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Data Site Improvements

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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#81 - 2015-10-05 10:56:21 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
I did some digging about cosmos modules. They are basically easier to fit (lower PG and CPU requirements) and have lower activation costs. They perform as good as T2 mods. Not bad, definatelly something worth so look at in terms of fittings.
Maufacturing is a problem, they using sleepers materials.
Where do you want them in term of cost CCP? Between T2 and deadspace mods?

SpaceSaft wrote:
I thought you're so big on pvp?

Relic + data analyzer, web + scram , mwd is 5 mid slots. That already removes the cheetah and the anathema from the pool of useable ships. The single drone or rocket launcher you can fit on helios and buzzard respectively aren't much, but they're more than other cov ops have usually equipped.

So there really is no space for cargo scanners.

PvP? In covop frig? They are for scanning not fighting.


The majority of storyline & COSMOS modules do not perform as well or better than T2 tech presently. There are a few exceptions to this previous to the current campaign of module iteration. So far only two storyline modules have been placed better than T2 in terms of performance and the drop rate for these particular ones is next to non-existent. In terms of market cost for storyline/COSMOS modules the player market will find a level based on availability and statistics. Price is the lesser problem as they have to all be moved to give better performance than T2 tech across the board in addition to fitting advantages.

Regarding the cargo scanners comment a lot of explorers fit them to judge which exploration cans to open and which to not bother with. They were not necessarily referring to PvP usage of covop frigates.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#82 - 2015-10-05 11:12:55 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
The Astero begs to differ. And any of the cruisers (T3s and Stratios) are more than capable of fending off frigates even while fit for exploration.

When I meant covops frig I meant T2 covops racial frigs, not Astero. When someone is talking about helios and buzzard I presume he wrote about T2 racial covops.
Ransu Asanari wrote:
The Battle Heron and Blaster/Rail Imicus would also like a word with you.
The T2 Covops ships make great covert cyno tacklers due to their price, fast warp speed, and agility.

Heron and Imicus are not covops frigs. T2 racial frigs have paper tank, no use of them in PvP+exploration like Astero. They are meant to hit the cans and run.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
The majority of storyline & COSMOS modules do not perform as well or better than T2 tech presently. There are a few exceptions to this previous to the current campaign of module iteration. So far only two storyline modules have been placed better than T2 in terms of performance and the drop rate for these particular ones is next to non-existent. In terms of market cost for storyline/COSMOS modules the player market will find a level based on availability and statistics. Price is the lesser problem as they have to all be moved to give better performance than T2 tech across the board in addition to fitting advantages.

I was checking prop mods. Weren't they tiercided lately? So performace as T2 but lower fittings and lower cap usage.

So many covops in this post...

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#83 - 2015-10-05 11:16:19 UTC
Arec Bardwin wrote:
I'm glad I bought up all those comos BPCs for cheap over the years Big smile


Invariably for as long as I can remember COSMOS BPCs have never been cheap on channels or on contracts. Occasionally a seller will offer them at a fair price but this doesn't happen that often.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#84 - 2015-10-05 11:19:40 UTC
I hadn't realised some 'bog-standard' propulsion modules have been iterated to out-perform COSMOS modules. If that is the case that is a ridiculous situation.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Canenald
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#85 - 2015-10-05 11:24:13 UTC
The value of sites is dictated by the market value of the loot they drop, so it's not easy to balance just by changing the amount of loot that drops. If you simply boost the number of decryptors that drop, for example, I'd expect it to reduce the price of decryptors more than increase the value of data sites.

I hope that introducing high-value COSMOS materials will help, but it's more likely to reduce the value of those materials unless storyline modules are made more desirable with the module tiericide.

BPCs might also help a little, but they drop so rarely they are more like a little bonus that you get from time to time rather than something that will make people not skip data sites. Again, if you make them drop more often, it will just reduce their value rather than boost data site value.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#86 - 2015-10-05 12:48:40 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Hello all.



Feel free to throw your thoughts, concerns and ideas at me here! Big smile

Fly safe,
CCP RedDawn


Put much better loot into some lo-sec sites and guard with rats ( ie state of play Pre-Odyssey).
Noobs can still fly Magnates with 4 stabs into the unguarded sites, but there will also be the opportunity of increased rewards for those who arrive in better ships or with support.

No need for a complex backstory or epic journey when short of RL time. Make standard lo-sec worth it again, it's dead.

As a hunter of explorers i confess to selfish motives, but pre-Odyssey lo-sec was a much more exciting place and the rewards were there to be had.
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#87 - 2015-10-05 13:01:29 UTC
Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well.
Besieged sites will remain as Anomalies. (and without the required use of the Data Analyzer)

It's been added to the list on the front page.

Team Genesis
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#88 - 2015-10-05 13:04:31 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well.

Just like that? Big smile They should be sigs from day 1.
CCP RedDawn, you must stay longer with us.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#89 - 2015-10-05 13:08:21 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well.

Just like that? Big smile They should be sigs from day 1.
CCP RedDawn, you must stay longer with us.


Ha!

Well I've been about for a while. Just not in the limelight. Smile

Team Genesis
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#90 - 2015-10-05 13:10:40 UTC
Btw, any chance of decreasing volume on ghost sites loot?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#91 - 2015-10-05 13:23:12 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Btw, any chance of decreasing volume on ghost sites loot?


If the overall demand is there, then yes. There's always a chance.

Team Genesis
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#92 - 2015-10-05 13:24:55 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well.
Besieged sites will remain as Anomalies. (and without the required use of the Data Analyzer)

It's been added to the list on the front page.

I'd really prefer to see the Besieged sites as Cosmic Signatures, for the reasons I posted here.

The Ghost Sites changing to Cosmic Signatures is nice, but it doesn't make a huge impact. They can't be camped because the trigger starts as soon as someone warps to them, and they despawn fairly quickly afterwards. They also spawn in Highsec, where the Besieged Sites only spawn in Lowsec.

Any particular reason you're preferring to keep the Besieged sites as Anomalies?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2015-10-05 13:36:07 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well.

Just like that? Big smile They should be sigs from day 1.
CCP RedDawn, you must stay longer with us.


Ha!

Well I've been about for a while. Just not in the limelight. Smile

It was you and CCP Bayesian if I remember correctly who fronted the initial changes to data and relic sites. We appreciate your continued work on these sites and for listening to us for changes and improvements to the sites.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#94 - 2015-10-05 13:38:30 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well.
Besieged sites will remain as Anomalies. (and without the required use of the Data Analyzer)

It's been added to the list on the front page.

I'd really prefer to see the Besieged sites as Cosmic Signatures, for the reasons I posted here.

The Ghost Sites changing to Cosmic Signatures is nice, but it doesn't make a huge impact. They can't be camped because the trigger starts as soon as someone warps to them, and they despawn fairly quickly afterwards. They also spawn in Highsec, where the Besieged Sites only spawn in Lowsec.

Any particular reason you're preferring to keep the Besieged sites as Anomalies?


Reason being that Besieged sites are more of a combat site than a 'Data' exploration site.
Thus the 'less positive' feedback of adding the Data Analyzer as a requirement for the site as it adds more complications to the fitting choice of players wishing to run these Besieged sites.


Team Genesis
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2015-10-05 13:41:03 UTC
What are the thoughts on things like volatile pieces of wreckage in Relic sites which can explode and damage the ship, or corrosive gas clouds to slowly damage the entering ship to include some danger to the site.

Or for Data sites, an alarm unit that unless successfully hack will alert rats, or deploy mines to safe guard the data containers.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#96 - 2015-10-05 13:41:44 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well.

Just like that? Big smile They should be sigs from day 1.
CCP RedDawn, you must stay longer with us.


Ha!

Well I've been about for a while. Just not in the limelight. Smile

It was you and CCP Bayesian if I remember correctly who fronted the initial changes to data and relic sites. We appreciate your continued work on these sites and for listening to us for changes and improvements to the sites.


Indeed it was. Both of us designed the hacking game and have continually pushed to have our full vision of it realised.
What's out there on TQ right now is far from how we originally intended it to be.

That being said however, anyone with any experience with game development knows, everything has a priority.

Team Genesis
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#97 - 2015-10-05 13:46:30 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
What are the thoughts on things like volatile pieces of wreckage in Relic sites which can explode and damage the ship, or corrosive gas clouds to slowly damage the entering ship to include some danger to the site.

Or for Data sites, an alarm unit that unless successfully hack will alert rats, or deploy mines to safe guard the data containers.


I'm all for changes like this that increase the demand on player ability and potentially harm them if mistakes are made.
As long as they're fair.

An alarm based Defensive Subsystem inside the hacking UI was one of the initial goals that had to be dropped due to time constraints, but it's something I would like to see revisited in the future.
A relic based alternative is something I would like to do in tandem with that change.

Team Genesis
Gypsys Bear
Godspeed Us To Sea
The Gorgon Spawn
#98 - 2015-10-05 13:59:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsys Bear
CCP RedDawn wrote:

* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books)
* Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites)
* Introduced all Cosmos site building materials to all 4 tiers of Data sites.
* Introduced the higher tiered (higher value) Cosmos site building materials to all class wormhole Data sites. (C1 to C6)
* Increased the drop frequency of the Cosmos sites items that are currently on the Data site loot tables.
* All exploration Ghost Sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module.
* Halved the drop amount of the most commonly used building materials found in all data sites. (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc)
* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.

* Good.
* MJD, ASB, RAH and TSB BPC? Bad, players can manufacture fueled modules everywhere in EVE with it BPC.
* Good. But it must be rarely.
* If you want to build 10MN Analog Booster Rockets try to find materials, use brains and some google. So, or remove stationar complexes with cosmos materials. Clever newbee can earn billions in stationar plexes with frigate, light drones and Relic analyser I
* Yes. I find 4 domi medium POS BPC, but only 2 angel dinamic calibrator in exploration sites :(
* Warp and hack? Bad idea, if you want to explore and hack use modules and train skills. Don`t make it easy and safely.
* Need 10%-25% from the current value. After 100-200-300 data sites (with all loot) i have thousands Positron Cords. Too mush for any manufacturing

Quote:
The intention of this change is to hopefully boost the overall value of all Data sites, increase the manufacturing of Storyline modules, increase the demand for Cosmos site blueprints and increase the value of the most commonly dropped building materials.

So, now Stotyline modules very rare and bad to use them. What about role bonus for cosmos items without another changes?

Quote:

Note: The similarities of the Data and Relic hacking game are known, as is the Cargo Scanning/Cherry Picking of containers.
Both of these are outside the scope of my free time right now however but are not forgotten.

What kind information do you need? Statistics or something more specific?
Cargo scanner needed some randomize results and don`t show all materials in cans. Now i can scan all cand, see trash in all and warp out without hack and all the others too.
Actually, hacking data sites more difficult than relic. It`s good.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#99 - 2015-10-05 14:39:52 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Btw, any chance of decreasing volume on ghost sites loot?
If the overall demand is there, then yes. There's always a chance.

I meant decrease volume from 1m3 to less -> 0,1m3 or 0.01m3. Overall item drop volume should be increased I think. For now manufacturing low level implants is not worth a hassle.
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Indeed it was. Both of us designed the hacking game and have continually pushed to have our full vision of it realised.
What's out there on TQ right now is far from how we originally intended it to be.

How far is it? 50% of the original project? Less?

Omnathious Deninard wrote:
What are the thoughts on things like volatile pieces of wreckage in Relic sites which can explode and damage the ship, or corrosive gas clouds to slowly damage the entering ship to include some danger to the site.

Or for Data sites, an alarm unit that unless successfully hack will alert rats, or deploy mines to safe guard the data containers.

I almost get caught by some Stain dwellers lately. D-scan and cloak saved me. So if there were some object on grid that prevent cloaking easily. So it would matter how you possition your ship on grid vs the hacking can? It would be like cloaked submarine, watching surrondings, for mines, corrosive clouds, defense units and object on grid that can decloak you or prevent cloaking when hostiles land on grid.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Aivlis Eldelbar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#100 - 2015-10-05 14:52:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivlis Eldelbar
CCP RedDawn wrote:

Indeed it was. Both of us designed the hacking game and have continually pushed to have our full vision of it realised.
What's out there on TQ right now is far from how we originally intended it to be.


That explains quite a few things. I'd love to know how "done" it is from your pov, but I realize you might now want or be allowed to share that tidbit.

On a related note, do you envision the hacking minigame being used outside exploration? For interfacing with deployables for example?

I also wanted to thank you for listening to us, and for the fast answers. It's really comforting to know this part of the game I so enjoy is not forgotten.