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Crime & Punishment

 
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Estavan Andrard and the World Traders Guild

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Author
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#21 - 2015-10-26 07:38:49 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
You do however miss that he's got some pretty good points. Such as:
Quote:
As it is today, there is no reason for small Corporations to seek growth, as that growth is the monster that will devour them.
Quote:
it is a bottle neck of development, granting that people are scattered enough to either remain small, or join an already powerful block.


It's the biggest issue I have with wardecs too, they prevent growth, ensuring that newer and lower skilled players (because that's who hangs out in highsec, whether you're a wardeccer or not) have less options for collaboration. And it's simply because wardeccers don't have to choose between targets and don't gain anything by going after tough targets, so they simply pick a plethora of soft targets instead.



Looks like it's down to pretty much this.

But many people arrive with "new ideas" that simply get snarked at for a few posts and that's that.

But a whole thread created on it indicates that maybe he's onto something.

As usual, "winning" Eve turns out to be not winning at the game but denying the game to be played. Nothing drives people off more than this. Hopefully the changes in nullsec with save the game and highsec will rot like lowsec, leaving the people who "won" highsec with their ganking and blanket decks nothing but empty space in which to pat themselves on the back.


Mate, I started the thread because the dude is toxic and had some depraved opinions of his fellow players (even going so far as to relate gankers to child molesters in another thread.)



And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.

So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Mag's
Azn Empire
#22 - 2015-10-26 08:43:29 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.

So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.

I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#23 - 2015-10-26 08:53:50 UTC
Adriel Malakai wrote:
These jihads are pretty much all we play EVE for anymore. We honestly aren't really sure what we're going to do now, as we've gone after pretty much every pvp group in HS, done a number of null/low/wh deployments, and are pretty much getting to the end of line. Maybe go after Eve Uni next?
You could try growing a pair and moving out of the protective skirt of concord.

Leto Thule wrote:
Mate, I started the thread because the dude is toxic and had some depraved opinions of his fellow players (even going so far as to relate gankers to child molesters in another thread.)
I'm sure he got there all on his own too, right? Seems strange that players show up, get attacked and bombarded with attempts to "extract tears", then when it actually works and the target flips out on the forum, you guys act like they are the problem. Grow the **** up.

Leto Thule wrote:
I guess to each their own, but making RL comparisons to how space pirates in EVE are terrible people IRL because of exploding pixels tells me he needs a break and maybe a shrink.
I've not read all his posts on it, but I've seen others. For the most part people aren't saying that space pirates are terrible people in real life. But that's not what most of you people are. You're not in it to steal the booty or sink the ship, you're in it to wind up the guy behind the keyboard. Many gankers go out of their way to find the best ways to push people buttons specifically to affect the player not the character, and so yes, those types of people are actually terrible people IRL. Stop pretending that it's the miner that pushed it beyond the boundaries of the game. You know better than that.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Aoife Fraoch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-10-26 09:00:32 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.

So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.



I don't know about you, but I am actually comfortable with accepting that sometimes people are just horrible, and how they choose to play a spaceship game has nothing to do with it.

Perhaps I am just weird.

Oh, and I fail to see the problem with some people using personality clashes as a casus belli. Seeing as we can't just start fabricating claims and stuff.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#25 - 2015-10-26 09:29:01 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.

So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.

I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation?

Markee Dragon got swatted a while back while live streaming eve, it's been a common (ish) thing in the US for a couple of years now though you rarely see or hear about it in relation to eve because here when you want to **** with someone, you can just run a locator and go **** with them.

Herzog had a thread with a link to the news article about the particular incident
Mortlake
Somalian Coast Guard Authority
#26 - 2015-10-26 11:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mortlake
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.

So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.

I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation?

Markee Dragon got swatted a while back while live streaming eve, it's been a common (ish) thing in the US for a couple of years now though you rarely see or hear about it in relation to eve because here when you want to **** with someone, you can just run a locator and go **** with them.

Herzog had a thread with a link to the news article about the particular incident


I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.

I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days.

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#27 - 2015-10-26 11:46:31 UTC
Mortlake wrote:
I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.

I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days.
Just how big is your mothers shoe collection?

Twisted

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2015-10-26 12:11:35 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.

So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.



And I agree with you. I'm also not lecturing anyone.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-10-26 12:21:59 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Adriel Malakai wrote:
These jihads are pretty much all we play EVE for anymore. We honestly aren't really sure what we're going to do now, as we've gone after pretty much every pvp group in HS, done a number of null/low/wh deployments, and are pretty much getting to the end of line. Maybe go after Eve Uni next?
You could try growing a pair and moving out of the protective skirt of concord.

Leto Thule wrote:
Mate, I started the thread because the dude is toxic and had some depraved opinions of his fellow players (even going so far as to relate gankers to child molesters in another thread.)
I'm sure he got there all on his own too, right? Seems strange that players show up, get attacked and bombarded with attempts to "extract tears", then when it actually works and the target flips out on the forum, you guys act like they are the problem. Grow the **** up.

Leto Thule wrote:
I guess to each their own, but making RL comparisons to how space pirates in EVE are terrible people IRL because of exploding pixels tells me he needs a break and maybe a shrink.
I've not read all his posts on it, but I've seen others. For the most part people aren't saying that space pirates are terrible people in real life. But that's not what most of you people are. You're not in it to steal the booty or sink the ship, you're in it to wind up the guy behind the keyboard. Many gankers go out of their way to find the best ways to push people buttons specifically to affect the player not the character, and so yes, those types of people are actually terrible people IRL. Stop pretending that it's the miner that pushed it beyond the boundaries of the game. You know better than that.


First off, I'm not a ganker. Secondly I don't do the tears thing unless someone starts on me first, so get off your high horse with the "grow up" garbage. Third -- "How he got that way"? I'm sorry but no amount of vid game violence is going to turn me into a paranoid nutball who thinks the game reflects real life in any way.

I'm sort of taken back by you Lucas. You usually have more of an evaluation and logical thought process before jumping down someone's throat. But w/e. Defend the crazy man because he is a carebear and MUST have been traumatized so much by the evil gankers to affect his out of game happenings. Anyone who LETS themselves be seriously influenced by a game shouldn't be playing.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#30 - 2015-10-26 12:57:50 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mortlake wrote:
I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.

I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days.
Just how big is your mothers shoe collection?

Twisted

baaaaaaaahahahaha!
Mortlake
Somalian Coast Guard Authority
#31 - 2015-10-26 13:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mortlake
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mortlake wrote:
I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.

I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days.
Just how big is your mothers shoe collection?

Twisted


Not as big as your Dad's, yo?

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#32 - 2015-10-26 13:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mortlake wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mortlake wrote:
I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.

I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days.
Just how big is your mothers shoe collection?

Twisted


Not as big as your Dad's, yo?
Touché good sir.

Seriously though, dropping a Police armed response team on somebody over a game or for lols is plain nasty; there's so much that can hideously wrong with something like that, not to mention that the resources deployed could be saving someone's life elsewhere.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#33 - 2015-10-26 17:10:41 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
First off, I'm not a ganker. Secondly I don't do the tears thing unless someone starts on me first, so get off your high horse with the "grow up" garbage.
Apologies then.

Leto Thule wrote:
Third -- "How he got that way"? I'm sorry but no amount of vid game violence is going to turn me into a paranoid nutball who thinks the game reflects real life in any way.

I'm sort of taken back by you Lucas. You usually have more of an evaluation and logical thought process before jumping down someone's throat. But w/e. Defend the crazy man because he is a carebear and MUST have been traumatized so much by the evil gankers to affect his out of game happenings. Anyone who LETS themselves be seriously influenced by a game shouldn't be playing.
I'm not saying the game reflects real life. What I'm saying is that there's players in this game who go out of their way to engage in psychological warfare, where their intent is to upset and anger the player behind the screen. It's not just a case of competing players blowing up each others ships, it's carefully planned and tested methods of winding a player up to and past their breaking point. Why are people so surprised when it works?

That may or may not be what's happened in this case. There are crazies in games even without people pushing them there, and I've not read enough to comment completely on this guy, but it's not exactly a new thing to see someone this wound up about ganking groups.

Sure, people that get upset by games shouldn't necessarily be playing, but then at the same time, neither should people who go out of their way to wind up other players to the extent that they lose their ****.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#34 - 2015-10-26 20:38:40 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mortlake wrote:
I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.

I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days.
Just how big is your mothers shoe collection?

Twisted




Oh... ow!

Oh snap Lol

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#35 - 2015-10-26 20:45:57 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.

So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.

I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation?

Markee Dragon got swatted a while back while live streaming eve, it's been a common (ish) thing in the US for a couple of years now though you rarely see or hear about it in relation to eve because here when you want to **** with someone, you can just run a locator and go **** with them.

Herzog had a thread with a link to the news article about the particular incident




This. Having dealt with this kind of training and the "combat science" around it, sending a SWAT team against somebody is serious business and IMO attempted murder. If the online community does not condemn and put a stop to this, politicians will, and not in ways we'll find beneficial to gaming.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2015-10-26 21:15:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Thule
Lucas Kell wrote:

Apologies then.


Thank you.

Lucas Kell wrote:

I'm not saying the game reflects real life.


No mate, you arent. But HE is. Did you read his blog and/or the other threads?

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2015-10-26 21:24:59 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.

So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.

I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation?

Markee Dragon got swatted a while back while live streaming eve, it's been a common (ish) thing in the US for a couple of years now though you rarely see or hear about it in relation to eve because here when you want to **** with someone, you can just run a locator and go **** with them.

Herzog had a thread with a link to the news article about the particular incident




This. Having dealt with this kind of training and the "combat science" around it, sending a SWAT team against somebody is serious business and IMO attempted murder. If the online community does not condemn and put a stop to this, politicians will, and not in ways we'll find beneficial to gaming.


Yeah man, we likely all agree. But thats not what this dude is on about. The point is he thinks space pirates are bad people for conducting in-game actions like wardecs and ganks. SWAT teams are not involved here.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Mag's
Azn Empire
#38 - 2015-10-27 01:24:09 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.

So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.

I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation?

Markee Dragon got swatted a while back while live streaming eve, it's been a common (ish) thing in the US for a couple of years now though you rarely see or hear about it in relation to eve because here when you want to **** with someone, you can just run a locator and go **** with them.

Herzog had a thread with a link to the news article about the particular incident




This. Having dealt with this kind of training and the "combat science" around it, sending a SWAT team against somebody is serious business and IMO attempted murder. If the online community does not condemn and put a stop to this, politicians will, and not in ways we'll find beneficial to gaming.
I think you read what you wanted to in that thread tbh. No one condoned it. But some, including none CODE members, disagreed with you in regards to calling it attempted murder. In your opinion it is, but not theirs.

Swatting is awful and from what I understand, Markee was targeted was due to his live streaming. I sincerely hope those involved in causing this or any swat, are dealt with harshly. You are right in that this could mean the death of someone, but whether that makes it attempted murder, is difficult to say. But disagreeing with you on that point, hardly makes people 'toxic'. It's merely a disagreement with a point of law.

Which is a far cry from what this guy is about. His view on certain play styles, is most defiantly 'toxic'.
If you've read the blog, then you'd have seen the baby comment.
What you may not have read, was the following.
Estevan Andrard wrote:
I just consider a person who uses a weapon ship to destroy a ship with no weapons a sort of "pedofile of pvp".

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Mortlake
Somalian Coast Guard Authority
#39 - 2015-10-27 08:15:43 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mortlake wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mortlake wrote:
I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.

I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days.
Just how big is your mothers shoe collection?

Twisted


Not as big as your Dad's, yo?
Touché good sir.

Seriously though, dropping a Police armed response team on somebody over a game or for lols is plain nasty; there's so much that can hideously wrong with something like that, not to mention that the resources deployed could be saving someone's life elsewhere.


I totally agree. I've seen a few streamers flashing replica weapons around (because #YOLOSWAG) and I dread to think what might occur if it happened to them.

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#40 - 2015-10-27 08:16:27 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
No mate, you arent. But HE is. Did you read his blog and/or the other threads?
I read his blog and agreed with a couple of points. You seem to have taken that to mean I agree with everything he says, which I don't. Most of the time though when these people show up, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other though.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.