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space gator
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#321 - 2016-04-08 22:23:50 UTC
Please count me in the disliking this daily grind/reward crowd.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#322 - 2016-04-08 22:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
I'm ambivalent about this. I can see what you are trying to do but am not convinced that NPC kills are the way to go. Maybe if you were rewarding activity that would keep new players in the game, such as trying a variety of activities or joining a corp.

SP for site completion would be utterly terrible.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
George Gouillot
MASS
Pandemic Horde
#323 - 2016-04-08 22:29:12 UTC
Come on - you can do better. Every player that logs in @ 1300 or 0100 gets a Fedo.
#pimppcuevenifitkillsthegame
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#324 - 2016-04-08 22:30:38 UTC
and what about the people who arent interested in pve?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#325 - 2016-04-08 22:34:45 UTC
Niraia wrote:
Remember when you were a new pilot, and there were all these big ships in the game, it was all very immersive, so you got really invested and subscribed for years so that some day in the future you could fly them?

I miss that. It's one of the factors that contributed to me paying a subscription for 10 years.

If the game isn't currently rewarding without giving people rewards for playing, then I seriously fear for its future, or at least the future of your most loyal players.

Maybe you should concentrate on making the game better instead?


The majority of fresh play is obviously much less than that.. or there would be no patch to the NPE.

The idea of the game being unrewarding is that fresh play is shown a paywall. "It's supposed to be a sandbox" -- thus, "a better game".

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#326 - 2016-04-08 22:34:55 UTC
Ok. I'll be constructive.

Obviously, the intent behind this massively braindead fucktardedness is that CCP feels EVE lives and dies by the online player count and they want to boost that. To do so, they will bribe players with the one thing that cannot be mechanically acquired in any other way: time, as expressed in SP. They do this by rewarding the most horrible type of gameplay the game has to offer: hunting the most uninteresting type of opponent the entire MMO segment of the games industry has on offer.

I understand the first part: the felt need to inflate numbers (never mind that this last week has already demonstrated with resounding clarity what is needed for that to happen: war; conflict; interaction; action). What makes absolutely no sense whatsoever is everything else, since it is unevenly applied, pointless, incoherent, and unrelated to the activities that demonstrably draw people in.

So how do you achieve your goal without any of that cretinous and short-sighted design incompetence?

Simple: just do the same thing without tying it to any kind of action. During each downtime, tally the accounts that have been online for 15+ minutes since the last downtime. Those accounts get credited with a 10k SP token in their redemption queue, to be applied to any character the player chooses.

Or better yet, don't hand out SP — just realise what it is that actually make people log in and put your effort into improving those parts of the game. Somewhere along the line, you forgot that conflict is what drives the game. Embrace it; improve it; encourage it.
Ripard Teg
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#327 - 2016-04-08 22:35:31 UTC
Just to clarify: the SP will be given only to the character that gets the final blow on the NPC, no matter how many are shooting at it?

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
Eveline Vos
POS Party
Ember Sands
#328 - 2016-04-08 22:36:11 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
and what about the people who arent interested in pve?


It would appear CCP doesn't care about you.

This isn't a sandbox anymore, so you'd better get on the theme-park ride and like it.

/s
Rykki Atruin
Independant Praetorian Corp
#329 - 2016-04-08 22:36:32 UTC
I would *love* to see this:


within a 24 hour period (downtime to downtime) you get rewarded up to a total of 10k SP for being exposed in space (no POS spinning, no AFK cloaking) based on how long you were undocked. You get rewarded for being in space and able to be interacted with by other players. The reward isn't huge, but it is an incentive and it doesn't matter what you are doing, just that you're in space doing *something*

Semi-nomadic corp seeking new and veteran players
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#330 - 2016-04-08 22:39:29 UTC
Rykki Atruin wrote:
I would *love* to see this:


within a 24 hour period (downtime to downtime) you get rewarded up to a total of 10k SP for being exposed in space (no POS spinning, no AFK cloaking) based on how long you were undocked. You get rewarded for being in space and able to be interacted with by other players. The reward isn't huge, but it is an incentive and it doesn't matter what you are doing, just that you're in space doing *something*


..

Why not just give the SP if the player loses a ship.. really reinforcing the enjoyment of that ding sound.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Eveline Vos
POS Party
Ember Sands
#331 - 2016-04-08 22:39:35 UTC
Rykki Atruin wrote:
I would *love* to see this:


within a 24 hour period (downtime to downtime) you get rewarded up to a total of 10k SP for being exposed in space (no POS spinning, no AFK cloaking) based on how long you were undocked. You get rewarded for being in space and able to be interacted with by other players. The reward isn't huge, but it is an incentive and it doesn't matter what you are doing, just that you're in space doing *something*


Cool, I'll just afk my characters in shuttles in backwater nullsec or un-wardec'd HS or something while I'm at work.

Any system implemented will be gamed to high heaven.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#332 - 2016-04-08 22:41:14 UTC
Ive thought about how this will play out for me, and I don't like it. The idea of being "encouraged" to log in 9 characters every day? Ick Ick Ick.

I want to log in to have fun, not because I feel like I'll miss out if I don't. Please do not implement this feature.

If you explain what you are trying to accomplish with this feature, maybe we can come up with better ideas. Just getting more people on line? This is a poor way, as killing one NPC takes little time. People would just log in, do the deed, and leave. The on-line number will barely budge. So, whats going on here?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Maruku Asanari
Deep Space Sanitation Engineers
#333 - 2016-04-08 22:43:58 UTC
Delilah Albertis wrote:
Maruku Asanari wrote:
Oxide Ammar wrote:
I like this idea, only nerds that find themselves self entitled to this game are disapproving.


Care to elaborate?

I think what we feel entitled to isn't the game itself, it's our own time. And by pressuring us to do dailies with something such as SP, it makes us spend it a certain way. The freedom to do what we want within the game at all times is something valued by many players, and part of what makes EVE different.

And we're not nerds, we are to nerds what nerds are to normal people. (Anybody else here know that reference?) Roll


This line of thinking is absurd and ridiculous. No one is pressuring you to do a thing. You're playing this game on your own time to fulfill your enjoyment. It's a bonus. Do you realistically think the entirety of the eve population is going to do this and if you don't it's going to leave you in the dust? Hardly.

The population of eve is too lazy for everyone to be skill farming all the time, most won't care, some will use it so that they can rat better faster, and the players who know wtf about anything know that SP do not translate into you being a better player. There is no super cool advantage someone is going to gain over someone else that can't be waited out a few extra days because farming sucks and my time doing other things is more valuable.

There is way too much emphasis in this thread on press the button get the cheese. Have some self control, enjoy other aspects of the game, that SP bonus? Maybe it'll get you there 2 weeks faster or whatever, hurray. The cost of that is now you're having less fun.

I'll wait the two weeks out. You want to skill farm? Awesome, be my guest, I hope it opens up new ways to enjoy the game for you! The freedom of choice to do either is all that's happening here.


This isn't going to be the only daily added. A feature like this will at least have another reward for:
- PvP kill
- Mining
- Exploration site


and maybe one for:
- industry job starting
- Completing a mission
- Planetary Interaction

So even if the rewards were all the same that's at least 40,000 SP a day, and the PvP one should probably be worth more than the ratting one plus there'll probably be more than the minimal, so you could possibly get more SP this way than you do at the normal rate? (don't know how many we get a day)

And while even then you can argue you don't have to do all that, it still encourages this style of play where you tick the daily boxes off since the incentive is at that point much greater to follow orders than to try think of something unique to do yourself. Some people do dailies since they pop up in their face before they sit down and actually think of what they'd like to do. Mindless, meaningless gameplay is easier to do than anything which requires interaction or creativity from the player, and a reward only compounds this tendency away from a more community focussed style of play.
Oxide Ammar
#334 - 2016-04-08 22:45:08 UTC
Jeez, this is what CCP gets for spoiling players decade who think themselves elitists enough to dictate what comes and goes in a game.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858
Heroes and Villains.
#335 - 2016-04-08 22:45:34 UTC
I feel for those who work at CCP and care for the core principles of the original game who are being instructed to impose these awful changes on the game by the corporate element.

Daily questing for SP in Eve Online?

Where will it stop?

In before CCP offer a subscription model where you pay more to get default enhanced training time like gold in world of tanks.

Concord Approved Trader
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#336 - 2016-04-08 22:45:36 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
and what about the people who arent interested in pve?


They will have to bear with the whole of nullsec, lowsec, wormholes, bounty, wardec and dueling mechanics, factional warfare, capital ships, Citadels, POCOs, and all the other few fucktons of PvP content in the game.

Poor pity you. Don't like PvE and there's so little else to do in game! Roll
Lobster Bisque
PuddinCorp
#337 - 2016-04-08 22:45:51 UTC
I seriously hate this idea.

One of the reasons that EVE appealed to me in the first place is because I'm an adult with a limited amount of time to play the game, and I had all but sworn off MMOs because they were too time consuming. I grew to hate the endless grind of the typical MMO (I've played a few). These are generally games that don't respect my (limited) time.

Then I hear about EVE and it's really different from the standard MMO: you don't have to grind for XP because you'll be training it at the same rate as everyone else while you're busy doing real life stuff. No more mindless fetch quests (okay no one really does courier missions do they?), no more logging in just to do dailies.

It was a great feeling to know that while I was busy with school or work that I wasn't falling behind. My character was still advancing just as quickly as everyone else's!

Busy with midterms / finals at university? No problem put on a long skill and focus on the important stuff. On vacation for two weeks? Gallente Cruiser V here I come! Super busy at work? I should train capitals finally...

The enhanced skill queue features only further enhanced this. Now I don't have to wake up at weird times or move skills in/out of the queue to make sure it keeps going. This is a game that respects my time.

Skill injectors changed the game a bit, but they in no way feel compulsory and have pretty serious diminishing returns, but introducing a feature that makes the player feel like they need to login and perform menial tasks (daily on all 9 chars? No thank you) is taking EVE a step in the wrong direction.

One of the reasons EVE is so appealing to adults, is because it isn't nickle and diming us for our precious time. We can login when we can and do what we want with our time. Enjoy the sandbox! Maybe you don't shoot rats ever, or mine... maybe you just fly around and tour the galaxy? I know I read an article where someone's elderly Grandpa toured space just taking in the scenery. Maybe you spend 80% of your time in spreadsheets or external tools. These are equally valuable activities that CCP isn't going to be able to track and reward.

A system that rewards players who can login every single day (on all their characters no less) and perform a set of very non-sandboxy tasks goes against the spirit of the game. Please rethink this.
Samsara Nolte
Untethered
#338 - 2016-04-08 22:51:48 UTC
Snoooow wrote:
I used to play World of Warcraft before Eve and things like this are the reason I play Eve now.

In World of Warcraft, in order to progress your character as fast as possible, you _have to_ do certain things every day/week like:
* Doing all your Tanaan dailies so you can get reputation as fast as possible.
* Running LFR every week (at least at the start of the patch).
* Running Flex/Heroic/Mything every week.
* Using your daily profession cooldowns every day.
* Claiming the free stuff in your garrison every day.

Yes, you are probably correct that things like 'shoot a rat', 'hack a can', etc will provide a positive benefit to the game by getting more players out in space.

However, I think you're underestimating the negative effects of this change from players who:
* Feel disappointed when they can't log in for a day and miss out on the daily SP.
* Feeling bored/annoyed when they log in when they didn't want to just to kill a rat, hack a can and log off.
* Feel bored/annoyed because they (like all Eve players) optimize things and are on their nth day of logging in every pilot on all of their accounts to kill a single rat instead of doing what they want to do.

I can think of two similar, alternative ideas that I think most Eve players would be okay with.

1: All players under 5m SP gain SP from these daily tasks, but not afterwards. This means that this change will help new players progress faster, but it solves two issues. Not being able to get SP after 5m SP means that you can't extract SP from this, so Vets won't feel like they have to farm SP on all of their characters every day. Not being able to get SP after 5m SP means that newbros won't feel as bad about missing a day because they're just pushing out reaching 5M sp a little further, not missing out on free SP forever.

2: Each opportunity in the opportunities map provides an SP bonus on completion. This means that newbies will experience a more positive reward from doing Opportunities. Although with this solution it is optimal for Vets to do every opportunity on all of their characters, there's a finite limit to how much work they'll have to put in before they can stop feeling forced to do things they don't want to.

In summary, please consider one of the above suggestions which limit the bonus to new players so that Veteran players don't feel forced to do things they don't want to on all of their characters every day. Not all of your players will be in the mood to play your game every day of their lives, and mechanics like this, while they do benefit others by having more pilots in space, just make players feel disappointed for missing out on SP they can never earn, or frustrated when they play when they really want to do something else.


This above mentioned way to implement this feature is the sole and only one i could get behind -
Because i got quite a fair number of people in this game and tried to support them in their first steps, and the one things bothering them the most (bothered the wits out of me when i started too) was the fact, that in takes forever until you can do something worthwhile in eve.
You actually start counting the seconds until your skills complete -
and the proposal from above would help diminsh this unastisfying experience a great deal.
But anything more than this i´m against with every fibre of being - and this comes from one who is practically online every single day ... i´ dont like to be forced to do something.
And giving us 5h of free training time outside of our attribute spec for doing somehting daily is nothing else (for us who live to min max) than to force us and there are way to many downsides to you CCP forcing us to log in - then let´s be honest the EVE community consists of us the ones who practically invented min-maxing - and if i can´t min max, in this case, get SP daily for completing the activities i´m gonna get dissatisfied and when that reaches a certain point your intended incentive to get people to log in will have the opposite effect and i won´t log in eventully never again.
And i certain i´m not the only player that feels that way

- reading this thread to this point already told me i´m not -
I´m not the only one who is gonna lie in bed and think about the missed skillpoints because i wasn´t able to log in for this day ... don´t know what a week where i can´t log in is gonna do ...

So my advice - reconsider this feature especially in this proposed form !
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#339 - 2016-04-08 22:54:48 UTC
Samsara Nolte wrote:

Missing SP seems like a problem? It's a wonder how all those fresh subs feel..

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#340 - 2016-04-08 22:59:26 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours. The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like.


That's not promoting activity, that's a bait to get people to log in (most likely for the sake of important "login" metric), spank a mob and log off. Solo and as quickly as possible.

So if that daily was giving 10k ISK tell me - how many people would lift a finger to even move a mouse to log in ? So if ISK (or LP, or RNG box with T1 module) is not working, how the hell is that promoting any activity ?

But it's not ISK, it's everyone's favorite brain gooo: SP. So many will take the bait "too not lose the most important resource" and diligently rotate through all their accounts and alts, spank a mob and log off as fast as possible - despite hating doing that (and get ready for forum bitching for myriad of reasons). Day by day.

Congratulations, you just created the worst **** polluting today's mmos (because it's near effortless to implement and plays on primitive human weakness) - dailies.

Don't do this, mkay ? If you want to give people SP, find better ways - something more intelligent and EvE fitting than "kill a mob to push XP bar to the right".

And to emphasise: it's not about SP. It's about the cancer called dailies.


And regarding your implementation - 22 hours rotation ? That's the worst imaginable way to do it. Just make it reset at some hour so people can do it whenever the time permits, not in a narrow ever-shrinking 2- hour window.

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl