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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Balancing bumping and looting mechanics

First post
Author
Mag's
Azn Empire
#341 - 2016-01-31 01:44:12 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Seems there's still no clear reason why my Freighter pilot deserves special treatment via protection from bumping.
Seeing as my freighter pilot has been in far less risk than Mag's ever has, I tend to agree. Many trips, never a loss.

So going by the risk table used by the AG crowd, shouldn't webbing and hauling get nerfed?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#342 - 2016-01-31 01:44:42 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Kinda what I thought, but it's late and I thought I'd ask. Lol

Well, hopefully that Kaarous tends to make stuff up and deny facts while also basing his behaviour on fact that I'm not in his 'team' (apparently I'm a hateful angsty carebear).
I don't care about all that tbh, I just wondered what that post was meant to prove.

Well, basically that at least a part of his arguments were invalid due to things which have nothing to do with actual gameplay mechanics.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#343 - 2016-01-31 01:45:34 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Seems there's still no clear reason why my Freighter pilot deserves special treatment via protection from bumping.
Seeing as my freighter pilot has been in far less risk than Mag's ever has, I tend to agree. Many trips, never a loss.

So going by the risk table used by the AG crowd, shouldn't webbing and hauling get nerfed?


Don't forget mining and exploration.

And yeah, my freighter alt has never lost her ship, nor come in any danger of it. But then I use webs and scout my gates, and I also bought her a handy dandy permit from an approved agent of the New Order of Highsec. The best tank that isk can buy.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#344 - 2016-01-31 01:46:32 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Seems there's still no clear reason why my Freighter pilot deserves special treatment via protection from bumping.
Seeing as my freighter pilot has been in far less risk than Mag's ever has, I tend to agree. Many trips, never a loss.

So going by the risk table used by the AG crowd, shouldn't webbing and hauling get nerfed?

Wasn't hauling nerfed when freighters got low slots (choice - tank vs capacity)?
As for webbing, since it is not a 100% counter to bumping in reality I'd have nothing against its removal (just do make a viable proposal for that).
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#345 - 2016-01-31 01:46:33 UTC
You know, I'm fine with somebody who wants to be a "white knight" and is willing to put together a gang to gank a bumping ship. In fact, I'd say, "Awesome look at the beauty of emergence and players who are willing to do things that people wouldn't normally expect." Instead we get these whiny puss buckets who think they should be lauded for their behavior instead of deriving satisfaction from simply having fun and making the game more competitive.

Want to be a white knight? All you have to do is get a gang together that can gank the bumping ship. HS carebears should have the sec status and the skills to get into a T2 gank catalyst and make this totally viable...but HS carebears are, in the end, sh**lers who cannot abide the notion of doing something where CONCORD might destroy their ships.

It is not unreasonable for some players to regard these HS players as contemptible as they are not willing to do what their opponents are wiling to do, even in a limited sense.

Hell even if you are not willing to gank other players at least have the balls and the willingness to get into repping fleets...but no, you are too damn greedy to give up your own personal ISK harvesting to help a fellow HS player.

So we look at CODE. and other ganking groups and we see a high degree of cooperation, coordination an teamwork. We look to the HS victims of ganking and we get whining, crying, and complaints about how unfair things are...when there clearly exist in game solutions to their problems.

My only conclusion is: **** the HS victims of ganking groups.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#346 - 2016-01-31 01:47:42 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Seems there's still no clear reason why my Freighter pilot deserves special treatment via protection from bumping.
Seeing as my freighter pilot has been in far less risk than Mag's ever has, I tend to agree. Many trips, never a loss.

So going by the risk table used by the AG crowd, shouldn't webbing and hauling get nerfed?

Wasn't hauling nerfed when freighters got low slots (choice - tank vs capacity)?
As for webbing, since it is not a 100% counter to bumping in reality I'd have nothing against its removal (just do make a viable proposal for that).



Seriously....you are asking for the removal of webbing freighters?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#347 - 2016-01-31 01:48:18 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:

Wasn't hauling nerfed when freighters got low slots (choice - tank vs capacity)?


Does their gameplay have any risk in it that doesn't come from other players?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#348 - 2016-01-31 01:49:29 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Whoops, I didn't block your posts.
So, just to prove you, once again, wrong - one example which has been reported: https://zkillboard.com/character/95727954/ (-5.2 according to Eve Who).
So, by now you've been proven to be:

a) liar
b) denying facts (link above)
c) prejudiced towards folks who don't subscribe to your worldview
d) who knows what else

In a perfect world right about now you'd stop spewing your angsty and hateful retoric, but I doubt that will happen. Do carry on.
Sorry, but what was this post meant to prove?


Nothing?
Kinda what I thought, but it's late and I thought I'd ask. Lol

Well, hopefully that Kaarous tends to make stuff up and deny facts while also basing his behaviour on fact that I'm not in his 'team' (apparently I'm a hateful angsty carebear).


What exactly has Kaarous made up?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Mag's
Azn Empire
#349 - 2016-01-31 01:49:35 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I don't care about all that tbh, I just wondered what that post was meant to prove.

Well, basically that at least a part of his arguments were invalid due to things which have nothing to do with actual gameplay mechanics.
Well I must saying going on past personal experience, the most vitriolic communications tends to come from those claiming to play the 'Good Guy'. But I digress.

I would still like to know about that post. You've not really answered the question tbh.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#350 - 2016-01-31 01:49:36 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
You know, I'm fine with somebody who wants to be a "white knight" and is willing to put together a gang to gank a bumping ship. In fact, I'd say, "Awesome look at the beauty of emergence and players who are willing to do things that people wouldn't normally expect." Instead we get these whiny puss buckets who think they should be lauded for their behavior instead of deriving satisfaction from simply having fun and making the game more competitive.

Want to be a white knight? All you have to do is get a gang together that can gank the bumping ship. HS carebears should have the sec status and the skills to get into a T2 gank catalyst and make this totally viable...but HS carebears are, in the end, sh**lers who cannot abide the notion of doing something where CONCORD might destroy their ships.

It is not unreasonable for some players to regard these HS players as contemptible as they are not willing to do what their opponents are wiling to do, even in a limited sense.

Hell even if you are not willing to gank other players at least have the balls and the willingness to get into repping fleets...but no, you are too damn greedy to give up your own personal ISK harvesting to help a fellow HS player.


All I can respond to this post of yours is: LOL. Can't be bothered explaining why, sorry buddy.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#351 - 2016-01-31 01:49:46 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

Seriously....you are asking for the removal of webbing freighters?


It's a fairly typical carebear fallacy, this time of totalitarianism.

In this, they accidentally reveal their true goals, because they view any safety that isn't 100% as worthless. So long as there is any risk whatsoever, they will never be satisfied.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#352 - 2016-01-31 01:52:26 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

What exactly has Kaarous made up?

He made up that I publicly supported RL threats. He claimed that I made up recycled alts thingy. He stated quite clearly that he doesn't believe anything someone from other groups claims. What else you need drawn?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#353 - 2016-01-31 01:53:02 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
You know, I'm fine with somebody who wants to be a "white knight" and is willing to put together a gang to gank a bumping ship. In fact, I'd say, "Awesome look at the beauty of emergence and players who are willing to do things that people wouldn't normally expect." Instead we get these whiny puss buckets who think they should be lauded for their behavior instead of deriving satisfaction from simply having fun and making the game more competitive.

Want to be a white knight? All you have to do is get a gang together that can gank the bumping ship. HS carebears should have the sec status and the skills to get into a T2 gank catalyst and make this totally viable...but HS carebears are, in the end, sh**lers who cannot abide the notion of doing something where CONCORD might destroy their ships.

It is not unreasonable for some players to regard these HS players as contemptible as they are not willing to do what their opponents are wiling to do, even in a limited sense.

Hell even if you are not willing to gank other players at least have the balls and the willingness to get into repping fleets...but no, you are too damn greedy to give up your own personal ISK harvesting to help a fellow HS player.


All I can respond to this post of yours is: LOL. Can't be bothered explaining why, sorry buddy.


That is it? You can't do anything better than "LOL"....how completely pathetic.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#354 - 2016-01-31 01:54:14 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

What exactly has Kaarous made up?

He made up that I publicly supported RL threats. He claimed that I made up recycled alts thingy. He stated quite clearly that he doesn't believe anything someone from other groups claims. What else you need drawn?


Wut? LInks por favor?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#355 - 2016-01-31 01:54:46 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Seems there's still no clear reason why my Freighter pilot deserves special treatment via protection from bumping.
Seeing as my freighter pilot has been in far less risk than Mag's ever has, I tend to agree. Many trips, never a loss.

So going by the risk table used by the AG crowd, shouldn't webbing and hauling get nerfed?

Wasn't hauling nerfed when freighters got low slots (choice - tank vs capacity)?
As for webbing, since it is not a 100% counter to bumping in reality I'd have nothing against its removal (just do make a viable proposal for that).



Seriously....you are asking for the removal of webbing freighters?

No I'm not. Mag suggested it, I have nothing against it, but I'm not asking for it. Clearer now?
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#356 - 2016-01-31 02:00:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Teckos Pech wrote:
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

What exactly has Kaarous made up?

He made up that I publicly supported RL threats. He claimed that I made up recycled alts thingy. He stated quite clearly that he doesn't believe anything someone from other groups claims. What else you need drawn?


Wut? LInks por favor?


Here's the death threats part https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6306176#post6306176 (EDIT2: Ok, link works now)
The rest is in past two-three pages (and not as serious as this crap is) so find it yourself.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#357 - 2016-01-31 02:01:14 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
He claimed that I made up recycled alts thingy.


You did. You claimed it was alts used for ganking with negative sec status.

All you proved was one character in Doomheim, which means nothing.


Quote:

He stated quite clearly that he doesn't believe anything someone from other groups claims.


Nope. Not "other groups", I get along well with a lot of people, actually.

YOUR group, on the other hand...

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#358 - 2016-01-31 02:02:00 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Seems there's still no clear reason why my Freighter pilot deserves special treatment via protection from bumping.
Seeing as my freighter pilot has been in far less risk than Mag's ever has, I tend to agree. Many trips, never a loss.

So going by the risk table used by the AG crowd, shouldn't webbing and hauling get nerfed?

Wasn't hauling nerfed when freighters got low slots (choice - tank vs capacity)?
As for webbing, since it is not a 100% counter to bumping in reality I'd have nothing against its removal (just do make a viable proposal for that).
That nerf was requested by your side and it was in fact the gankers that warned pilots that it would result in a nerf. Hardly something that can be laid at our feet now is it? What they wanted was fittings to be safer, plus the same ship. What they got was a ship that didn't perform as well as before.

Since nothing should be 100%, I don't see your point. But webbing does remove the chance of being bumped to almost as near to that, as not worth arguing over.

Plus I'm not the one wanting change here. I'm merely pointing out the irony, of using the risk argument. Just as it's use regarding bumping. If it's so risk free, then create risk or use that so called risk free mechanic yourself.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#359 - 2016-01-31 02:03:08 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:


So now you're a liar again.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#360 - 2016-01-31 02:04:34 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Seems there's still no clear reason why my Freighter pilot deserves special treatment via protection from bumping.
Seeing as my freighter pilot has been in far less risk than Mag's ever has, I tend to agree. Many trips, never a loss.

So going by the risk table used by the AG crowd, shouldn't webbing and hauling get nerfed?

Wasn't hauling nerfed when freighters got low slots (choice - tank vs capacity)?
As for webbing, since it is not a 100% counter to bumping in reality I'd have nothing against its removal (just do make a viable proposal for that).
That nerf was requested by your side and it was in fact the gankers that warned pilots that it would result in a nerf. Hardly something that can be laid at our feet now is it? What they wanted was fittings to be safer, plus the same ship. What they got was a ship that didn't perform as well as before.

Since nothing should be 100%, I don't see your point. But webbing does remove the chance of being bumped to almost as near to that, as not worth arguing over.

Plus I'm not the one wanting change here. I'm merely pointing out the irony, of using the risk argument. Just as it's use regarding bumping. If it's so risk free, then create risk or use that so called risk free mechanic yourself.


And all I'm trying to discuss is how silly bumping as an aggression free warp disruption can be in hisec + the rather un-intuitive nature of DST looting. Nothing more, nothing less.