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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Balancing bumping and looting mechanics

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Mag's
Azn Empire
#821 - 2016-02-04 18:24:13 UTC
Mazzara wrote:
its funny watching all the bumpers come out crying that, their tactic is balanced and counterable, but yet whine in the AFK cloaky forum about how scared they are in null sec when someone is afk cloaked, come afk cloaking is just as counterable as bumping.
You must be new here. Welcome to the forum. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#822 - 2016-02-04 18:24:57 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

AG: "this is broken it needs fixing and has no consequences"
most of us: "it's not broken, there are plenty of ways to avoid it"
AG "I don't want to use those ways because they have consequences"


The thread nothing, I think that's the TL;DR of anti ganking as a whole.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Iain Cariaba
#823 - 2016-02-04 18:26:53 UTC
Mazzara wrote:
its funny watching all the bumpers come out crying that, their tactic is balanced and counterable, but yet whine in the AFK cloaky forum about how scared they are in null sec when someone is afk cloaked, come afk cloaking is just as counterable as bumping.

Actually, if you go read those AFK cloaky threads, I, the established PvEer, was supporting the AFK cloakers, even when I lived in nullsec as a lowly renter. Just as now, when I'm living in highsec as a PvEer, I support those who actually use the tools given to them to effect the game.
Iain Cariaba
#824 - 2016-02-04 18:28:06 UTC
bigbud skunkafella wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
Also, this thread is so much better than the Likes and Get Likes Thread for like whoring.

Gold!

5,511 likes placed in this thread as of this post. Anyone feeling adventurous to dig through 47 pages and find how many went to the anti-bumping crowd?


hmm , and mass upvoting by certain elements has never been a thing....? Pirate

Definitely not by me. If I disagree with any of a post, I won't like it.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#825 - 2016-02-04 18:30:35 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Mazzara wrote:
its funny watching all the bumpers come out crying that, their tactic is balanced and counterable, but yet whine in the AFK cloaky forum about how scared they are in null sec when someone is afk cloaked, come afk cloaking is just as counterable as bumping.

Actually, if you go read those AFK cloaky threads, I, the established PvEer, was supporting the AFK cloakers, even when I lived in nullsec as a lowly renter. Just as now, when I'm living in highsec as a PvEer, I support those who actually use the tools given to them to effect the game.
Well I think he's simply new here and not yet fully upto speed. Hence why he got that so wrong. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#826 - 2016-02-04 18:42:59 UTC
Bella Jennie wrote:
CAPTA1N OBVIOUS wrote:
Quote:
You add nothing of substance other than contrary comments & wild speculation as to my gameplay.



But that's what you've obviously been doing. Rank hypocrite.


Obviously, you are a terrible shiptoaster and this thread is terrible and should be burnt to the ground.


Obviously.


must I be a "shiptoaster"?

why must my gameplay match YOUR criteria?

Do you even realize how INTOLERANT you make yourself seem?


Play the way you want.

I'll play the way I want. However, the rules of the game do not preclude me from doing things that bring us into interaction...even things you may not like. There is literally noting in the rules to say I cannot shoot you anywhere in the game or that I cannot bump your ship. Nothing. You may not like, but that is the way the game is, and always has been.

Here is CCP in their own words,

Quote:

EVE is a game. Accept the fact that you’ll lose your ship and the cargo in it. You’ll be set back a minor amount. Don’t worry – you’ll be back up and running in no time! But be cautious, if you put all your eggs into one basket. One often cited rule is: "Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose."[1]

5.3 SOME PLAYER JUST SHOT ME; IS THAT ALLOWED?
In EVE Online, any player may attack any other player if they choose to, no matter where they happen to be. This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core. If the other pilot had no right to attack you then CONCORD will track him down and punish him for his crimes, so long as the attack took place in high security space. If the attack took place in low or null security space, then it would have been down to you to protect yourself since you may be attacked freely and CONCORD cannot intervene in those areas of space. You will also need to bear in mind that if you commit an act of aggression or other illegal act against another pilot (such as stealing from them or attacking without cause), any pilot can then attack you with impunity, anywhere at all, for a short period of time thereafter.[2]


The fact is you are quite simply wrong here.

Play however you like. I'll play however I like and if that means I do something to you in game you don't like...well too bad.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Bella Jennie
Doomheim
#827 - 2016-02-04 18:48:55 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Bella Jennie wrote:
CAPTA1N OBVIOUS wrote:
Quote:
You add nothing of substance other than contrary comments & wild speculation as to my gameplay.



But that's what you've obviously been doing. Rank hypocrite.


Obviously, you are a terrible shiptoaster and this thread is terrible and should be burnt to the ground.


Obviously.


must I be a "shiptoaster"?

why must my gameplay match YOUR criteria?

Do you even realize how INTOLERANT you make yourself seem?


Play the way you want.

I'll play the way I want. However, the rules of the game do not preclude me from doing things that bring us into interaction...even things you may not like. There is literally noting in the rules to say I cannot shoot you anywhere in the game or that I cannot bump your ship. Nothing. You may not like, but that is the way the game is, and always has been.

Here is CCP in their own words,

Quote:

EVE is a game. Accept the fact that you’ll lose your ship and the cargo in it. You’ll be set back a minor amount. Don’t worry – you’ll be back up and running in no time! But be cautious, if you put all your eggs into one basket. One often cited rule is: "Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose."[1]

5.3 SOME PLAYER JUST SHOT ME; IS THAT ALLOWED?
In EVE Online, any player may attack any other player if they choose to, no matter where they happen to be. This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core. If the other pilot had no right to attack you then CONCORD will track him down and punish him for his crimes, so long as the attack took place in high security space. If the attack took place in low or null security space, then it would have been down to you to protect yourself since you may be attacked freely and CONCORD cannot intervene in those areas of space. You will also need to bear in mind that if you commit an act of aggression or other illegal act against another pilot (such as stealing from them or attacking without cause), any pilot can then attack you with impunity, anywhere at all, for a short period of time thereafter.[2]


The fact is you are quite simply wrong here.

Play however you like. I'll play however I like and if that means I do something to you in game you don't like...well too bad.


Not so fast...

Shoot me in HISEC and you're toast..
- I'm toast and you're toast.. I'm totally fine with that..

BUMPING is an attack if it is applied to prevent me from warping..
- that should make you toast as well.. but I'll be happy if you're just tagged.

Again, I'm talking HISEC only.

this game currently favors the DOUCHEBAGS
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#828 - 2016-02-04 18:51:13 UTC
Bella Jennie wrote:

BUMPING is an attack if it is applied to prevent me from warping..


No it isn't, and no it doesn't.

Your warp engines are not locked out whatsoever.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
bigbud skunkafella
Utama Incorporated
Astral Alliance
#829 - 2016-02-04 18:52:00 UTC
''something something hauling is 99.9 % safe....''

gankers freighter wrecks statistically were probably 99.9 % safe from going pop, didn't stop Warr Akini and friends on csm from cryiing to ccp to change wreck hps though did it?
Iain Cariaba
#830 - 2016-02-04 18:55:57 UTC
bigbud skunkafella wrote:
''something something hauling is 99.9 % safe....''

gankers freighter wrecks statistically were probably 99.9 % safe from going pop, didn't stop Warr Akini and friends on csm from cryiing to ccp to change wreck hps though did it?

Evidence?

The story I was told about that had more to do with nullsec and lowsec tactics than freighter ganking.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#831 - 2016-02-04 18:56:17 UTC
bigbud skunkafella wrote:
''something something hauling is 99.9 % safe....''

gankers freighter wrecks statistically were probably 99.9 % safe from going pop, didn't stop Warr Akini and friends on csm from cryiing to ccp to change wreck hps though did it?
I know you would love to have that change linked solely to ganking and freighter wrecks. But both you and I know, that's not the case.

I see you avoided the questions again.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
bigbud skunkafella
Utama Incorporated
Astral Alliance
#832 - 2016-02-04 18:57:46 UTC
@ Enabran' Tain ,''Example: Bumper bumps an orca 5 times in 30 minutes, he gets a suspect timer and can be shot. ''

thats too open to abuse, the conditions for receiving a penalty need to be defined so as to completely eliminate accidental collisions , see my posts on this above.

i agree there is no reason that something couldnt be coded quite easily to create some sort of consequence for bumping , particularly for extended periods .
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#833 - 2016-02-04 18:58:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bella Jennie wrote:
BUMPING is an attack if it is applied to prevent me from warping..
Wrong, so very wrong. Bumping doesn't prevent you from warping, it prevents you from aligning.

Preventing you from warping absolutely involves the use of an offensive module, which rightly flags you in empire space as a criminal, preventing you from aligning does not.

Quote:
- that should make you toast as well.. but I'll be happy if you're just tagged.
I believe you proposed a criminal flag for bumping, am I correct?

Do you know what the consequences for gaining a criminal flag in hisec are?

Quote:
Again, I'm talking HISEC only.
That's irrelevant, the flagging system also applies all the way down to empire systems with a status of 0.1, as such we have to consider the effect any proposed changes would have in all of the areas covered by the crimewatch mechanic.

You're looking at a small segment of one of those picture puzzles, we're looking at the whole thing.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Enabran' Tain
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#834 - 2016-02-04 19:02:26 UTC
Quote:

Solution: Create a game mechanic that works like this: If one player bumps another a certain number of times within a certain amount of time, the aggressor gets a suspect timer for just the aggressed and everyone in his fleet, to attack.

Example: Bumper bumps an orca 5 times in 30 minutes, he gets a suspect timer and can be shot.

Conclusion: There is no instance or reason someone could bump into someone, outside their fleet, 5 times in 30 minutes unless it was on purpose.


bigbud skunkafella wrote:
@ Enabran' Tain ,''Example: Bumper bumps an orca 5 times in 30 minutes, he gets a suspect timer and can be shot. ''

thats too open to abuse, the conditions for receiving a penalty need to be defined so as to completely eliminate accidental collisions , see my posts on this above.

i agree there is no reason that something couldnt be coded quite easily to create some sort of consequence for bumping , particularly for extended periods .


It wasent explain why its open to abuse. The conditions we're defined.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#835 - 2016-02-04 19:02:50 UTC
Bella Jennie wrote:


Not so fast...

Shoot me in HISEC and you're toast..
- I'm toast and you're toast.. I'm totally fine with that..

BUMPING is an attack if it is applied to prevent me from warping..
- that should make you toast as well.. but I'll be happy if you're just tagged.

Again, I'm talking HISEC only.



You should re-read what I wrote. I did not say shooting you is not without consequences. I said I could do it. If I am willing to face the consequences then I'll shoot you. Nothing in the game will stop me. CCP does not consider it a bad thing, in fact they consider it a Good Thing™. The game was designed this way on purpose.

Bumping is not an attack. It does no damage to your ship. It does not interfere with your ships warp drives, your ships engines, or anything else. All it does it knock you off alignment. As such it does not cause any kind of flag. It works this way on purpose.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#836 - 2016-02-04 19:11:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
All of this talk about how there should be consequences for bumpers, and not one of the people talking about it is willing to grow a pair and provide those consequences using the tools that exist to enable them to do so.

Why is that, is it because they don't like the consequences, of which they're so fond of spouting off about, of doing so? Are they in possession of a large mouth but no trousers? Are they just plain unsuited to be playing a game of this nature?

Answers in the form of amusing memes appreciated, antimatter answers also welcome Pirate

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
bigbud skunkafella
Utama Incorporated
Astral Alliance
#837 - 2016-02-04 19:12:00 UTC
Enabran' Tain wrote:
Quote:

Solution: Create a game mechanic that works like this: If one player bumps another a certain number of times within a certain amount of time, the aggressor gets a suspect timer for just the aggressed and everyone in his fleet, to attack.

Example: Bumper bumps an orca 5 times in 30 minutes, he gets a suspect timer and can be shot.

Conclusion: There is no instance or reason someone could bump into someone, outside their fleet, 5 times in 30 minutes unless it was on purpose.


bigbud skunkafella wrote:
@ Enabran' Tain ,''Example: Bumper bumps an orca 5 times in 30 minutes, he gets a suspect timer and can be shot. ''

thats too open to abuse, the conditions for receiving a penalty need to be defined so as to completely eliminate accidental collisions , see my posts on this above.

i agree there is no reason that something couldnt be coded quite easily to create some sort of consequence for bumping , particularly for extended periods .


It wasent explain why its open to abuse. The conditions we're defined.



ok, going from what you've posted above, though u may have fleshed it out in other posts which i've not seen--

a battleship undocks from jita , in doing so bumps an indy/orca/freighter , 1 hit, they both then travel to amarr the battleship pilot is at keyboard but distracted occasionally, so intermittently falls behind then catches up to the ship that he bumped on undock, hitting it 5 times en route, unfortunately for him the 5th time was in niarja as he lands on madirmilire gate....
bigbud skunkafella
Utama Incorporated
Astral Alliance
#838 - 2016-02-04 19:27:25 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
bigbud skunkafella wrote:
''something something hauling is 99.9 % safe....''

gankers freighter wrecks statistically were probably 99.9 % safe from going pop, didn't stop Warr Akini and friends on csm from cryiing to ccp to change wreck hps though did it?

Evidence?

The story I was told about that had more to do with nullsec and lowsec tactics than freighter ganking.


well yes , you can choose to believe that if you wish...

"Sion Kumitomo said on Twitter
The original idea was Warr Akini's, and both then Goonswarm CSM reps pushed it. Other CSM's supported it as well."
Top Guac
Doomheim
#839 - 2016-02-04 19:31:31 UTC
I think, if a freighter jumps 5 gates and doesn't use webs even once, the freighter should go suspect.

He's clearly completely careless and deliberately baiting other players into wanting to shoot him and that's total douchebag play.

Risk free hauling shouldn't be allowed and anyone that does it is a total douche. Make them suspec so they can be killed.
Iain Cariaba
#840 - 2016-02-04 19:35:54 UTC
bigbud skunkafella wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
bigbud skunkafella wrote:
''something something hauling is 99.9 % safe....''

gankers freighter wrecks statistically were probably 99.9 % safe from going pop, didn't stop Warr Akini and friends on csm from cryiing to ccp to change wreck hps though did it?

Evidence?

The story I was told about that had more to do with nullsec and lowsec tactics than freighter ganking.


well yes , you can choose to believe that if you wish...

"Sion Kumitomo said on Twitter
The original idea was Warr Akini's, and both then Goonswarm CSM reps pushed it. Other CSM's supported it as well."

Do you have a list of those CSMs?

If you notice, the buff to wreck hp goes across the board, into hulls that you cannot fly in highsec. I'm thinking my version, which comes from those who participate in what Bella refers to as douchery, is probably a bit more accurate than an "I'm a twit" post.