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Dev blog: Building your Citadel, one block at a time

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#341 - 2015-10-28 22:57:33 UTC
Justa Hunni wrote:

Complaining actually Big smile I see some people saying that it was the "WH community" that demanded the removal of asset protection but actually what I've seen is when the plans were first made available, it was the whole "to recover you'll have to build another citadel in the same system to recover" that they were not in favour of. And of course, most of the WH people I've seen posting on this and otehr threads are not in favour of WH space being the only one where you will lose everything if your space castle goes boom. So not sure which part of the "WH community" to which you are referring.

Now if they had offered a similar asset protection system as they did to everyone else, (i.e. your assets can be recovered at an NPC station for a price) instead of the ludicrious "you'll have to put up yet another citadel in the system where you lost the last one" maybe the WH community would have been more receptive. But then again, not like CCP is really supportive of small WH corps.

The entire part that posted in the thread discussion on this in the Wormhole forum and asked for asset destruction in WH space. That will be the part of the WH community that wanted it.
If you missed the thread, perhaps pay more attention to the community?
Michal Jita
Lords Of The Universe
#342 - 2015-10-28 22:58:57 UTC
Obil Que wrote:


Your structure is only vulnerable 3 or 6 hours (Medium or Large) a week. You do not have to log on every day, only during your vulnerable windows and even then, not during the first attack as you really only need to be there to defend the second timer.

This is marked improvement over a POS. While the POS does attack, anyone with an ounce of planning can outsmart your POS defenses and attack your tower at any time putting it into reinforcement and then wait/return 42 hours later to finish the job.

There is not added pressure on small corps, only absentee corps that cannot commit to three or six hours a week of activity to defend their space.


As a corp member unless i log in everyday I will not be able to evac my stuff once we get attacked.
And belive me with new mechanics small corps WILL get attacked for exactly that reason.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#343 - 2015-10-28 23:13:05 UTC
Justa Hunni wrote:
Querns wrote:
Justa Hunni wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:

blow up the old one and use asset safety to automove


Except of course if you are in a wormhole since only nullbears and other empire scum get asset protection.

I can't actually tell if you're boasting or complaining, but in the latter case, you can blame the wormhole community for that being the case. Asset safety was originally going to apply to wormholes.


Complaining actually Big smile I see some people saying that it was the "WH community" that demanded the removal of asset protection but actually what I've seen is when the plans were first made available, it was the whole "to recover you'll have to build another citadel in the same system to recover" that they were not in favour of. And of course, most of the WH people I've seen posting on this and otehr threads are not in favour of WH space being the only one where you will lose everything if your space castle goes boom. So not sure which part of the "WH community" to which you are referring.

Now if they had offered a similar asset protection system as they did to everyone else, (i.e. your assets can be recovered at an NPC station for a price) instead of the ludicrious "you'll have to put up yet another citadel in the system where you lost the last one" maybe the WH community would have been more receptive. But then again, not like CCP is really supportive of small WH corps.

This thread was where a vociferous portion of the wormholer community asked for full-loot citadels in J-space. As always, the forums sample only a tiny portion of the community.

Though, no-teleport-to-k-space asset safety was always on the table.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#344 - 2015-10-28 23:14:18 UTC
Michal Jita wrote:
Obil Que wrote:


Your structure is only vulnerable 3 or 6 hours (Medium or Large) a week. You do not have to log on every day, only during your vulnerable windows and even then, not during the first attack as you really only need to be there to defend the second timer.

This is marked improvement over a POS. While the POS does attack, anyone with an ounce of planning can outsmart your POS defenses and attack your tower at any time putting it into reinforcement and then wait/return 42 hours later to finish the job.

There is not added pressure on small corps, only absentee corps that cannot commit to three or six hours a week of activity to defend their space.


As a corp member unless i log in everyday I will not be able to evac my stuff once we get attacked.
And belive me with new mechanics small corps WILL get attacked for exactly that reason.

Citadels have user-definable vulnerability windows. Mediums only require 3 hours per week, and the hours do not have to be contiguous. If you want to make your thing vulnerable only on the weekend where you will have the most hands available for defense, you can do so.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#345 - 2015-10-28 23:16:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Michal Jita wrote:

As a corp member unless i log in everyday I will not be able to evac my stuff once we get attacked.
And belive me with new mechanics small corps WILL get attacked for exactly that reason.

Hi, lets pretend I am in your corp and we have an M Citadel
Lets say the vulnerability is set to Midnight - 3am Friday.
All I have to do is log in at some point on friday or saturday and check if it is under attack and I can evac all my belongings.
Sunday-Thursday don't matter because the structure will be dead or safe by then.

So all you need is one log in for a given 48h period.

Additionally you have a corp office in your citadel, so it's up to you how much you care about risk of theft vs how much you care about risk of destruction.
But if your corp only has 7 people, you can have a division per person, always use the office and the director can evac for everyone. So no risk of theft except by the director.

So..... Where exactly is your complaint?
Cat Harkness
Twilight Labs
The Serenity Initiative
#346 - 2015-10-28 23:26:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Harkness
Michal Jita wrote:
Obil Que wrote:


Your structure is only vulnerable 3 or 6 hours (Medium or Large) a week. You do not have to log on every day, only during your vulnerable windows and even then, not during the first attack as you really only need to be there to defend the second timer.

This is marked improvement over a POS. While the POS does attack, anyone with an ounce of planning can outsmart your POS defenses and attack your tower at any time putting it into reinforcement and then wait/return 42 hours later to finish the job.

There is not added pressure on small corps, only absentee corps that cannot commit to three or six hours a week of activity to defend their space.


As a corp member unless i log in everyday I will not be able to evac my stuff once we get attacked.
And belive me with new mechanics small corps WILL get attacked for exactly that reason.


You do not need to evac your stuff.
Quote:
Items located in personal or corporation hangars will be impounded and saved from destruction.


Unless you are talking about WH space.

Cat Harkness

CEO

Twilight Labs
Justa Hunni
State War Academy
Caldari State
#347 - 2015-10-28 23:34:32 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Cat Harkness wrote:
Destiny Dain2 wrote:
Can a Citadel change their fit on the fly with weapons and ammo?


I picture a sub-capital fleet come in on the final round and the persons Citadel is fitted for them and then when the timer starts, in come the Capitals with no way to defend.


No. Slots can not be changed while the Citadel is under attack (any time the shields, armor, hull is not 100%).

So not even during the repair cycle.




Hmmm I tend to remember we stated after shields were gone. You make me doubt because I can see some crazy module swapping game in combat. Let me double-check and come back at you on that one.


Double-checked, you won't be able to refit in combat. Also won't be able to change modules after shields are gone.


So the possible situation referenced by the original post is accurate. You fit for subcaps as that is what is attacking you then once you are under attack, and your fitting is locked, they bring in the Caps and you are SOL. Yeah that's allowing for accurate prepping.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#348 - 2015-10-29 00:28:47 UTC
Justa Hunni wrote:
Querns wrote:
Justa Hunni wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:

blow up the old one and use asset safety to automove


Except of course if you are in a wormhole since only nullbears and other empire scum get asset protection.

I can't actually tell if you're boasting or complaining, but in the latter case, you can blame the wormhole community for that being the case. Asset safety was originally going to apply to wormholes.


Complaining actually Big smile I see some people saying that it was the "WH community" that demanded the removal of asset protection but actually what I've seen is when the plans were first made available, it was the whole "to recover you'll have to build another citadel in the same system to recover" that they were not in favour of. And of course, most of the WH people I've seen posting on this and otehr threads are not in favour of WH space being the only one where you will lose everything if your space castle goes boom. So not sure which part of the "WH community" to which you are referring.

Now if they had offered a similar asset protection system as they did to everyone else, (i.e. your assets can be recovered at an NPC station for a price) instead of the ludicrious "you'll have to put up yet another citadel in the system where you lost the last one" maybe the WH community would have been more receptive. But then again, not like CCP is really supportive of small WH corps.



You need to listen to the WH Q&A that was posted, WH corps were brutal, they wanted zero asset safety under no circumstances

None

ZERO

Nada
Justa Hunni
State War Academy
Caldari State
#349 - 2015-10-29 01:23:44 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Justa Hunni wrote:

Complaining actually Big smile I see some people saying that it was the "WH community" that demanded the removal of asset protection but actually what I've seen is when the plans were first made available, it was the whole "to recover you'll have to build another citadel in the same system to recover" that they were not in favour of. And of course, most of the WH people I've seen posting on this and otehr threads are not in favour of WH space being the only one where you will lose everything if your space castle goes boom. So not sure which part of the "WH community" to which you are referring.

Now if they had offered a similar asset protection system as they did to everyone else, (i.e. your assets can be recovered at an NPC station for a price) instead of the ludicrious "you'll have to put up yet another citadel in the system where you lost the last one" maybe the WH community would have been more receptive. But then again, not like CCP is really supportive of small WH corps.

The entire part that posted in the thread discussion on this in the Wormhole forum and asked for asset destruction in WH space. That will be the part of the WH community that wanted it.
If you missed the thread, perhaps pay more attention to the community?


Ahh that must have been my problem. See I just assumed that the comments by the people identifying as WH people in the thread about the issue linked from the Dev Blog would be the one which was relevant. I guess I just didn't understand that I had to go to other unlinked sub-threads to see the exact opposite opinion being expressed by "the community" rather than those people, you know, in the actual related thread who are also part of the WH community. But you know, whatever you have to tell yourself . . .
Cat Harkness
Twilight Labs
The Serenity Initiative
#350 - 2015-10-29 01:26:37 UTC
Justa Hunni wrote:

So the possible situation referenced by the original post is accurate. You fit for subcaps as that is what is attacking you then once you are under attack, and your fitting is locked, they bring in the Caps and you are SOL. Yeah that's allowing for accurate prepping.


Then you better have people on grid to help defend. But I fail to see why you would fit for smaller ships, I would think you would want the best fit you could afford.,

Cat Harkness

CEO

Twilight Labs
Justa Hunni
State War Academy
Caldari State
#351 - 2015-10-29 01:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Justa Hunni
Querns wrote:
Justa Hunni wrote:
Querns wrote:
Justa Hunni wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:

blow up the old one and use asset safety to automove


Except of course if you are in a wormhole since only nullbears and other empire scum get asset protection.

I can't actually tell if you're boasting or complaining, but in the latter case, you can blame the wormhole community for that being the case. Asset safety was originally going to apply to wormholes.


Complaining actually Big smile I see some people saying that it was the "WH community" that demanded the removal of asset protection but actually what I've seen is when the plans were first made available, it was the whole "to recover you'll have to build another citadel in the same system to recover" that they were not in favour of. And of course, most of the WH people I've seen posting on this and otehr threads are not in favour of WH space being the only one where you will lose everything if your space castle goes boom. So not sure which part of the "WH community" to which you are referring.

Now if they had offered a similar asset protection system as they did to everyone else, (i.e. your assets can be recovered at an NPC station for a price) instead of the ludicrious "you'll have to put up yet another citadel in the system where you lost the last one" maybe the WH community would have been more receptive. But then again, not like CCP is really supportive of small WH corps.

This thread was where a vociferous portion of the wormholer community asked for full-loot citadels in J-space. As always, the forums sample only a tiny portion of the community.

Though, no-teleport-to-k-space asset safety was always on the table.


Querns, thanks for the link :) I remember reading that perticular thread and seeing people coming down on both pro asset safety and anti sides. *edit* Well I re-scanned that particular thread and it is basically what I thought. The majority of the anti-safety seemed to be people from largely predatory groups who wanted some continuation of the loot piniate like they have with current SMAs. For everyone advocating a total loss in WHs, there were an equal number with competeing ideas about partial loss and partial recovery. Funny how those reasoned voices from the WH community have been conveneintly forgotten. By far what I am seeing is whenever someone advocated for total loss, it was for all areas of space. Funny to see someone from Null saying that it was the WH community who wanted total asset forfeture while conveniently neglecting that they wanted it for your citadels too, not just in our space.
Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#352 - 2015-10-29 01:51:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Siobhan MacLeary
Querns wrote:
Justa Hunni wrote:
Querns wrote:
Justa Hunni wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:

blow up the old one and use asset safety to automove


Except of course if you are in a wormhole since only nullbears and other empire scum get asset protection.

I can't actually tell if you're boasting or complaining, but in the latter case, you can blame the wormhole community for that being the case. Asset safety was originally going to apply to wormholes.


Complaining actually Big smile I see some people saying that it was the "WH community" that demanded the removal of asset protection but actually what I've seen is when the plans were first made available, it was the whole "to recover you'll have to build another citadel in the same system to recover" that they were not in favour of. And of course, most of the WH people I've seen posting on this and otehr threads are not in favour of WH space being the only one where you will lose everything if your space castle goes boom. So not sure which part of the "WH community" to which you are referring.

Now if they had offered a similar asset protection system as they did to everyone else, (i.e. your assets can be recovered at an NPC station for a price) instead of the ludicrious "you'll have to put up yet another citadel in the system where you lost the last one" maybe the WH community would have been more receptive. But then again, not like CCP is really supportive of small WH corps.

This thread was where a vociferous portion of the wormholer community asked for full-loot citadels in J-space. As always, the forums sample only a tiny portion of the community.

Though, no-teleport-to-k-space asset safety was always on the table.


The loudest members of a group do not always make the best representatives of a group. I am still pretty strongly against there being no form of asset safety in w-space, as it's a bit of a kick in the teeth. Yes, yes, I know, I know, POSes currently drop loot as w-space Citadels are planned to. That's not the point. Citadels are replacing POSes and in k-space they get total, complete asset safety. W-space gets none whatsoever.

I have repeatedly suggested that what does not drop from a Citadel in w-space should not be destroyed, it should be impounded and recoverable in that system by deploying another Citadel.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#353 - 2015-10-29 02:24:12 UTC
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
The loudest members of a group do not always make the best representatives of a group. I am still pretty strongly against there being no form of asset safety in w-space, as it's a bit of a kick in the teeth. Yes, yes, I know, I know, POSes currently drop loot as w-space Citadels are planned to. That's not the point. Citadels are replacing POSes and in k-space they get total, complete asset safety. W-space gets none whatsoever.

I have repeatedly suggested that what does not drop from a Citadel in w-space should not be destroyed, it should be impounded and recoverable in that system by deploying another Citadel.

Alas, you actually have to air your feedback for it to be taken into account. Why do you think we post so much?

Actually, that's a bit of a misdirection; Goons love to post. It's our nature.

The thing with k-space is that no one actually uses a POS for long-term storage. You'd be a fool to do so when outposts, or at the very least, NPC stations are so close by. Any attempts by CCP to rebuke asset safety in nullsec would be met by players shrugging their shoulders and evacuating to the nearest NPC station. CCP reneged on citadel destruction podding everyone logged off inside for the same reason; players would simply use the tedious, but guaranteed safe tactic of logging off in space to circumvent the risk.

Wormhole residents, OTOH, have to put their assets at some risk due to the design space of the, er, space. Those who spoke against asset safety in wormholes wanted to preserve that. Whatever side of that argument you're on, you have to admit that allowing asset safety in j-space would be a paradigm shift for the status quo.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Exia Lennelluc
Black Omega Security
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#354 - 2015-10-29 02:59:00 UTC
Can the blueprints for citadels be released early so they can be researched and to keep people from making them just leave out fuel structure blocks til the normal release
Nelly Uanos
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#355 - 2015-10-29 07:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Nelly Uanos
Can I get some clarification on hangar access?

Can you give access permission to other character for your personnal hangar? Say my alts, directors, trusted friend?

In wormhole, we never used much the "new" personnal hangar array because it was too tedious with multiple character.

Or will that be only on corporate hangar? If so will Citadel have infinite numbers of corporate hangars?


@ Justa Hunni: Actually you're right, I would prefer if Citadel had no asset protection in LS or NS. But who in their right mind would use these when you got a NPC station next door.

Wormhole space never had this kind of asset protection. You came in knowing that... We want it to stay that way because Wormhole space IS different from the rest of EVE. If you're afraid of losing your stuff so much, stay in High-Sec...
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#356 - 2015-10-29 07:21:26 UTC
Querns wrote:
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
The loudest members of a group do not always make the best representatives of a group. I am still pretty strongly against there being no form of asset safety in w-space, as it's a bit of a kick in the teeth. Yes, yes, I know, I know, POSes currently drop loot as w-space Citadels are planned to. That's not the point. Citadels are replacing POSes and in k-space they get total, complete asset safety. W-space gets none whatsoever.

I have repeatedly suggested that what does not drop from a Citadel in w-space should not be destroyed, it should be impounded and recoverable in that system by deploying another Citadel.

Alas, you actually have to air your feedback for it to be taken into account. Why do you think we post so much?

Actually, that's a bit of a misdirection; Goons love to post. It's our nature.

The thing with k-space is that no one actually uses a POS for long-term storage. You'd be a fool to do so when outposts, or at the very least, NPC stations are so close by. Any attempts by CCP to rebuke asset safety in nullsec would be met by players shrugging their shoulders and evacuating to the nearest NPC station. CCP reneged on citadel destruction podding everyone logged off inside for the same reason; players would simply use the tedious, but guaranteed safe tactic of logging off in space to circumvent the risk.

Wormhole residents, OTOH, have to put their assets at some risk due to the design space of the, er, space. Those who spoke against asset safety in wormholes wanted to preserve that. Whatever side of that argument you're on, you have to admit that allowing asset safety in j-space would be a paradigm shift for the status quo.


Normal loot drops from structures is an important conflict driver. Why go through the trouble of destroying structures, if nothing drops? Of course, nullsec is not about conflict, but avoiding it.
Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#357 - 2015-10-29 08:07:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Siobhan MacLeary
Querns wrote:
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
The loudest members of a group do not always make the best representatives of a group. I am still pretty strongly against there being no form of asset safety in w-space, as it's a bit of a kick in the teeth. Yes, yes, I know, I know, POSes currently drop loot as w-space Citadels are planned to. That's not the point. Citadels are replacing POSes and in k-space they get total, complete asset safety. W-space gets none whatsoever.

I have repeatedly suggested that what does not drop from a Citadel in w-space should not be destroyed, it should be impounded and recoverable in that system by deploying another Citadel.

Alas, you actually have to air your feedback for it to be taken into account. Why do you think we post so much?

Actually, that's a bit of a misdirection; Goons love to post. It's our nature.

The thing with k-space is that no one actually uses a POS for long-term storage. You'd be a fool to do so when outposts, or at the very least, NPC stations are so close by. Any attempts by CCP to rebuke asset safety in nullsec would be met by players shrugging their shoulders and evacuating to the nearest NPC station. CCP reneged on citadel destruction podding everyone logged off inside for the same reason; players would simply use the tedious, but guaranteed safe tactic of logging off in space to circumvent the risk.

Wormhole residents, OTOH, have to put their assets at some risk due to the design space of the, er, space. Those who spoke against asset safety in wormholes wanted to preserve that. Whatever side of that argument you're on, you have to admit that allowing asset safety in j-space would be a paradigm shift for the status quo.


I have aired my feedback, it being ignored or overlooked isn't something I can really do much about.

As to the latter point - well, sure, it's a paradigm shift but all of Citadels is in a way. If my suggestion were to be implemented, it wouldn't detract from what the more predatory sandcastle-kickers in w-space want while allowing those who might have their sandcastle kicked over a decent chance at their stuff not all being gone or stolen.

Stuff that doesn't drop is stuff that attackers wouldn't be able to get their hands on anyway, so where's the harm in setting up so what would normally be destroyed is impounded and recoverable if people friendly to you deploy a new Citadel in that wormhole system. Hell, I'd even settle for two rounds of loot fairy magic; the first governs what drops and what doesn't, then what doesn't drop is either destroyed or impounded for possible recovery later.

E: Terrible text flowchart.

Citadel destroyed
▼
Loot fairy magic 1 ▶ Some stuff drops
▼
Some stuff doesn't drop
▼
Loot fairy magic 2 ▶ Some of the stuff that didn't drop is impounded
▼
Stuff that isn't impounded and didn't drop is destroyed.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave
Munseventy
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#358 - 2015-10-29 08:29:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Munseventy
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
Querns wrote:
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
The loudest members of a group do not always make the best representatives of a group. I am still pretty strongly against there being no form of asset safety in w-space, as it's a bit of a kick in the teeth. Yes, yes, I know, I know, POSes currently drop loot as w-space Citadels are planned to. That's not the point. Citadels are replacing POSes and in k-space they get total, complete asset safety. W-space gets none whatsoever.

I have repeatedly suggested that what does not drop from a Citadel in w-space should not be destroyed, it should be impounded and recoverable in that system by deploying another Citadel.

Alas, you actually have to air your feedback for it to be taken into account. Why do you think we post so much?

Actually, that's a bit of a misdirection; Goons love to post. It's our nature.

The thing with k-space is that no one actually uses a POS for long-term storage. You'd be a fool to do so when outposts, or at the very least, NPC stations are so close by. Any attempts by CCP to rebuke asset safety in nullsec would be met by players shrugging their shoulders and evacuating to the nearest NPC station. CCP reneged on citadel destruction podding everyone logged off inside for the same reason; players would simply use the tedious, but guaranteed safe tactic of logging off in space to circumvent the risk.

Wormhole residents, OTOH, have to put their assets at some risk due to the design space of the, er, space. Those who spoke against asset safety in wormholes wanted to preserve that. Whatever side of that argument you're on, you have to admit that allowing asset safety in j-space would be a paradigm shift for the status quo.


I have aired my feedback, it being ignored or overlooked isn't something I can really do much about.

As to the latter point - well, sure, it's a paradigm shift but all of Citadels is in a way. If my suggestion were to be implemented, it wouldn't detract from what the more predatory sandcastle-kickers in w-space want while allowing those who might have their sandcastle kicked over a decent chance at their stuff not all being gone or stolen.

Stuff that doesn't drop is stuff that attackers wouldn't be able to get their hands on anyway, so where's the harm in setting up so what would normally be destroyed is impounded and recoverable if people friendly to you deploy a new Citadel in that wormhole system. Hell, I'd even settle for two rounds of loot fairy magic; the first governs what drops and what doesn't, then what doesn't drop is either destroyed or impounded for possible recovery later.

E: Terrible text flowchart.

Citadel destroyed
▼
Loot fairy magic 1 ▶ Some stuff drops
▼
Some stuff doesn't drop
▼
Loot fairy magic 2 ▶ Some of the stuff that didn't drop is impounded
▼
Stuff that isn't impounded and didn't drop is destroyed.



i love this idea because can tell you about 95% of the time of ppl that are kick out they never come back. That becaz they lose most if not all their asset they have
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#359 - 2015-10-29 08:35:34 UTC
Getting evicted in a WH means you lose everything anyway. I personaly just accept the fact that WH dwellers are far more hard core than those soft Null Bears Roll

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#360 - 2015-10-29 09:51:43 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Querns wrote:
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
The loudest members of a group do not always make the best representatives of a group. I am still pretty strongly against there being no form of asset safety in w-space, as it's a bit of a kick in the teeth. Yes, yes, I know, I know, POSes currently drop loot as w-space Citadels are planned to. That's not the point. Citadels are replacing POSes and in k-space they get total, complete asset safety. W-space gets none whatsoever.

I have repeatedly suggested that what does not drop from a Citadel in w-space should not be destroyed, it should be impounded and recoverable in that system by deploying another Citadel.

Alas, you actually have to air your feedback for it to be taken into account. Why do you think we post so much?

Actually, that's a bit of a misdirection; Goons love to post. It's our nature.

The thing with k-space is that no one actually uses a POS for long-term storage. You'd be a fool to do so when outposts, or at the very least, NPC stations are so close by. Any attempts by CCP to rebuke asset safety in nullsec would be met by players shrugging their shoulders and evacuating to the nearest NPC station. CCP reneged on citadel destruction podding everyone logged off inside for the same reason; players would simply use the tedious, but guaranteed safe tactic of logging off in space to circumvent the risk.

Wormhole residents, OTOH, have to put their assets at some risk due to the design space of the, er, space. Those who spoke against asset safety in wormholes wanted to preserve that. Whatever side of that argument you're on, you have to admit that allowing asset safety in j-space would be a paradigm shift for the status quo.


Normal loot drops from structures is an important conflict driver. Why go through the trouble of destroying structures, if nothing drops? Of course, nullsec is not about conflict, but avoiding it.


Sure, but my point is that there's a trivial workaround in k-space. For what it's worth, I also think that citadels should be full loot in nullsec. However, I also know that if it were actually the case, the first thing I'd do is evacuate my assets to ROIR or X-7. I wouldn't ever risk anything in a citadel if I didn't need to do so. I can only assume that everyone else would do the same.

Since everyone with a brain will simply avoid stocking citadels with things worth looting in the case of full-loot k-space citadels, why go through the trouble of destroying structures, if nothing drops?

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