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Crime & Punishment

 
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Estavan Andrard and the World Traders Guild

First post
Author
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2015-10-29 20:51:50 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Please tell me what content wars block. Mining OP's?
Any sizable non-PvP focussed highsec corp. If you want to join a highsec corp you either have to select a full on PvP corp or a tiny corp that will at some point get big enough to be stomped all over by wardeccers. It's why groups like red-frog operate entirely from NPC alts, because anything else would be suicide.

If joining player corps improves retention, and players join for a variety of different playstyles, then corps in the starting area of space should be able to support the full array of playstyles. But they can't, because wardecs ensure that only other wardec and PvP groups exist beyond a minuscule scale in highsec.


Odd. Pvp is unavoidable in a pvp game. Hmm.


Anyhow, you derailed it into another famous Lucas kell troll masterpiece long enough. The entire point wasn't a discussion on the validity of wardecs. It was about the OP thinking eebil space pirates are terrible people IRL.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#62 - 2015-10-29 21:18:43 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Odd. Pvp is unavoidable in a pvp game. Hmm.
No, it's not. But get over your blinkered view of what constitutes PvP for a moment and understand that there should be more variety of playstyles in highsec. It's ludicrous that wardecs put such a heavy limit on what corps can do. Honestly, sometimes I think you want easy stagnant gameplay.

Leto Thule wrote:
Anyhow, you derailed it into another famous Lucas kell troll masterpiece long enough. The entire point wasn't a discussion on the validity of wardecs. It was about the OP thinking eebil space pirates are terrible people IRL.

You are the OP, genius, and the thread was you insulting some dude cos he has different opinions from you.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#63 - 2015-10-29 21:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Thule
Lucas Kell wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Odd. Pvp is unavoidable in a pvp game. Hmm.
No, it's not. But get over your blinkered view of what constitutes PvP for a moment and understand that there should be more variety of playstyles in highsec. It's ludicrous that wardecs put such a heavy limit on what corps can do. Honestly, sometimes I think you want easy stagnant gameplay.


No, sorry. Even the devs say "EVE is a PVP game at its core, and there is nowhere in EVE that you are safe". Sorry. Really, sorry. So lets talk about MY "blinkered view" of what constitutes PVP. Please. Sorry. Sorry.

If corps want to succeed, they need to grow some balls and learn to fight, or hire mercs to fight for them. You know I missed your posts while you were gone. WTF was I thinking.

Leto Thule wrote:
Anyhow, you derailed it into another famous Lucas kell troll masterpiece long enough. The entire point wasn't a discussion on the validity of wardecs. It was about the OP thinking eebil space pirates are terrible people IRL.



Yeah yeah yeah. The TOPIC of the OP. Typing on a mobile sucks. And a hell yes I have a differing opinion on the fact that because I blow things up in a GAME it doesnt make me a bad person.

So tell me, do you think I am a crazy psycho because I may get the urge to ruin someone's EVE day??

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#64 - 2015-10-29 22:57:10 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
No, sorry. Even the devs say "EVE is a PVP game at its core, and there is nowhere in EVE that you are safe". Sorry. Really, sorry. So lets talk about MY "blinkered view" of what constitutes PVP. Please. Sorry. Sorry.
*facepalm* Yes, and what is "PvP". Hint, it doesn't just mean "shooting people".

Leto Thule wrote:
If corps want to succeed, they need to grow some balls and learn to fight, or hire mercs to fight for them. You know I missed your posts while you were gone. WTF was I thinking.
Fighting isn't the whole game. Newer players and newer corps get jumped on by veteran wardeccers and they are supposed to just magic up funding or drop everything and play purely for shooting each other just because the wardeccers want and easy time? So is this you confirming that you only believe that players wanting to purely focus on shooting each other should be allowed to have corps? If that's the case, perhaps CCP should just remove all other aspects of the game.

Leto Thule wrote:
Yeah yeah yeah. The TOPIC of the OP. Typing on a mobile sucks. And a hell yes I have a differing opinion on the fact that because I blow things up in a GAME it doesn't make me a bad person.
Yes, the TOPIC of the OP was you insulting another player for having different opinions to yourself, what those opinions consist of is irrelevant. Honestly, the thread should have just been locked and you should have received a warning for trolling from post 1.

Leto Thule wrote:
So tell me, do you think I am a crazy psycho because I may get the urge to ruin someone's EVE day??
Nope, and never claimed as much. Though let's face it, if the joy you get is purely from the fact that another player (not character) is upset and not from the challenge of the game (you've made it clear you don't like the game to be challenging), then it hardly makes you the best kind of person either.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Cyclo Hexanol
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#65 - 2015-10-29 23:26:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyclo Hexanol
Lucas Kell wrote:
*slice* for a moment and understand that there should be more variety of playstyles in highsec. *Slice*


You should understand that on this forum you are consistently taking the side of limiting the types of playstyles in hisec.

If you listen to anything that most of these people say you will see that their opinions are usually central on how to maintain a balance while not neutering content.

Additionally I find your remarks extremely inflammatory and lacking even a modicum of productivity due to your inability to want to reason with your peers in the forum.

As for your comment about it being hard for me to start a hisec pvp group of course it was. Then again no one becomes successful in any other part of space and thinks it was amazingly easy. This game is about the struggle.
Also appreciated seeing that you took all that time to read the text block and analyze it instead of **** posting.
+1

PS: Congrats for having your question selected on the eve-o show
7o


Edit: Fixed my ****** up quotation

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King of Stating the Obvious 2015

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Elected by: Random forum alt

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Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2015-10-29 23:45:53 UTC
Lol.

"You don't like the game to be challenging".

Please keep forgetting that I explained how being decced into the ground helped me, not hindered me.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#67 - 2015-10-30 00:15:32 UTC
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:
You should understand that on this forum you are consistently taking the side of limiting the types of playstyles in hisec.
ROFL, that's a hoot. This forum would literally strip the game down to nothing but pew pew if they had their way. I'm happy for all playstyles to co-exist, they just can;t right now because certain groups are too eager to maintain their overly eager gameplay.

Cyclo Hexanol wrote:
Additionally I find your remarks extremely inflammatory and lacking even a modicum of productivity due to your inability to want to reason with your peers in the forum.
I couldn't care less how you find my remarks. I'm happy to reason with people, but reasoning and conceding are not the same thing. Most people here have absolutely no interest in compromise. They want easy kills and to maintain the current broken status quo. They don't give a crap about balance.

Cyclo Hexanol wrote:
As for your comment about it being hard for me to start a hisec pvp group of course it was. Then again no one becomes successful in any other part of space and thinks it was amazingly easy.
Of course not, though it's easier for some than others. Now try to start up a sizable corp focussed on industry, mining, trading or haling without using NPC alts to do everything, and see how long it takes before you get wardecced into the ground. Like I said before, the only type of corp viable for highsec is a pure combat focussed one. That's obviously broken.

Leto Thule wrote:
Lol.

"You don't like the game to be challenging".

Please keep forgetting that I explained how being decced into the ground helped me, not hindered me.
Yes, I remember your little story. And you did what with that? You sit around bitching about how the ability to mass wardec noobs should be kept. Such a tough guy.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2015-10-30 00:22:56 UTC
I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Cyclo Hexanol
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#69 - 2015-10-30 00:24:51 UTC
Wow... Looks like its already back to **** posting then. That didnt take long.

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King of Stating the Obvious 2015

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Elected by: Random forum alt

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#70 - 2015-10-30 00:29:28 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it.
And you're happy with what it takes away from the game too it seems, like varied playstyles. I get it.

Don't get me wrong, wardecs should still exist, they just need to be balanced so that they are more rewarding for taking on capable players (rather than the current form where it's more rewarding to go after soft targets) and require choices of targets not just "dec everyone".

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#71 - 2015-10-30 00:30:24 UTC
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:
Wow... Looks like its already back to **** posting then. That didnt take long.
It's all in the eye of the reader bro. If you can't be bothered to read and understand it then yes, I imagine it just looks like **** posting to you.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Cyclo Hexanol
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#72 - 2015-10-30 00:31:35 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it.


Honestly im starting to get the impression the only content he pursues is forum content at this point. He speaks so much and knows so little it can't truly be any other way.

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King of Stating the Obvious 2015

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Elected by: Random forum alt

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Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2015-10-30 00:38:09 UTC
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it.


Honestly im starting to get the impression the only content he pursues is forum content at this point. He speaks so much and knows so little it can't truly be any other way.


Nah. He enjoys getting people riled up. Often times I consider him a masterful troll. I doubt that account undocks much (if ever) and is likely industrial or trade based.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Cyclo Hexanol
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#74 - 2015-10-30 00:40:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyclo Hexanol
Leto Thule wrote:
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it.


Honestly im starting to get the impression the only content he pursues is forum content at this point. He speaks so much and knows so little it can't truly be any other way.


Nah. He enjoys getting people riled up. Often times I consider him a masterful troll. I doubt that account undocks much (if ever) and is likely industrial or trade based.


Wait.... People get riled up on this forum?
Thats cute

Edit: actually now that you mention it I did see him troll one of the Broadcast 4 Reps threads. Found that a little distasteful.

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King of Stating the Obvious 2015

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Elected by: Random forum alt

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Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2015-10-30 00:42:15 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it.
And you're happy with what it takes away from the game too it seems, like varied playstyles. I get it.

Don't get me wrong, wardecs should still exist, they just need to be balanced so that they are more rewarding for taking on capable players (rather than the current form where it's more rewarding to go after soft targets) and require choices of targets not just "dec everyone".


I fully support varied playstyles.

How about this:

I would be fine with nerfing wardecs in the event every single rat in highsec was able to scramble and had sleeper level DPS and tank.

The wardec corps provide the element of danger to EVE that simply does not exist without them. Nothing should be easy. It wasnt for me, it wasnt for you (if you didnt start out in SMA, I dont know) and it damn well shouldnt be for any newbros.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Cyclo Hexanol
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#76 - 2015-10-30 00:57:45 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it.
And you're happy with what it takes away from the game too it seems, like varied playstyles. I get it.

Don't get me wrong, wardecs should still exist, they just need to be balanced so that they are more rewarding for taking on capable players (rather than the current form where it's more rewarding to go after soft targets) and require choices of targets not just "dec everyone".


I fully support varied playstyles.

How about this:

I would be fine with nerfing wardecs in the event every single rat in highsec was able to scramble and had sleeper level DPS and tank.

The wardec corps provide the element of danger to EVE that simply does not exist without them. Nothing should be easy. It wasnt for me, it wasnt for you (if you didnt start out in SMA, I dont know) and it damn well shouldnt be for any newbros.



Actually that isnt a bad idea. It would drive player groups because solo mining afk mining would be pretty much impossible. You would need to group up to deal with the rats.

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King of Stating the Obvious 2015

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Elected by: Random forum alt

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#77 - 2015-10-30 07:43:57 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
I fully support varied playstyles.

How about this:

I would be fine with nerfing wardecs in the event every single rat in highsec was able to scramble and had sleeper level DPS and tank.

The wardec corps provide the element of danger to EVE that simply does not exist without them. Nothing should be easy. It wasnt for me, it wasnt for you (if you didnt start out in SMA, I dont know) and it damn well shouldnt be for any newbros.
But they don't provide danger. NPC corp players have no danger of wardecs. Players who roll their corp when wardecced have no danger of wardecs. All you're suggesting is making the game ridiculously hard in another way in order to make it possible for non-combat groups to be allowed to exist.

It was much easier for me, because when I started (in 2005) wardecs were very much limited (having hundreds was impossible) and the population of the game was much much smaller. Highsec corps actually existed so I got a chance to try out a whole range of things with other people before settling in a nullsec group on my main.

It shouldn't be easy for newbros, no but it should be POSSIBLE to play other playstyles in corps with other people. That's what drives retention. Right now it's not possible because veterans who want easy kills farm noobs the moment they try to join non-combat corps. So you're effectively saying that it shouldn't be easy for noobs, but it should be stupidly easy for vets. Thank god you're not a dev.

Cyclo Hexanol wrote:
Actually that isnt a bad idea. It would drive player groups because solo mining afk mining would be pretty much impossible. You would need to group up to deal with the rats.
Let's face it though, that wouldn't happen. Newbies would simply leave because they suddenly can't do anything. They'd join and be forced to find a group before they can take part in any content, and undoubtedly be baited by asshats into groups that get them tackled then run away.

I wonder if you guys even want the game to attract new players at all. Do you not like EVE?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#78 - 2015-10-30 09:29:38 UTC
Eve is a PvP game. But not just that PvP, it's the other PvP, including that PvP, with some PvP thrown in for good measure. Then of course there is the PvP to top off the PvP we didn't mention. But we must not forget to include that PvP.

Just wanted to clear that up, as it can get confusing at times. Please carry on. Cool

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2015-10-30 12:08:55 UTC
Lucas you are a pro at putting words in people's mouth. I didn't say any of that crap and you know it. It isn't about vets getting easy kills.

Again, stay on the topic please.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#80 - 2015-10-30 12:30:31 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Lucas you are a pro at putting words in people's mouth. I didn't say any of that crap and you know it. It isn't about vets getting easy kills.
Of course it is. All the vet wardeccers currently have it super easy. You don't want that to change and you want it to remain impossible for non-combat corps to exist unless they completely nerf PvE into the ground. Realistically you want it to stay exactly as it is, nice and easy for vets, and you threw out a ridiculous compromise.

Leto Thule wrote:
Again, stay on the topic please.
The topic is you trolling a guy, so no. Thread should just be closed tbh.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.