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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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Indahmawar Fazmarai
#361 - 2016-01-18 23:21:55 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Do I like it? Still no.

Am I leaving because of that? Nope, I can adapt.

If you decide that you cannot adapt to changing game conditions please remember to donate your things to Operation Magic School Bus

Adapting to changing conditions and changing rules is a very strong part of this game but I understand if some find that the changes take us too far from the original intent and find the new game unpalatable.

To me? It just feels wrong. But I will survive and play my own way. I don't like the character bazarre, never made me quit. Just don't like it.

m


I don't think that nobody quits over it. But it's telling of how much CCP craves for revenue from EVE.

This is not how a job well done looks like, CCP.
Trancefo Delcroix
Cosmic Origin
#362 - 2016-01-18 23:24:26 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Do I like it? Still no.

Am I leaving because of that? Nope, I can adapt.

If you decide that you cannot adapt to changing game conditions please remember to donate your things to Operation Magic School Bus

Adapting to changing conditions and changing rules is a very strong part of this game but I understand if some find that the changes take us too far from the original intent and find the new game unpalatable.

To me? It just feels wrong. But I will survive and play my own way. I don't like the character bazarre, never made me quit. Just don't like it.

m


Mike,

A great leader is someone who holds true to his ideals,
someone who sees the needs of the many
and who exercices a degree of influence over others
to make the mecessary changes happen.

Not someone who "feels wrong" and "doesn't like",
not someone who accepts people mass quiting,
not someone who adepts to the "changing rules" - read broken promises from CCP

So please either:
1) Stand up to CCP and step down from CSM temporarily
2) Admit you are not a real leader and step down from CSM permanently, or
3) Stay in CSM and admit you don't give a f* about the game

And that goes to the other majority in CSM who "feels wrong" but doesn't act like men.

My last act in this game? Shooting the monument in memorial for the days people stood up and CCP made a promise...
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#363 - 2016-01-18 23:26:29 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
jason hill wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
jason hill wrote:
yeah but wasn't training that "useless skill" your choice to train ...until you realised that it was actually useless ?

its part and parcel of what eve is ...imo
Not sure this argument even holds fully true with the number of skills that have changed function or prerequisites that have shifted.
well actually it does ... the learning skills as an example .....but we got recompensed for those particular ones .
Actually they don't since as you said, they were refunded. They are no longer a choice made under now irrelevant information. They are a choice that was removed, as opposed to those that remain, but were changed in some way.


still irrelevant ...as its still your choice to train any particular skill ..wether you utilise it or not is your choice due to your particular playing style ...personally im trained to dread pilot lvl 5 ..but have never used it ... but at the time it was a requirement of my particular corp ... ho hum .... im a carrier pilot ..
Kisloved Algaert
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#364 - 2016-01-18 23:26:53 UTC
Oreb Wing wrote:

It shifts SP from one place to another with diminishing returns. I can't see a way it can be gamed.

1.Wrong.
2.More alts.

But statisitcally CCP is RIGHT. Majority of people will not abuse the system and market system will probably make it bearable, as well as this will bring more $ to the CCP.

What nobody seems to understand is that the game will be less interesting.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#365 - 2016-01-18 23:27:50 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Is having an Eveonline subscription a prerequisite for playing Valkyrie on Occulus Rift?
No.

Sgt Ocker wrote:
You can't see how this system can be gamed?
1 account, 3 character slots - 3 X 50 mil SP characters specialized to suit your needs (even 3 X 80 mil SP chars is possible if you have the isk - Or $'s) - Never need to train again and can potentially fly everything from a T2 frigate to a Titan.
Prospect sort of detracts from having 1 high skilled char, why would you bother when lower skilled specialized characters can be so easily created.
Why should you? So far as I'm aware the concept of having a single, highly trained character was more the result of what the skill system emphasized for efficient expansion for training alone. That sets aside the fact that the Bazaar mandated your character capacities be saparate.

Sgt Ocker wrote:
What happens to dual character training certificates now? Do they have their (Aurum) price reduced substantially to be viable alongside TSP's - Or will you need to pay for dual character training as well as TSP's if it is a second character on the same account you want to train?
How did you conclude they would be unviable as is in the first place? Your pricing in the other thread left them a better value as is.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#366 - 2016-01-18 23:31:34 UTC
Trancefo Delcroix wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
Do I like it? Still no.

Am I leaving because of that? Nope, I can adapt.

If you decide that you cannot adapt to changing game conditions please remember to donate your things to Operation Magic School Bus

Adapting to changing conditions and changing rules is a very strong part of this game but I understand if some find that the changes take us too far from the original intent and find the new game unpalatable.

To me? It just feels wrong. But I will survive and play my own way. I don't like the character bazarre, never made me quit. Just don't like it.

m


Mike,

A great leader is someone who holds true to his ideals,
someone who sees the needs of the many
and who exercices a degree of influence over others
to make the mecessary changes happen.

Not someone who "feels wrong" and "doesn't like",
not someone who accepts people mass quiting,
not someone who adepts to the "changing rules" - read broken promises from CCP

So please either:
1) Stand up to CCP and step down from CSM temporarily
2) Admit you are not a real leader and step down from CSM permanently, or
3) Stay in CSM and admit you don't give a f* about the game

And that goes to the other majority in CSM who "feels wrong" but doesn't act like men.

My last act in this game? Shooting the monument in memorial for the days people stood up and CCP made a promise...


well, I do not see mass quitting, yet.

I am allowed to like or dislike things that CCP does. It does not change my standing with them.

Not quite sure where the broken rules comes in but I am sure they probably have, now and again.

Bottom line? They are stuck with me for another few months. This is NOT something I would quit the game over (as I said) nor is it so heinous that I would step down from the CSM. Don't like does not equate to quitting, for me. I would rather stay in and do what I can to control the fall.

Oh and one last thing. CSM are not supposed to be leaders but representatives of the players. That is a critical difference. I was elected by people who knew that I react honestly to things and tend to say what I think. That is what I am doing, here.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#367 - 2016-01-18 23:32:22 UTC
jason hill wrote:
still irrelevant ...as its still your choice to train any particular skill ..wether you utilise it or not is your choice due to your particular playing style ...personally im trained to dread pilot lvl 5 ..but have never used it ... but at the time it was a requirement of my particular corp ... ho hum .... im a carrier pilot ..
You're not following. I'm not talking about skills someone told you to train, which BTW that sounds like I corp I'd never want to join, but rather skills that have either changed in function or prerequisite, or even skills that function the same primarily, but aren't needed for a particular playstyle due to game changes.

You can't argue an informed decision was made there, and your own choice to knowingly waste training time doesn't compare.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#368 - 2016-01-18 23:35:51 UTC
Well Mike, can we at least know which CSM members supported SP-trading and DO like it? Because I, personally, can't vote for people to "represent" me if they and I have vastly different ideas of what this game is. Consequences are meaningless if you can erase your mistakes. This is not EVE.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2016-01-18 23:39:00 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
Well Mike, can we at least know which CSM members supported SP-trading and DO like it? Because I, personally, can't vote for people to "represent" me if they and I have vastly different ideas of what this game is. Consequences are meaningless if you can erase your mistakes. This is not EVE.


That would be a great question to take to the campaign threads. At the moment I am not even sure which CSM are rerunning and I will not speak for those that are. I tell you what i think. But then, I am not running for CSM XI so I doubt what I think matters to you.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Kisloved Algaert
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#370 - 2016-01-18 23:39:53 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:

I am allowed to like or dislike things that CCP does. It does not change my standing with them.

You could resign in protest to send message to CCP.
That would probably change your standing with them.
Annia Aurel
J-CORP
Goonswarm Federation
#371 - 2016-01-18 23:42:43 UTC
Soleil Fournier wrote:
Please give us the option to delete unwanted skills from our head. Maybe if the skill has 0 points allocated to it, there's a delete button to press.


+1

Soleil Fournier wrote:
Add time-limited skill resets for people that don't want to buy/sell their skill points but want to reallocate their own skills instead. Thank you.


+1
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#372 - 2016-01-18 23:52:52 UTC
Clearly I was being too optimistic when I thought the reason CCP stopped replying to the old thread was because they realized why this is such a bad idea.
Big rEy
Ro Maniacs
Fragsters
#373 - 2016-01-18 23:58:06 UTC
I am so stupid, I fail to see the problem with this implementation.
Are you somehow afraid that someone who flies a incursus will kill you in a 1v1 because he got more skills than you in a branch that has nothing to do with the ship? Pretty sure it won't make a difference if both of you have decent skills.
Are you somehow afraid that a +500 mil SP character will "win the game"? Or that he will be better somehow? Is this a game where the character will crush with his SP? Is this age of empire?
Is this implementation p2w? Let's get plex out of the game then.
And above all, how manny of us can actually afford to pay the amount required to get 500 mil sp? Or is this about the fact that people with billions of isk will be able to do just that? Well, I think people with that much isk, already have plenty of chars from bazaar.

You know...when I started this game, I got the chance to play in a c6 wh. You know what was the first thing I did? I was sitting somewhere in the wh system, a place that my corp mate made me warp, and all I did for a while was to press scan on dscan. You know why I did that? Because I was f***ing useless. I remember being on comms, and hear them doing things, killing sleepers, going in another hole and pew pew others. You know what I did back then? I was sitting on my couch, and I was listening, because that was the most I could f***ing do at the time. It took me some days to train salvaging and probing, days of frustration that I could not take part and could not play with my new friends in a new game that I chose to play.
You know what was the most f***ed up thing of all? I had billions in my wallet and could not do sh*t with that.
Back then, I wish I had this.

Now please shut your holster. This is progress. It will not break the game, It's just your ego that gets damaged.
P.S. This is a SP sink.
PS.S. CCP, can you please stop this plex violence? We all know that plex it's easy to get, but farming is something really boring in this game, work on PVE too when you can. Some can't afford, some won't buy plex. Milk us, we know that you need the money, but milk us gently, please.
Thank you in advance.

I Don't always PvP, but when I do...

I Don't always PvP, but when I do...
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#374 - 2016-01-19 00:01:13 UTC  |  Edited by: jason hill
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
jason hill wrote:
still irrelevant ...as its still your choice to train any particular skill ..wether you utilise it or not is your choice due to your particular playing style ...personally im trained to dread pilot lvl 5 ..but have never used it ... but at the time it was a requirement of my particular corp ... ho hum .... im a carrier pilot ..
You're not following. I'm not talking about skills someone told you to train, which BTW that sounds like I corp I'd never want to join, but rather skills that have either changed in function or prerequisite, or even skills that function the same primarily, but aren't needed for a particular playstyle due to game changes.

You can't argue an informed decision was made there, and your own choice to knowingly waste training time doesn't compare.




lol ..I think your sort of missing my point and we are both getting off topic alas whatever skill you train is not essentially irrelevant . back in 2003/4 I elected to train all the E/W skills that were then available ...knowing full well that the only available ship at that particular time was the blackbird ...and tbh ...it was hopeless ...and everybody mocked me ...and lo and behold E/w all of a sudden ...was the next big thing ...and to a point still plays a semi major role in most fleet events ... so who was the mug ...me sitting on the already trained skills ..or those that thought they were worthless ... you decide .

I wont mention the miner2 snafu or the T20 situation as those events don't apply to this particular snafu...some peeps forget ...there are those of us that have been around ...for quite sometime Blink
Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#375 - 2016-01-19 00:01:29 UTC
I like the idea but in my eyes its moving us closer to a Pay-to-Win model.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#376 - 2016-01-19 00:06:08 UTC
jason hill wrote:
lol ..I think your sort of missing my point and we are both getting off topic alas whatever skill you train is not essentially irrelevant . back in 2003/4 I elected to train all the E/W skills that were then available ...knowing full well that the only available ship at that particular time was the blackbird ...and tbh ...it was hopeless ...and everybody mocked me ...and lo and behold E/w all of a sudden ...was the next big thing ...and to a point still plays a semi major role in most fleet events ... so who was the mug ...me sitting on the already trained skills ..or those that thought they were worthless ... you decide .
Still missing it, think less, unpopular function and more, what it does now isn't what it did when I trained it, IE: Advanced industry, formerly Material efficiency, a skill I would never have to lvl 5 had I known what was coming, but at the time I trained it I had no way of knowing.
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#377 - 2016-01-19 00:09:51 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
jason hill wrote:
lol ..I think your sort of missing my point and we are both getting off topic alas whatever skill you train is not essentially irrelevant . back in 2003/4 I elected to train all the E/W skills that were then available ...knowing full well that the only available ship at that particular time was the blackbird ...and tbh ...it was hopeless ...and everybody mocked me ...and lo and behold E/w all of a sudden ...was the next big thing ...and to a point still plays a semi major role in most fleet events ... so who was the mug ...me sitting on the already trained skills ..or those that thought they were worthless ... you decide .
Still missing it, think less, unpopular function and more, what it does now isn't what it did when I trained it, IE: Advanced industry, formerly Material efficiency, a skill I would never have to lvl 5 had I known what was coming, but at the time I trained it I had no way of knowing.





wasn't that an "optional skill train" rather than a compulsory skill train ? .... that was your decision to train it .learning skill were ...compulsory
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#378 - 2016-01-19 00:14:10 UTC
Looking good CCP. Glad this is going ahead.

There are a couple of tweaks that I'd like to see.

Like others, I'd like to see the ability to delete or pull skills that get reduced to zero. Its totally an aesthetic thing though, not mission critical.

I'd also like it if it weren't possible to fill T3 subsystem skills using unallocated/bought SP. Its a personal thing, but I think the penalty of losing SP on T3 loss is diminished if you can just inject it back to V right away.

Additionally, I'd like if there was an initial stopper on injecting SP into new skills when they get introduced into the game for the first time. For example, if you introduce a new ship that requires a new skill, I don't think it should be possible to inject SP into that skill until a certain amount of time has passed. Ideally that time would be however long it would take to train that skill to V using +5 implants and a perfect attribute distribution. That would put the kibosh on people having perfect skills immediately when new things get introduced.

Again, its a personal thing, but I think they would be good adjustments.

Now for your next trick; price the extractors appropriately so that you have a genuine micro transaction that will be used and enjoyed, rather than a hilariously overpriced albatross that nobody except the idiotic or rich will use.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#379 - 2016-01-19 00:14:30 UTC
jason hill wrote:
wasn't that an "optional skill train" rather than a compulsory skill train ? .... that was your decision to train it .learning skill were ...compulsory
Learning skills were optional, which is why not everyone got a 5m SP refund. At 3 mill on my oldest I had the highest return in the corp he was in at the time.

But if the argument is that these mechanics shouldn't exist because we made choices, then no, in some cases our SP is locked in choices we didn't actually make, but choices CCP made afterwards.
ArmyOfMe
African Atomic.
#380 - 2016-01-19 00:28:58 UTC
F U, this is even worse then the original idea Shocked

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.