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Good points. This could be the opportunity to get rid of attributes, attribute remaps and attribute modifying implants.

I don't really think it will benefit any one demographic over another. Be it vets, newbs, PVPers, alts, gankers, cyno toons or any other one group.

It'll just be a thing. Some will use it and some won't. And after an initial burst of activity, most won't, in my opinion. As I said before, I feel it will be used for the occasional top up. It'll always be cheaper to buy a character than it will be to add anything but the smallest amount of SP to an existing one.

I can guarantee you that no character traders will ever take advantage of it. The margins are too tight as it is with transfer costs at 2.5 billion ISK. No one will be adding overpriced SP to a character they think they may be selling at some point. There is a possibility of buying crap characters and removing skills to tighten them up and make them more marketable, but that needs to wait until we see the actual costs before I'll say more on it.

As for farming SP for sale. That will work in the case of having a fully trained character on an acct that will be subbed anyway. Just like we do now with characters. Characters built specifically for sale essentially for free as you need to be subbed anyway to keep using the main on that acct. But those with dreams of paying for accts simply to farm are going to find out how easy it is to take a huge loss in this game when you don't think things through.

So, as I see it, no big game breaking disaster. Just another option that may or may not get used very often. Like many other things that were going to kill EVE and be abused to hell, it won't happen. People are inherently lazy and can't be bothered to figure out how to abuse stuff if it isn't handed to them. What people are good at is crying wolf for no good reason. There will be this little uproar and then a month after the plan is implemented everyone will forget about it and move on to the next thing to cry about.

Won't be the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. As said, and as usual in here, much ado about nothing.

Mr Epeen

Enjoy it while you can cause this game isn't gonna be around that much longer for you to enjoy the cheap gains from this disastrous mistake made by CCP.

It's like we haven't heard this exact statement a million times before.

Hello CCP o/

What about the idea of reviving some model of SP loss when podded in combination with allowing the transfer of SP? Maybe transferred SP is tracked and categorized differently, and can be lost on death - along with skills purchased with it?

Thanks Apologies that these are long posts, but I'd rather chuck out a few of walls of text than comment tons or argue. Explaining my stance from a personal perspective might make things clearer - just another view - but mine's close to what Rise described in the blog. There's also a comment of mine here re character traders. I can't speak for all of them but I have always monitored their comments and tried to do a fair write up.


Personal experience. I started mid 2008 and this was my first MMO. Recommended by a colleague who I've spoken to since ingame but didn't approach upon playing - I wanted to do it myself. I'd already read tons of material. Failed the missions badly, hated them. Didn't sub. Started a mining alt, got canflipped/popped, ended up mining in a badger for learning skills (remember when these were 4.5-5m ish for the advanced ones)? So 12 hours on a Saturday mining, ho hum. Luckily I love reading and there's stacks to read. But I still didn't sub. After rolling/biomassing an alt and bbqing myself on the starter undock with an audience - which was actually the first bit of fun, I bought - get this. Tobacco. Put them in a Bantam to go fill an NPC trade buy order. In Pure Blind. Got through into EC (no idea how, didn't even have a prop mod) and BOOM! Then I subbed :)

I ended up mining as a mini career because it looked like a way to learn a basic field as an entry point but I was annoyed that the combat side seemed so difficult. So printed Halada's mining guide off, took it to work etc. A month later I was already annoyed by the slowness of SP acquisition. I got a couple of colleagues to play, they never even subbed. And these were actual gamers. But they rejected the SP system and so has everyone else I've brought in. I'd been recruited into a player group from rookie chat but loathed missions - which was what they mainly did, despite being a mining-mission corp. Actually I did once mine with a load of drunk aussies and I've never heard singing like it since.

So, foruming you find the character bazaar. As a non-gamer, I didn't have any real notion that buying an alt would constitute cheating. So I bought 3 to mine with - including Marsha. Big mistake. Their names are hilariously annoying. They had loads of SP splattered all over. One seller left a bill worth of stuff on the account and some ISK, plus I had a pool of leftover ISK from GTC sales to fund the character purchases. So I mined once for an hour with all three and hated every minute of it. Plus, the ISK ph was terrible. I have one monitor and hate multiboxing, even now. So yeh, sat there grinding my teeth thinking 'you messed up'.

My corpies were really hostile over it, both in that corp and in the next one, and I had endless lectures from people going on and on and on. Some said they'd never sold a Plex and never would, because it's cheating. One guy showed me his 100m SP 2003 alt and ranted about how he'd trained it from scratch and how hard it had been for him. Not a good idea to go on at me, because eventually I zone out and start considering the person talking. And a lot of these people were arrogant, condescending berks. They still are. Most of the people who are really, really SP fixated have acheived naff all ingame. SP is their main status symbol for doing nothing, and they ram it down the neck of newer players. Others who have acheived things don't care so much.

So anyway I started trading with my pool of ISK instead. Sold more Plex but with a view to building up a decent enough wallet that I could Plex indefinitely later. And I rationalised my original character purchase with the following: I knew that I wanted to carry on playing this game indefinitely almost immediately. So I was paying the equivalent of a backsub to CCP and another player. And btw, I made 100b very quickly and have largely played for free for the last 6 years, so my piggy bank theory did work. And my Plex purchases were all made via a credit card. I knew RL redundancy was likely - actively gamed it - so I took my settlement, then ran the CC upto its limit, and offered a settlement figure. So my huge outlay was actually free.

I've done ingame recruitment since then. Including background checks on people who have bought characters from gold sites. I've run into botters, macro users, gold buyers. I don't approve, but there's no point denying it happens, I just don't do it myself. And none of the people who inject cash into game or cheat are more successful at playing than others. The reverse in fact, because they skip over basic mechanics. I had to train all of my purchased alts into combat characters. And learn to play. The one thing I resisted was buying a wtfpwnmobile either to show off or because I'm uber, because it was obviously a bad idea. Might be because I don't have testicles the urge just isn't there. So speaking from experience, mine matches what Rise described as frustration in the first year. And now I don't give a damn about my alts, because they're at 100-170m sp. I don't even use most of them, or log them in.

I also train and trade characters as mentioned on en24. Which means I spend time in rookie chat. I've run a highsec research alliance and been in multiple corps, so I've never stopped talking to new players - which I think some have. And I read everything related to EvE voraciously and remember large portions of it.

That's a purposefully odd answer to your question ;)

It's illogical to blame the losses eve already suffered on a decision they haven't even made yet.

IMO this seems much easier to swallow than things like off grid booster alts. That is pay to win that decreases the enjoyment of the game because you need to drag an alt around while you are supposed to be having fun playing the game.

Oh dear, is that how it is... in this thread...

Tell me how you walked backwards in the snow uphill to Jita to satisfy your ISK grind MMO epeen warrior pride and then made a video about it to inspire other nerds to really enjoy, and promote their bizarro land OCD tendencies. So I can laugh. If poverty stricken students and people from poorer backgrounds do that because they have to, they'll resent it, but they'll earn it. The rest of you are just posing for the sake of it in some sort of neckbeard contest.

Also, some of you are unironically throttling the poors out of game because guess what. Older players have more money, and they can sink it into Plex and RP 'investors' with zero risk. Whilst pointing at the PCU and pretending not to notice their own involvement.

Your bait always pleases me Alavaria, because you force me to elaborate. And I don't care what some nerd thinks of me on the internet. I've been here, on my own all the time. Just like IRL, and annoying other people by being really subversive, obnoxious and challenging is a real blood sport to me.

You need a crowd to validate your ego and stroke you when someone snaps back. I don't. And I know exactly how to rile people with it.

After a bad experience with a pay to win game I joined Eve over a year ago because it was a subscription only game. I understand the bizarre was out there, but it is a limited resource, difficult to use and in place to limit out of game corruption. What is proposed is nothing less than a significant step toward pay to win and all the problems associated with that. My expectation is that this will drive more players away from Eve than it will attract over the long term. I have no interest in moving toward a pay to win game even though this scheme could help my 25 million skill point character with skill points. Just say no.