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MASS-PROTEST AGAINST EXPLORING THE CHARACTER BAZAAR & SKILL TRADING

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Author
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#101 - 2015-10-19 17:50:28 UTC
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:

Dust - CCP trying to compete in a fps market that recycles iteself every year (doomed)
Vampires - Insert comment (Divert core input cash from main income souce being eve and divert cash resources from sustaining core poduct into vampies) (doomed)


People still play older FPS. According to CCP, the arenas for DUST were procedurally generated and scalable as hardware increased. Potential for some pretty nice battles. Was a good gamble I say? Just execution problems.

The second part, that is a necessity for any business. Eve was doing well, they thought they had a plan. There was a market that wasn't tapped into. A fairly good market I would think. yeah, eve needed more infrastructure, but that gets into planning and development direction which could have definitely gone better.

All about return of investment. They figured that dollar to new player, vampire game was more than if they did stuff for eve. Only CCP knows the business strategy. I think what they did was sound, but the product was flawed.

I think of this...

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#102 - 2015-10-19 17:59:26 UTC
I have a few problems with this mechanic.

1) Lets punish vets for having spent years training SP by not allowing them to buy SP at the same rate as everyone else.

2) Lets make the cost of SP subject to change by putting the players in control.

3) A system in which personally wealthy people have more benefit than others is not a good design.

4) Eve is officially P2W.

5) This is not going to benefit "new" players, but instead is going to benefit vets creating new characters to use them for dedicated tasks.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#103 - 2015-10-19 18:23:16 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
I have a few problems with this mechanic.

1) Lets punish vets for having spent years training SP by not allowing them to buy SP at the same rate as everyone else.

2) Lets make the cost of SP subject to change by putting the players in control.

3) A system in which personally wealthy people have more benefit than others is not a good design.

4) Eve is officially P2W.

5) This is not going to benefit "new" players, but instead is going to benefit vets creating new characters to use them for dedicated tasks.



I really understand your concern. It was actually the first one that popped into my mind. I do not consider it P2W though. Talking like the equal of a week of training for a newb. This rate goes for up to a character two years old. After that, yes, it drops off. That keeps if from being a pay to win.

What will the costs be like? Currently, a person can instant buy a high pvp character off the bazaar. How much isk is the average price for one of these instant gratification toons plus a plex? How will it compare to a built character. In addition, the skill packets are created by sacrificing skill points. Some toon somewhere will be removing skills. Most likely bittervet alts who want isk. Though to get it, they need extractors that can only be used on toons a few months old preventing trial farming a fair bit.

I am a vet, there is no punishment here. My roles that I trained for, people already get by buying said character. This won't build power characters, but players doing well will just instead spend their isk to get that bump. Most likely to grab those last level V skills they don't want to wait for.

In the end, the vs wealthy, people won't notice. Those that more long term play to get their SP won't recognize the difference aside from seeing somebody newer with more SP. That doesn't change the fact that the supply is limited with players setting the cost of those items. Eventually, there will be a supply and demand equilibrium. Those that have nothing left to train for will sell off the unwanted SP once unused alts are farmed up. Somebody who wants to P2W won't be able to because I seriously doubt there will be the SP on the market to even make some 3 year equal toon.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#104 - 2015-10-19 18:51:41 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
I have a few problems with this mechanic.

1) Lets punish vets for having spent years training SP by not allowing them to buy SP at the same rate as everyone else.

2) Lets make the cost of SP subject to change by putting the players in control.

3) A system in which personally wealthy people have more benefit than others is not a good design.

4) Eve is officially P2W.

5) This is not going to benefit "new" players, but instead is going to benefit vets creating new characters to use them for dedicated tasks.


1) No punishment at all. You only suffer diminushing returns for already having boatload of SP.

2) Everything is market driven. Why is this more of a problem than PLEX or Trit?

3) They can already do anything more than the elss wealthy so can you tell me where exactly the line is supposed to be drawn?

4) It's not P2W at all unless there is a threshold of SP you can by that make you will all the time garanteed.

5) How do you know some organisation won't be throwing that to fresh newbie to get them a bit more independant early in their capsuler career?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#105 - 2015-10-19 18:52:28 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
I have a few problems with this mechanic.

1) Lets punish vets for having spent years training SP by not allowing them to buy SP at the same rate as everyone else.

2) Lets make the cost of SP subject to change by putting the players in control.

3) A system in which personally wealthy people have more benefit than others is not a good design.

4) Eve is officially P2W.

5) This is not going to benefit "new" players, but instead is going to benefit vets creating new characters to use them for dedicated tasks.



I really understand your concern. It was actually the first one that popped into my mind. I do not consider it P2W though. Talking like the equal of a week of training for a newb. This rate goes for up to a character two years old. After that, yes, it drops off. That keeps if from being a pay to win.

What will the costs be like? Currently, a person can instant buy a high pvp character off the bazaar. How much isk is the average price for one of these instant gratification toons plus a plex? How will it compare to a built character. In addition, the skill packets are created by sacrificing skill points. Some toon somewhere will be removing skills. Most likely bittervet alts who want isk. Though to get it, they need extractors that can only be used on toons a few months old preventing trial farming a fair bit.

I am a vet, there is no punishment here. My roles that I trained for, people already get by buying said character. This won't build power characters, but players doing well will just instead spend their isk to get that bump. Most likely to grab those last level V skills they don't want to wait for.

In the end, the vs wealthy, people won't notice. Those that more long term play to get their SP won't recognize the difference aside from seeing somebody newer with more SP. That doesn't change the fact that the supply is limited with players setting the cost of those items. Eventually, there will be a supply and demand equilibrium. Those that have nothing left to train for will sell off the unwanted SP once unused alts are farmed up. Somebody who wants to P2W won't be able to because I seriously doubt there will be the SP on the market to even make some 3 year equal toon.


People aren't going to sell alts anymore. I realize that's the intent, but instead, they're going to use the for SP farming.
Train 500k worth of SP, wipe it and sell, train 500k more.
So, we're literally going to have a bunch of SP farming characters.

Also, the pricing is likely going to be insane.

So, it costs a plex, plus however many days it takes to train 500k SP based on the value of PLEX (we'll say half a month so half the cost of a plex, plus whatever I feel my time is worth.

We're talking 2 billion isk for 500k SP. (based off example math).
Considering you need a plex to buy the extractor, we already know that the SP packets will cost AT LEAST that much.

So, how is 2 billion isk affordable for new players?

Again, I say this system is beneficial for vets creating new characters and serves little to no benefit for actual new players, unless they have a personal pocket book that is quite a bit more packed than my own.
Same for those vets rolling alt toons. The more money they have in their personal bank account, the more they can throw around in game developing characters with comparable skills to my own.

I have 65 mil in SP.
Someone with enough RL cash could literally match me in a day, provided they want to throw their money around.

Hey, while we're at it, WoW is going to be allowing players to boost a character to lvl 100 with their next expansion.
Why don't we allow players in Eve to boost a character to Carrier pilots?
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#106 - 2015-10-19 18:56:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Frostys Virpio wrote:


1) No punishment at all. You only suffer diminushing returns for already having boatload of SP.


It's indirect punishment.

I spent however long building up my 65 mil SP.

As an example, it took trial, error, and time to be able to fly a Golem to the capabilities that I currently can.

Now, someone can take a brand new character and have them flying a Golem THAT day at the same level as me, but if I want to say, push all my BS skills to lvl 5 so that I can fly all the Marauders, I take a hit simply because I spent too long training skills.

How is that not punishment?


Edit...

I might also note.
This has no dependence on what skills you wipe, do not require dedicated skill plans, and basically no general investment into the skills you're training and why.

Plus, books are sold by NPCs so spam training the same skills (assuming you have to buy the books again) is cheap and meaningless.

I can park my SP character at any station that sells books, buy the cheapest ones and spit them out.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#107 - 2015-10-19 19:08:49 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


1) No punishment at all. You only suffer diminushing returns for already having boatload of SP.


It's indirect punishment.

I spent however long building up my 65 mil SP.

As an example, it took trial, error, and time to be able to fly a Golem to the capabilities that I currently can.

Now, someone can take a brand new character and have them flying a Golem THAT day at the same level as me, but if I want to say, push all my BS skills to lvl 5 so that I can fly all the Marauders, I take a hit simply because I spent too long training skills.

How is that not punishment?


Do you feel punished when a restaurant denies you the kid menu?

Do you feel punished when your ISP give the first 3 month at a lower rate to new costumer?
Sam Knob
They Ruin The Game
SHADOW UNIT
#108 - 2015-10-19 19:15:43 UTC
It's really sad to see people whining here about how CCP tries to screw the vets by letting people buy SP. These are probably the same people that constantly insult you ingame if you refuse to fight them and also the same people that won't get tired telling you that SP won't make you a better pilot (but their link alts and booster drugs will).

If SP truly didn't matter, then why consider EVE P2W?

The argument that this change possibly could drive away newer players if they keep dying to more experienced players is imo invalid. Just remember how much time it took you to undock for the first time with the intention to look for your first solo kill. Remember how much you learnt before even feeling ready for the task. I think by the time you feel ready you will know that SP and ships are only minor factors in the equation that gives you your chance of success (if that was not the case then why aren't more of those rich kids dying silly deaths in special edition ships?). If you get blobed or ganked you will be frustrated, but not because you actually thought buying a few SP would give you the power to destroy entire fleets.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#109 - 2015-10-19 19:26:27 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


1) No punishment at all. You only suffer diminushing returns for already having boatload of SP.


It's indirect punishment.

I spent however long building up my 65 mil SP.

As an example, it took trial, error, and time to be able to fly a Golem to the capabilities that I currently can.

Now, someone can take a brand new character and have them flying a Golem THAT day at the same level as me, but if I want to say, push all my BS skills to lvl 5 so that I can fly all the Marauders, I take a hit simply because I spent too long training skills.

How is that not punishment?


Do you feel punished when a restaurant denies you the kid menu?

Do you feel punished when your ISP give the first 3 month at a lower rate to new costumer?



Nope, but that's a bad comparison.

It's more like, the restaurant's kid menu is the exact same plate that you're going to be given, only at a cheaper rate. However, you're not allowed to order your food off that menu, simply because you're not a kid.

On the ISP comparison,
It's more like the ISP giving a new customer 2 years of lower rates, when you did get a lower rate at all.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#110 - 2015-10-19 19:38:32 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


1) No punishment at all. You only suffer diminushing returns for already having boatload of SP.


It's indirect punishment.

I spent however long building up my 65 mil SP.

As an example, it took trial, error, and time to be able to fly a Golem to the capabilities that I currently can.

Now, someone can take a brand new character and have them flying a Golem THAT day at the same level as me, but if I want to say, push all my BS skills to lvl 5 so that I can fly all the Marauders, I take a hit simply because I spent too long training skills.

How is that not punishment?


Do you feel punished when a restaurant denies you the kid menu?

Do you feel punished when your ISP give the first 3 month at a lower rate to new costumer?



Nope, but that's a bad comparison.

It's more like, the restaurant's kid menu is the exact same plate that you're going to be given, only at a cheaper rate. However, you're not allowed to order your food off that menu, simply because you're not a kid.

On the ISP comparison,
It's more like the ISP giving a new customer 2 years of lower rates, when you did get a lower rate at all.


You probably felt punished for not getting free SP when they recently did the change to new character SP assignement.
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#111 - 2015-10-19 20:03:21 UTC
When I first read the dev blog, I immediately hated the idea. Then I read through other people's posts here, and I can somewhat see the positive effects of such proposal too.

However, there are a few things that I'm still concerned about.

1. As the 'golden rules' page linked at the launcher clearly says, EVE is not all about skill points and isk. It's about using the right tool for the job at the right situations. Personally I feel that there are many ships and modules available to relatively low skilled pilots to utilise to over come a high SP pilot in a 'wrong' ship, i.e., a T1 scissors can still beat T2 paper. Through the series of ship balances and modules tiercide we've had, many T1 frigates and cruisers are quite useful now, and the idea has been that each of them has a 'role' to play, albeit less effective than T2. Such ships can still be very much effective for low SP pilots with support skills to IV, when the ship is fitted and piloted to serve its role and the strengths.

Skilling up to IV in most basic support/ship skills really does not take long time. I know the meta has changed a lot since then, but we used to have Drake fleets with arbalest HML and alpha fleets with scout artillery (just as an outdated example). Nowadays people rage about a noob in a griffin perma jamming them and a T1 fit celestis keeping them out of fight. Heck, a group of catalysts can gank pretty much anything given enough strength in numbers.

What I'm getting at is that there are already plenty of reasonable options available to low SP pilots, for them to be able to contribute to fleet or even have a stint at solo piracy if they understand the game mechanics. Everyone has experienced 'clueless' pilots with bling fit ships doing clueless stuff in low/null, losing horribly to a lower SP/cheaper ship that was fit for the purpose.

My first concern is that with such 'quick access to T2/T3 with ISK' option, the new players may not fully explore more humble but effective options available to them during their early eve career.

Personally I'd be happy to engage someone who's just bought a lot of SP and doesn't fully understand what he's flying, but would that actually be a good experience for the new players? To spend a lot of ISK (earned through real cash or via in game means or whatever) to get into what they thought would be a leet ship, only to lose it in a humiliating way to veterans in T1 frigs?

2. I understand that buying SP is just an 'option', and people can still train normally as we've done for over a decade. But WHO will actually be able to afford such an option? Buying SP will not be cheap. It's anybody's guess, but I'm pretty sure it will be more expensive than a T1 fit Battleship. A lot of new players who aim for Battleship to do r L4 missions or whatever, are usually in a situation where they cannot afford a BS by the time they have lvl III / IV skills for it. New players run L3 missions in drake to save up isk to buy a Raven (just as an example). Can these players, without any outside help or buying PLEX with real cash, be reasonably expected to buy enough SP to fully T2 fit a BS?

I think it's highly unlikely that someone that new to the game has enough ISK to buy that much SP. Traders boast that they can go from 1 million ISK to 1 billion ISK in X number of days, but that's because they KNOW the game, understand the market and know what they are doing in the market. Just based on exploration, missioning and mining, a NEW pilot is very unlikely to be able to buy SP packets to help his progress.

This is my second concern, that quick SP option will be there for all, but new players will not be in position to take advantage of it.

What it boils down to me, is that new players cannot afford SP packets from their usual in-game income, so they will buy & sell PLEX to buy the SP packets. Then they will skill up, and further PLEX to buy a T2/T3 ship and fit them with all T2 mods. And then, almost inevitably, they will lose such ships in loltastic ways we've all done before at some point in our early eve career (or even now!).

This fits the harsh world of eve, and a fool has every right to waste his money in any way he pleases, but I'm just not convinced that such scenario will 1) attract more new players, 2) help us retain the said new players, 3) encourage the new players to progress quickly and join the bigger fun.

Most likely I think new players either cannot enjoy the SP packet purchase option, or they will take this option and lose their stuff and rage quit with bitter taste in their mouths.

Don't get me wrong - I like the skill trading idea in many ways. I probably use it a lot myself to get my ever increasing number of alts trained up quickly and what not. But that's because I've been playing this game for eight years and have enough isk and know how to focus apply those newly purchased SP to my alts so they will serve a specific role, a role which I already have prior experience with.

So I do not criticise the basic concept behind skill trading, and on personal level I actually welcome it, but I'm not confident that this will really help 'new players' as some people say.

PS: Yes, there is already character bazaar, and some new players buy & sell PLEX to get a high SP character and fail miserably. I don't have any factual evidence for this, but at least from what I've seen personally, players who buy a new character from character bazaar are usually NOT that new to the game. They have usually experienced the game for a few months to a year, joined a corp and identified a particular role they would like to play, and go shopping for that specific character. Most people who trade on character bazaar are not complete noobs who's just finished their trial period (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anybody has hard data on this :p).

Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#112 - 2015-10-19 20:10:34 UTC
I approve of skill packets

add following restrictions

no more than one usage per year... )))



I like reallocation of skillpoints, I have 4 mill unallocated SPs. They are priceless.

I wish that skill points were granted after delivering some special service to CCP, like a private lap dance. Only then you know that you are cool and in control of the situation.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2015-10-19 20:14:49 UTC
Opertone wrote:
I approve of skill packets

add following restrictions

no more than one usage per year... )))



I like reallocation of skillpoints, I have 4 mill unallocated SPs. They are priceless.

I wish that skill points were granted after delivering some special service to CCP, like a private lap dance. Only then you know that you are cool and in control of the situation.


hmm so 500k sp a year? hardly worthwhile is it?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#114 - 2015-10-19 20:37:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
I wonder how long it will take for someone with real world personal wealth to amass a ton of these and max out every skill in Eve over night.

Don't think it will happen?

I know a person that has spent over 5 thousand dollars on one of those MMO RTS cell phone games...
And he is the weakest guy in his alliance (or whatever they call them)...
Imagine how much money their best guy has spent?

How much SP would you have if you maxed out every skill in the game?
Presumably just under 500 mil SP, correct?

So 500k for 0-5 mil = 10 of these.
400k for 5 - 50 mil = 112.5
200k for 50 - 80 mil = 150
50k for 80 - 500 mil = 8400
Total = 8672.5

If we assume that skill packets cost 2 bil on the market, then they're essentially worth $40 USD. (estimate obviously)
This means.
$400 USD = 5 mil SP
$4,900 = 50 mil SP (from 0-50mil)
$10,900 = 80 mil SP
$346,900 = All the SP in the game

Don't be surprised if someone spends that much in a year, if not over night.

Not only that, but they you have CCP saying "Hell yeah, people are spending their life savings on Pay 2 Earn. Lets start introducing more way we can make cash without actually providing any new content to the players or meaningful content to draw in new players."

Edit..
Oh, and even if you don't find a single person dumb enough to spend 347k on the game, you will definitely find thousands of people dumb enough to spend 11k on the game.

Edit 2..
These prices are assuming this new system doesn't drive plex prices up to 2 bil on their own.
Can't imagine how much the skill packets would cost then.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#115 - 2015-10-19 20:42:07 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:

If we assume that skill packets cost 2 bil on the market, then they're essentially worth $40 USD. (estimate obviously)

That's not an estimate. It's a fantasy.

Mr Epeen Cool
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#116 - 2015-10-19 20:47:22 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


1) No punishment at all. You only suffer diminushing returns for already having boatload of SP.


It's indirect punishment.

I spent however long building up my 65 mil SP.

As an example, it took trial, error, and time to be able to fly a Golem to the capabilities that I currently can.

Now, someone can take a brand new character and have them flying a Golem THAT day at the same level as me, but if I want to say, push all my BS skills to lvl 5 so that I can fly all the Marauders, I take a hit simply because I spent too long training skills.

How is that not punishment?


Edit...

I might also note.
This has no dependence on what skills you wipe, do not require dedicated skill plans, and basically no general investment into the skills you're training and why.

Plus, books are sold by NPCs so spam training the same skills (assuming you have to buy the books again) is cheap and meaningless.

I can park my SP character at any station that sells books, buy the cheapest ones and spit them out.


ypu just expalined why there is no punshment to you actually. As a 12 year vert with 150m sp's (yes thats low, i chose not to use implants, meh) i cna fly stuff a noob can;t. If said noob was to go out and buy the skills to fly ships and fit them the way i do, they will still die, because they have no idea how best to utalize that ship. You can fly yoru golem diue to trial and error of your fittings, not because you crammed blings out crap in it without understanding what makes it tick. Thats the differemce. Skill points mean crap in eve. the sooner people rememebr this, the better off they are. I don;t care if a vet wants to empty there skills and sell them so some newbie can player stuff sooner. Doesn;t bother me int he slightest, and is not a punishment. Right now i can go buy a char that can fly a titan with max skills from the bizzar if i want. So there really is no difference.

how is books being sold by npcs change anything? they will get a pool of unallocated points to use. Again i don;t have an issue with this.

no, you can't. you are not seeling a maxed out skill, you are removing skill points form a skill and selling them as unallocated. So if you buy a set of sp's you will inject 50k unallocated skills into your head.

again.. your mad about this why exactly?

no skill ponts appear out of thin air. you cna even use this to remove say mining skills and put some skills into other crap.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#117 - 2015-10-19 20:49:15 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
I wonder how long it will take for someone with real world personal wealth to amass a ton of these and max out every skill in Eve over night.

Don't think it will happen?

I know a person that has spent over 5 thousand dollars on one of those MMO RTS cell phone games...
And he is the weakest guy in his alliance (or whatever they call them)...
Imagine how much money their best guy has spent?

How much SP would you have if you maxed out every skill in the game?
Presumably just under 500 mil SP, correct?

So 500k for 0-5 mil = 10 of these.
400k for 5 - 50 mil = 112.5
200k for 50 - 80 mil = 150
50k for 80 - 500 mil = 8400
Total = 8672.5

If we assume that skill packets cost 2 bil on the market, then they're essentially worth $40 USD. (estimate obviously)
This means.
$400 USD = 5 mil SP
$4,900 = 50 mil SP (from 0-50mil)
$10,900 = 80 mil SP
$346,900 = All the SP in the game

Don't be surprised if someone spends that much in a year, if not over night.

Not only that, but they you have CCP saying "Hell yeah, people are spending their life savings on Pay 2 Earn. Lets start introducing more way we can make cash without actually providing any new content to the players or meaningful content to draw in new players."

Edit..
Oh, and even if you don't find a single person dumb enough to spend 347k on the game, you will definitely find thousands of people dumb enough to spend 11k on the game.

Edit 2..
These prices are assuming this new system doesn't drive plex prices up to 2 bil on their own.
Can't imagine how much the skill packets would cost then.


This happens already. a 100m sp char goes for around 30b isk (rought guestimate) thats aprx 30 plex worth or $600. + 2 plex for transfer. Right now i cna go spend money and buy a 'maxed' char. does it make a lick of difference? no cause i;d still die due to not knowing ho to fly the char ship.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#118 - 2015-10-19 21:13:28 UTC
DaReaper wrote:

This happens already. a 100m sp char goes for around 30b isk (rought guestimate) thats aprx 30 plex worth or $600. + 2 plex for transfer. Right now i cna go spend money and buy a 'maxed' char. does it make a lick of difference? no cause i;d still die due to not knowing ho to fly the char ship.


Buying enough of these to max skill your character is not limited to new players.
Vets can do this as well if they have enough RW cash.
Also, no one in the game has made it but maybe half way to max SP.
So no, you can't just go buy a max SP character.

Now that we know you can't buy a max SP character, we can now state that when players buy a character, they buy everything that goes with it.
Bad skill plans, bad standings, bad reputation with other players, may not own anything, bad KB ratio, and whatever else.

With this new plan, YOU dictate where the SP goes and it's applied to your character of choice.

All that SP of the forums can now be melted down and sold, and those characters can be used for SP farming.

500k is about 6.6 days worth of training if you're set for +5 imps and remapped to max out training.
Like I stated, if you have to re-buy the skill books, then those characters will sit at NPC stations where books are provided.

Now, someone will suggest the idea of putting a limitation on how often you can us this ability to remove SP.
All this will do is increase the cost on the market, thus reducing their availability to newbros even more.

Someone may also suggest instead putting a limitation on how often you can add SP using this.
However, this may make prices more reasonable for newbros, but makes them worthless for those that would actually sell them.


Honestly, if we're going to allow the purchase of un-allocated SP, we might as well make these NPC supplied items so they can at least be and isk sink, and make the players suck it up and get stuck with their old characters and SP.



I'm also going to go on a ledge here and say, I'm seeing a LOT of people happy with this thread. A lot of which I have seen saying "no" on SP purchase threads and on re-allocation of unused SP threads.
I guess it's a good idea because CCP suggested it and not some player who has been considered a carebear...
Hypocrites, if you ask me.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2015-10-19 22:00:29 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Also, the pricing is likely going to be insane.

So, it costs a plex, plus however many days it takes to train 500k SP based on the value of PLEX (we'll say half a month so half the cost of a plex, plus whatever I feel my time is worth.

We're talking 2 billion isk for 500k SP. (based off example math).
Considering you need a plex to buy the extractor, we already know that the SP packets will cost AT LEAST that much.


The part of your post that I bolded is incorrect at this time. Per the dev blog, the only statement about cost is that the extractor "can be purchased in the New Eden Store for Aurum." Could be 1 Aurum, could be 1 million Aurum, but at this point the actual cost has not been determined.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/exploring-the-character-bazaar-skill-trading/?_ga=1.56012843.1278408599.1443717471

I'll throw some rough numbers out for the hell of it:
Base market value based solely on PLEX cost:
1 PLEX = 1 month of gametime, also 1.2 billion ISK
1 month of gametime = 1,500,000 SP
1 SP = 800 ISK
500,000 SP = 400 million ISK.

Premium cost imposed by CCP Aurum requirements:
2 PLEX character transfer fee from the bazaar = 5200 Aurum (current market value'ish?)
2 PLEX applies to even 100+ million SP characters.
My WAG for the cost of a "Transneural Skill Extractor" I'd put at 400 Aurum, less than 10% the cost of a character transfer. That's about 180 million ISK.

So for 500,000 SP, total investment would maybe be 580 million ISK.

Training a 5x skill to level V takes 1,280,000 SP if starting from zero. That would cost 1.484 billion ISK at 400 Aurum per Extractor. Plus any premiums dictated by the market, plus any market manipulations, etc.

Training a 300 million SP character from zero would take 384 billion ISK. That's about four Titans. Doable by some characters/groups I guess.

Anyway, that 400 Aurum number is pure speculation on my part - even "Transneural Skill Packets" being 500k SP is something CCP has stated is not set in stone.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#120 - 2015-10-19 22:03:35 UTC
All this will really affect are alts and how long it takes to get them set up. Newbies won't benefit as much as everyone thinks, especially if the prices run.

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