible all non PVE highsec content when players have tons of in game tools avoid dying like d-scan, local chat, kills in system on map, etc...?

Content creators LOL

You gankers are just terrible PvPers who want some easy kills. Now you cry because it requires a little bit of effort to kill players in HIGH security space. Pathetic.


If they are terrible...what does that say about their victims. Completely horrible and incompetent? Stupid even?

Maybe before you slag on the guy(s) who blew up your 1.9 billion ISK pod you should consider how that reflects on you?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#673 - 2016-06-28 17:58:46 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
So like almost all kills then, got it.


Yeah, pretty much all kills. Some really bad PvP pilots: guys in stealth bomber gangs who volley or bomb ships off the field. Terrible PvPers.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#674 - 2016-06-28 18:04:58 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
John Volan wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
...

And when will this 'easy kill' meme stop? There is no such thing as an easy kill - there are just kills. If I want loot or killmails, why should I seek out 'hard kills'? And what would a 'hard kill' be? That doesn't even make any sense.

...

I would say an easy kill is when your target is not shooting back at you.
Ships die everywhere all the time without firing a shot. They get outnumbered, hot-dropped, gate camped, alpha-ed off the field, bubbled, blobbed and bombed when they cannot mount a viable defense. Further, some of the hardest ships to explode that require the most planning and organization to trap and kill, like freighters, can't even fit weapons.

This imaginary, space samurai ideal of balanced, 1v1 honourable duels at the sun doesn't exist. Well, perhaps almost never exists in that it almost never happens organically that two sides are completely balanced and even. Underhandedness and stacking the fight in your favour is present in almost all fights in this game.

And given the nature of Eve players, even if there was a perfectly balanced fight, the losing side would still find some way to claim that the fight wasn't fair and their opponents did something dishonourable and were only after 'easy kills'.

Such is Eve.



Just gonna throw this out there...this concept of an honorable space samurai does a huge disservice to samurai from say the warring states period who were practical and common sense warriors and soldiers. If it took an ambush to take on a superior force...you ******* ambushed them. If you tricked your opponent and got a force behind them and can wipe them out...you did that. This notion of bushido was an idea promulgated primarily during the Tokugawa Shogunate to pacify the Samurai and turn them into ******* bureaucrats.

E-bushido? **** that. It has no place in this game.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Crinnfika
Doomheim
#675 - 2016-06-28 19:34:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nobody jetcan mines .


Correction, no solo miners jetcan mine. Large mining fleets still jetcan mine (usually with a MTU) as it's more efficient than having the miners warp to station every time their hold is full. This is particularly true if said mining fleet is using covetors/hulks.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#676 - 2016-06-28 21:00:17 UTC
Crinnfika wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nobody jetcan mines .


Correction, no solo miners jetcan mine. Large mining fleets still jetcan mine (usually with a MTU) as it's more efficient than having the miners warp to station every time their hold is full. This is particularly true if said mining fleet is using covetors/hulks.

Except for all the solo miners who've posted in mining threads in the last few weeks saying they jetcan mine.
Just because it's not the most efficient/sensible way doesn't mean some people don't do it.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#677 - 2016-06-28 21:06:14 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Should you just say 'crew you guys, i'm having fun blowing sheet' nobody would ever say anything about it. But you chose different path, path of Warrior Lol

I am always kind of surprised why it is so much more upsetting to some players if you tell them they where killed for a reason and that they are not a victim of random violence.
Ivon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#678 - 2016-06-29 03:14:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivon
The only reason CCP hasn't nerfed ganking is because they can't figure out how to make war decs engaging content for most of the participants, including the aggressing party.

I think citadels could be key to making war decs interesting. If you could only register a war by having a citadel, things would make more sense. Without a citadel, you should be available as a target of wars, but not be able to make them unless it's mutual.

No poors allowed. They can go skulk about lowsec with the rest of the riffraff.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#679 - 2016-06-29 09:01:28 UTC
For my HTFU friends Roll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Buliki
Publicly Owned Customs Offices
#680 - 2016-06-29 17:16:04 UTC
oh no you don't get to live on the second page