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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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ViolentDesire
78934223
#121 - 2016-01-18 17:16:15 UTC
Calexis Atredies wrote:
If your goal is to provide "options to help new players with progression" why is this change allowed to affect characters with more than say 50 mill SP?

Did your lead designer not pose the question of how much assistance new players needed to be competitive? Or did your Senior Producers simply rejoice at the idea of more people engaging with these micro-transactions on their older accounts?

The exclusivity of the early adoption SP pool for your title is gone, what separated a player of 4 or 10 years is now nothing other than their employment history and DOB.


Because money, not new players, is the goal.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2016-01-18 17:16:55 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
...
But I do think the genuinely new player (not just the alt of someone who probably also has 5 other alts and won't need all of them RIGHT NOW) is the one who benefits the most from just a single little boost of 500k SP.

They can't go and do something else... except train I guess. So it helps this particular edge a lot.


I think if that were true and this change wasa really intended to help new players then they would simply have given the 500 K SP on the starter character (allocated or unallocated). This is purely about making money through people buying PLEX to buy SP (and pushing up PLEX prices as a sideline, again benefiting the older players who can afford to stockpile them to sell later).
Amanda Rekenwhith
Safeties On Red
#123 - 2016-01-18 17:16:58 UTC
My question is this:

It says points can be extracted if the character has 5,000,000 or more SP. Does this mean I can't milk an alt down to zero? If he has 5.8 million SP, only one million can be extracted? Or since he had 5,000,000+ at one point I can extract him to nothing?

For dessert we're offering humble pie.  Would you like some after you're done eating crow?
Erotisk Folkdans
Club Autism
#124 - 2016-01-18 17:17:26 UTC
Sooo awesome!! Resubbed immediately when I read about this feature in the previous blog post. Really happy that it is finally implemented. CCP BEST COMPANY EVER!!

sp trading is the best thing since sliced bittervet
Alexxei
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#125 - 2016-01-18 17:18:51 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
the major flaw with this idea is that I don't think that there is enough incentive for people to extract SP in the first place.

Sure there is. I have 140 million sp. I dont need to buy any and I wont buy any. Dont need isk and dont need to sell any but there are skills I would like to remove in order to have a perfectly orange character sheet with all V's in important things.

This feature is about character customization not pay-to-win or anything of the sort.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#126 - 2016-01-18 17:19:05 UTC
Hendrink Collie wrote:
Querns wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
Querns wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:

Total joke and unforgivable. What is claimed is essentially impossible to conclude. The overwhelming majority other than maybe goons + pets and trolls saw this as a clearly destructive change and were against it. I don't think I've ever seen anything so untrue in relation to Eve. The amount of confirmation bias and dishonesty required to make this claim is astounding.

The only thing that's destructive about this change is the death of SP leaderboard onanism. Fortunately, such masturbatory pursuits, like real masturbation, are completely meaningless.


I guess you were in the minority that thought this was a good idea.

I do agree that it is a fantastic idea. I don't agree that my opinion represents the minority opinion.


For once, it seems reddit has the best opinion of skill tradiing. The overall opinion is pretty level-headed over there compared to here and twitter.

Funny thing about that -- I was monitoring that thread. The opinion was, initially, full-on panic, until Elise Randolph posted about it. Then, everyone was okay with it.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Melek D'Ivri
Illuminated Overwatch Group
#127 - 2016-01-18 17:20:11 UTC
I am going to assume the anti-skill-purchase group voice was drowned out then. Not only was it not heard, you actually went the other direction with it and increased what high skilled / rich players in game can purchase with their ISK. This is not even microtransactions, something like this can only be called macrotransactions.

The joy and art of patiently learning a skill in EVE, while frustrating, will be eliminated, and anyone with a good credit card can suddenly feel like they "won EVE". Yes, the experience isn't there, so they will likely die quickly in their hard-purchased ship and the skills that fly it, so that will leave most of them two options: buy another ship with PLEX they sold or quit after wasting their money. Now here's where the old, "What's it really matter if they leave, if we've got their money?" argument comes in. Yes it matters! Then they tell everyone they know the game is crap and only wants your personal bank account information, those people tell people, etc.

The people pushing for these and the higher rates you guys gave them have you in their pocket and don't care about EVE. I am sure they supposedly claimed to be wanting to help the new players with this, but it won't. Those that have the majority of wealth are only trying to cushion the gap between them and new players coming in even more.

This is going to drastically reduce the time it takes to learn all the skills, meaning players will run out of things to learn, do those things they've never done, then be done. They will have no reason to continue playing, or will lapse their accounts during long breaks between content.
Dibz
Doomheim
#128 - 2016-01-18 17:20:32 UTC
Woo!

Please, just don't screw up with the AUR cost. If you price it too high then even the people who think this is a good idea will turn against you, not to mention those against.
Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH
#129 - 2016-01-18 17:25:29 UTC
Look at the end of the day this is out of our hands...if CCP want to break their own sand castle who are we to argue...so go ahead ...just don't expect any sympathy when there are no more players left to pay the bills. I have 5 accounts each with way over 50 mil sp ...im just going to sell their skills off... make a **** ton of isk and keep my main.

now take that to the bank ...and decide how well you thought this through .
B0RG 0VERLORD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#130 - 2016-01-18 17:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: B0RG 0VERLORD
Captain Africa wrote:
Look at the end of the day this is out of our hands...if CCP want to break their own sand castle who are we to argue...so go ahead ...just don't expect any sympathy when there are no more players left to pay the bills. I have 5 accounts each with way over 50 mil sp ...im just going to sell their skills off... make a **** ton of isk and keep my main.

now take that to the bank ...and decide how well you thought this through .



what can you say to a mentality of a potato

that statement will cost you a shitload

Does CCP mean crap coding people
Renfus
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#131 - 2016-01-18 17:31:03 UTC
It's a horrible idea..
All we need are skillpoint remaps..
maybe available every 2 years +- or purchase from CCP..

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Adunh Slavy
#132 - 2016-01-18 17:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
Mixed feelings about this ... I am glad it does not magically add skill points to the game, that would truly be pay to win and a horrible thing. This may, assuming mid range characters consume SP for sale, decrease the total amount of SP in the game world ... that is until someone discovers the most economically viable way to farm SP.

My biggest concern with this is the same concern with all of these Aurum based micro-transactions - lack of in game resources consumed to produce the ability or feature.

It's all well and good, CCP, that you are not introducing resources created from nothing but you are creating something from nothing all too often, despite any claims to the contrary. The ability to move SP has only one true cost, and that is Aurum ... real money in the real world. The ability and process simply now exist at no in game cost except the paltry few minutes it takes to manipulate the GUI.

All of this stuff should have an in game cost, be it minerals, PI, moon goo or the corpses of dead rats. CCP you are missing an opportunity to give more depth to the Eve economy. I'm glad your real world revenue may get a small boost, but you are short changing the game by neglecting in-game wealth consumption.

Vanity is an expression of wealth, yet none of it is consumed by said vanity.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#133 - 2016-01-18 17:35:27 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
My biggest concern with this is the same concern with all of these Aurum based micro-transactions - lack of in game resources consumed to produce the ability or feature.

It's all well and good, CCP, that you are not introducing resources created from nothing but you are creating something from nothing all too often, despite any claims to the contrary. The ability to move SP has only one true cost, and that is Aurum ... real money in the real world. The ability and process simply now exist at no in game cost except the paltry few minutes it takes to manipulate the GUI.

All of this stuff should have an in game cost, be it minerals, PI, moon goo or the corpses of dead rats..

No, Player Corpses.

Oh and I guess technetium

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
GeeBee
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#134 - 2016-01-18 17:35:56 UTC
This is a step in the wrong direction and a disservice to all players new and old. Eve is already in a way pay to win by way of subscription time and time investment. This change solidifies EVE as pay to win for a starting player and sets a poor standard that will resound across the gaming communities. The only people who are in favor of this are those who profit from it.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#135 - 2016-01-18 17:36:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mashie Saldana
I have 213mill SP and just for the record, I wish skill injector couldn't be used on 80/100mill SP toon.

Since it's never gonna happen I would settle for 50k SP / Injector.

But again several weeks and 300+ pages later, CCP is still serving us the same dish.
Also CCP are you aware that you are actually removing SP from the game ?
What happens when there will be no more "useless" SP to trade ? Beginners will be facing market shortage and price will go through the roof.
On the other side some people will just create alts with max remapped attributes & +5 implants and farm SP.... what a game mechanic...

How to win EVE
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#136 - 2016-01-18 17:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Querns wrote:
Hendrink Collie wrote:
For once, it seems reddit has the best opinion of skill tradiing. The overall opinion is pretty level-headed over there compared to here and twitter.

Funny thing about that -- I was monitoring that thread. The opinion was, initially, full-on panic, until Elise Randolph posted about it. Then, everyone was okay with it.

So you're saying it's actually a minority, just a minority that includes Elise Randolph?

And of course noted poster Querns.

Mashie Saldana wrote:
But again, few weeks and 300+ pages later haven't changed anything.

I can think of at least one, 150K at top SP bracket instead of 50K. Big smile

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH
#137 - 2016-01-18 17:37:02 UTC
B0RG 0VERLORD wrote:
Captain Africa wrote:
Look at the end of the day this is out of our hands...if CCP want to break their own sand castle who are we to argue...so go ahead ...just don't expect any sympathy when there are no more players left to pay the bills. I have 5 accounts each with way over 50 mil sp ...im just going to sell their skills off... make a **** ton of isk and keep my main.

now take that to the bank ...and decide how well you thought this through .



what can you say to a mentality of a potato

that statement will cost you a shitload



I dont expect you to get what Im saying ...fucken noob....
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#138 - 2016-01-18 17:40:28 UTC
Dibz wrote:
Woo!

Please, just don't screw up with the AUR cost. If you price it too high then even the people who think this is a good idea will turn against you, not to mention those against.


Simple math can get a estimate.

With 2, 500...ish SP/hr you get 1,800,000 SP/month...or per PLEX (1,100,000,000 ISK)

PLEX is worth what 3,500 AUR.

500,000 SP is what the skill packs will be in.

So, you're looking at about 875 AUR to buy from the Store. Or 275,000,000 ISK.

Then you include the SP...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#139 - 2016-01-18 17:40:40 UTC
Captain Africa wrote:
B0RG 0VERLORD wrote:
Captain Africa wrote:
Look at the end of the day this is out of our hands...if CCP want to break their own sand castle who are we to argue...so go ahead ...just don't expect any sympathy when there are no more players left to pay the bills. I have 5 accounts each with way over 50 mil sp ...im just going to sell their skills off... make a **** ton of isk and keep my main.

now take that to the bank ...and decide how well you thought this through .

what can you say to a mentality of a potato

that statement will cost you a shitload

I dont expect you to get what Im saying ...fucken noob....

Perhaps an SP injection would help.

Wait until Feb.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#140 - 2016-01-18 17:41:12 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
...
But I do think the genuinely new player (not just the alt of someone who probably also has 5 other alts and won't need all of them RIGHT NOW) is the one who benefits the most from just a single little boost of 500k SP.

They can't go and do something else... except train I guess. So it helps this particular edge a lot.


I think if that were true and this change wasa really intended to help new players then they would simply have given the 500 K SP on the starter character (allocated or unallocated). This is purely about making money through people buying PLEX to buy SP (and pushing up PLEX prices as a sideline, again benefiting the older players who can afford to stockpile them to sell later).



Not to mention that new player is not going to have the isk to buy this so is only option will be to pay real money to get it one of the first things you do in a game should o not be pay a sub and then immediately pay for progression.

One of the great things about eve was it hardly ever played into instant gratification and it certainly never felt as p2w as this


The change has nothing to do with benefiting new players and every thing to do worth ccp selling sp in a pretty rapper

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble