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Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online

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Raphendyr Nardieu
Avanto
Hole Control
#21 - 2016-02-09 17:35:51 UTC
I need to iterate the tracking camera using C for some time in combat, as the new implementation might be nice there.

Though as wormholer I often have eyes on the holes (ask any CCP worker who plays in wormhles to demostrate it). In this case first thing I do when someone comes to overview (e.g. by coming trought the wormhole) is, right click -> pilot -> show info. In old state this also triggered select to that ship and thus while looking who he was I can see where he warps to.
Officer Pressly
Doomheim
#22 - 2016-02-09 17:55:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Officer Pressly
If you implement it so that it will camera will keep centering on a New selected item, instead of having to reselect tracking on that Object. Alot of annoyance would be gone. Cool
Raphendyr Nardieu
Avanto
Hole Control
#23 - 2016-02-09 18:01:12 UTC
Raphendyr Nardieu wrote:
Conjaq wrote:
I like the idea, and i welcome a new camera. but.....

* The scroll speed when zooming in and out, is uncontrollable
* The camera movement orbit function feels sluggish....



I'm pretty sure the camre speed effects the zoom speed. I'm currently going with x1.6 speed and it feels quite ok. This also removes most of the "sluggish".


Need to revert this statement as zooming speed was raised while kiiping the rotation speed the same. Thus 1.6x is too fast for zooming while being nice for turning the camera. Would it be possible to get 2 sliders, one for rotate and for zoom?
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#24 - 2016-02-09 18:01:36 UTC
Hey, not to be mean but you did test this tracking thing before you released it right? I would like this beta feature selectable at the very least.

Thank you

@lunettelulu7
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#25 - 2016-02-09 18:05:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
+1 for restoration of the tracking camera. I don't see why this was taken out...

Much like the tab roll up function being removed (Can we get someone to even comment on that thread? ) this is a change makes no sense. It feels like basic usability is being taken away for no reason.

We need the camera at 1:1 for basic functionality before a large percent of the player base is going to even consider using it full time.

Eye candy is all well and good but if basics are taken out in favour, sorry bad change IMO.

I just hope that the dynamic FOV won't make me sick by just rotating the camera like it did in the early deployments. Won't be able to justify logging if everytime I try to play I'm nearly at the point of nausea.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood
Aaron J Brewster
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2016-02-09 18:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron J Brewster
CCPlease,

Please restore the set parent and set interest function. Also, allow for me to right click on an item and select it too. Removing the Set Interest and moving it to 'Track' in the selected item (Which doesn't work well at all) but leaving the Set Parent on right click menu is a totally trivial change.

Not really possible to record nice shots of fights any more :(

Thanks friends
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#27 - 2016-02-09 18:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Leonardo Adami
Most of the features are really sluggish for me and do not enhancey gameplay. So I'm not a fan, but most importantly and I cannot stress this enough. Please please add the tracking feature back, being able to hit "C" and click on what I need to while my camera turns in that direction is amazing.
Elenna Ailatan
Muse Tech
#28 - 2016-02-09 18:35:42 UTC
Please give us back a tracking camera with the same functionality as the old one, until then I don't want to use then new camera, as it makes my gameplay experience much less enjoyable. Adding nice features is good, but please don't remove working features just to add the new stuff.
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#29 - 2016-02-09 18:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
Redacted

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#30 - 2016-02-09 18:52:12 UTC
Dominous Nolen wrote:
Leonardo Adami wrote:
that direction is amazing.


IMO required... Just my two isk.

hes saying he liked the old one

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Joan Andedare
Roving Guns Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#31 - 2016-02-09 19:00:00 UTC
the new camera suffers from the same problems as the new map: functinality is sacrificed to make things look better.

please stop going in that direction and focus on producing things that work and do what players wnat to do with them. the game isn't new, there is lots of feedback available and while shiny new stuff might make the game more atractive to new players for a while, in the end a game that is crappy to play is not one that can retain its players.

my two biggest issues with the new camera are the missing tracking functionality (seriously, what were you thinking?) and the fact that the camera has massive inertia and feels very sluggish.
Cade Kenobi
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#32 - 2016-02-09 19:05:45 UTC
I have two issues with the new camera. Number one is that it feels sluggish to use compared to what we have now. As was said earlier maybe we could have two sliders one for rotate and one for zoom.

Now the second and main issue I have is can you please please please bring back the option for me to hit C and then just click on what a want to track in my overview, having to hold C down for everything I want to track is just a total no no as I rely on being able to quickly move between objects when I'm d scanning. This single thing is what makes the camera unusable for me at the moment.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2016-02-09 19:15:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Khan Wrenth
First, this needs to be said.

Do not, under any circumstances, get rid of the old camera.

I remember once reading a science article about some doctors/scientists trying to create some eyewear for blind folks. Think of it like the "Geordi La Forge" glasses. Well, they specifically mentioned that you have to be able to get the images from the camera to the brain ultra-quick, because lag caused nausea.

You introduced a camera that purposefully lags behind the commands imput to it. Swinging the camera around feels like trying to steady a camera on a freshly waxed dance floor while wearing only socks. This is probably why people are feeling nauseous.

That said, the new camera functions CAN be fun and interesting. I like it as an additional option so long as it doesn't replace the current camera. It doesn't matter that the old camera was based on the old code, it works and works perfectly. If you need to re-write it to update it with new code, okay that is understandable, just don't pull a "hey let's strip custom color functionality from the HUD" stunt like they've done before. That mistake still hasn't been corrected, nor have they ever talked about when they'll get around to doing so.

However this new camera setup isn't done correctly.-
Alt+1 should be the old, default, functional camera.
Alt 2-4 should be the new, fun, interesting camera functions.
Why is Alt+4 the New Eden store? I do NOT need that quick-keyed.

And yes, this means migrating the camera toggle from the escape menu/general settings, to actually having it on the HUD where people can actually use it and switch between modes seamlessly.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Chrome Veinss
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2016-02-09 19:15:49 UTC
without the ability to track objects in space this camera is 100% useless to me, not using it until it has the same basic functionality as the old one
Lonan O'Labhradha
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2016-02-09 19:25:36 UTC
Regarding the First Person Camera, the number one necessary feature to make it useful is the ability to TURN YOUR HEAD. To that end, it should have "tracking" and "look at" just like the other cameras.

Secondly, the HUD needs the things any manual fly pilot would want--basically, if I have a column on the overview, I also might want that data to display with the object I'm tracking so that I don't have to look away from my target in order to see things like Angular Velocity.

Thirdly, since relative velocity/position are the most important factors in manual piloting, the "ray" that you normally see between you and your selected target with the other cameras is useful here, too.

Fourth, there has to be some way of noting relative distance with other objects--the most obvious is relative icon size. Icons might change in size based on which of the "spheres" they are in on the tactical overlay--an intuitive abstract view of the tactical overlay if you will.

Lastly, if you really want it to be cool and useful, relative velocities can be reported with iconic vector arrows pointing out from the various icons. For instance, the ship icon inside a little circle with a 3D arrow pointing out from it.
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#36 - 2016-02-09 19:26:20 UTC
also the tactical overlay now shuts off when you session change it's really annoying it should just stay on all the time like before
Inuro Enderas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2016-02-09 19:35:26 UTC
I am really not an expert at such things, but I can say that I got a headache... due to that expert stuff mentioned above. Aside from that tracking is useless if I have to hold C.
I actually think the first person camera could be used to make some cool videos if... you know... I could turn my head.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#38 - 2016-02-09 19:40:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
feedback after some testing (tested older versions before so thats not the first time)

it improved a lot, and thanks for the disable dynamic FOV and disable ship offset check boxes.

tracking cam (C) while orbit cam is on:
1) if i hold C and click around in the overview the tracking cam works similarly to the old tracking cam. However, i mapped the dscan button to the middle mouse button, and whenever i click the middle mouse button while holding C, the tracking cam stops working. So i can't use the mouse for dscanning ATM. (which is the reason why i switched back to hilmar cam after the testing)

2) the "moves ship out of the way feature" needs some tweaking i think. It seems to throw the ship from left to right while dscanning and it should in my opinion at no point move the ship completely out of your screen (happens when you are zoomed in). Maybe give us another check box to disable that ;)

orbit cam zoom:
i am using an old logitech revolution with stepless mouse wheel (all new logitech gaming mice seem to have the same feature too). With the hilmar cam zoom worked very nice with it since the zoom steps where so small. On the new cam i enabled scroll steps to make it work better since it seems to be designed with a classic mouse in mind. Thats a minor point since i can make it work, but since metal mouse wheels with bearings are awesome i preferred how the hilmar cam zoom behaved.

tactical cam:
a visual as reference where the camera is orbiting around is missing. You can zooom out, zoom in, translate the orbit center but you don't know where it is. It used to be your ship or the center of the tactical overlay, but since you can detach it from your ship there is no visual indication where your camera orbit center is.

lasso select:
this needs some more tweaks too i believe. Because otherwise you will literally lock EVERYTHING in the rectangle area. Wrecks, drones, LCOs, that little citadel in the background, everything. I don't have a solution for that but it has to be somehow a bit smarter or configurable. So that you can limit it for selecting only ships for example. Or only drones, or only wrecks. (hotkey for ships only selection? if there are no ships it falls back to "everything" selection?)


thats it for now

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#39 - 2016-02-09 20:01:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Quote:
Since changes to fundamental parts of core gameplay systems can be delicate, we’ve decided to keep the option of reverting to the old camera for about 1 month as of now

I just read this with horror. So I make myself very clear here: GET. RID. OF. THAT. ZOOM. INERTIAL. It is useless, it is counterproductive, it is disorienting, it makes the useage of the camera a chore and delays display of the information the camera is supposed to display. It is a bad idea in the maps, it is also a bad idea in the camera. GET RID OF IT! This camera is used for combat and proper fleet positioning, not for capturing a movie. Evil

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lord Jester
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2016-02-09 20:47:28 UTC
Just noticed something...the new camera does not keep the tactical overlay on when changing from 1 to another..very annoying and would be great if a small fix was placed on the game that kept this overlay on when changing from 1 camera view to the other views