These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Share your experiences with Fozziesov!

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#881 - 2015-08-19 23:17:38 UTC
Anyone who doesn't love the sov changes must be an afk empire

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#882 - 2015-08-19 23:27:20 UTC
Boredom in Goonswarm must be reaching new levels if you're thinking about MOA.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#883 - 2015-08-19 23:32:32 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Boredom in Goonswarm must be reaching new levels if you're thinking about MOA.


We think about them a lot because we genuinely feel bad for them.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#884 - 2015-08-20 00:24:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

What large afk empire? My alliance holds 28 systems, we use them, I know, I rat in them lol.

It's not that you don't understand what I'm talking about, it's that you don't want to. Frankly, I don't understand the idea of someone not wanting to know the truth of a situation. People who can't see past their own narrow (and in your case, outsider) perspective probably sholdn't join in on discussions like this, as most of the discussion will fly over your head.

Answer my question, how would you like the null-secification of your wormhole space? I mean, it would be ok right, seeing as you're fully happy with CCPs lowseccing of null?

And the entosis ship speed changes? Why are you stuck on the troll ceptor thing, trollceptors are nothing, gnats easily swatted. The issue is the focus of the Sov system being "small force wackamole" ala FW that gets REALLY tired after about 15 seconds even when you win the contest (and we have) rather than being one that encourages fleet fights (hopefully without the excesses of Dominion Sov) like CCP has been advertising to us for 12 years

I can deal with tidi, I can't stomach games of whackamole much. Thankfully since very little SOV challenging is going on for about 200 light years around me, I don't have to worry about being called to a snore fleet very often. But it's a shame, CCP missed an opportunity to strengthen the sandbox (with a no-sov option) rather than dampen it with this over-engineered monstrosity called Aegis.


Every alliance I've been in with any character, 80% of systems are empty at any given moment. Including CFC and Test. If you aren't big enough to have at least 2-3 pilots in every system on a daily basis, you're too big for the space you have.

That's the point here.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#885 - 2015-08-20 04:57:52 UTC
What time zones are you visiting

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kant Boards
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#886 - 2015-08-20 05:03:44 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Every alliance I've been in with any character, 80% of systems are empty at any given moment. Including CFC and Test.

You crazy. I cant go anywhere in our region without tripping over 10 karmafleet guys.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#887 - 2015-08-20 05:07:30 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

What large afk empire? My alliance holds 28 systems, we use them, I know, I rat in them lol.

It's not that you don't understand what I'm talking about, it's that you don't want to. Frankly, I don't understand the idea of someone not wanting to know the truth of a situation. People who can't see past their own narrow (and in your case, outsider) perspective probably sholdn't join in on discussions like this, as most of the discussion will fly over your head.

Answer my question, how would you like the null-secification of your wormhole space? I mean, it would be ok right, seeing as you're fully happy with CCPs lowseccing of null?

And the entosis ship speed changes? Why are you stuck on the troll ceptor thing, trollceptors are nothing, gnats easily swatted. The issue is the focus of the Sov system being "small force wackamole" ala FW that gets REALLY tired after about 15 seconds even when you win the contest (and we have) rather than being one that encourages fleet fights (hopefully without the excesses of Dominion Sov) like CCP has been advertising to us for 12 years

I can deal with tidi, I can't stomach games of whackamole much. Thankfully since very little SOV challenging is going on for about 200 light years around me, I don't have to worry about being called to a snore fleet very often. But it's a shame, CCP missed an opportunity to strengthen the sandbox (with a no-sov option) rather than dampen it with this over-engineered monstrosity called Aegis.


Every alliance I've been in with any character, 80% of systems are empty at any given moment. Including CFC and Test. If you aren't big enough to have at least 2-3 pilots in every system on a daily basis, you're too big for the space you have.

That's the point here.

So why aren't the "small guys" taking said systems from the "big bad evil sov holders"? I mean from your experience and perception the "big bad null guys" are too big for the amount of system they hold.

Fozzie Sov pretty much got rid of structure grinds so the "small guys" no longer have any excuse of MUH SUPERS.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#888 - 2015-08-20 05:12:02 UTC
Tell moa about these empty systems of ours, I think they were invading us

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#889 - 2015-08-20 05:12:40 UTC
It keeps going and going and ...

FYI, this thread ended back at 741, and arguably earlier than that.
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#890 - 2015-08-20 06:42:20 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:


Every alliance I've been in with any character, 80% of systems are empty at any given moment. Including CFC and Test. If you aren't big enough to have at least 2-3 pilots in every system on a daily basis, you're too big for the space you have.

That's the point here.


AU timezone opinion doesn't count :P
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#891 - 2015-08-20 06:52:33 UTC
My experiences with fozzie sov can be loosely summarised thus: https://zkillboard.com/character/301445721/

It IS possible for sov alliances to deploy: we've done so

It IS possible to have great fights through sov: we've done so

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#892 - 2015-08-20 07:09:46 UTC
I see that Northern Coalition. has made some bad choices in recent history.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Falken Falcon
#893 - 2015-08-20 07:13:57 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
My experiences with fozzie sov can be loosely summarised thus: https://zkillboard.com/character/301445721/

It IS possible for sov alliances to deploy: we've done so

It IS possible to have great fights through sov: we've done so

Can confirm.

CCP just gotta phase out the "sov trolling" tactics and fozzysov is golden.

Aye, Sea Turtles
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#894 - 2015-08-20 07:29:20 UTC
Falken Falcon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
My experiences with fozzie sov can be loosely summarised thus: https://zkillboard.com/character/301445721/

It IS possible for sov alliances to deploy: we've done so

It IS possible to have great fights through sov: we've done so

Can confirm.

CCP just gotta phase out the "sov trolling" tactics and fozzysov is golden.



"Sov trolling" - a term used by people who think that undocking an interceptor in their prime time to defend a system is far too much to expect, but simultaneously think that it's far too little for an attacker to ante up.

If you're not going to muster sufficient defence to ward off a single ship, why would anyone bother to send more?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Salvos Rhoska
#895 - 2015-08-20 08:37:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Jenn aSide wrote:
No one is expecting perfection, but CCP saying to us that one of the lynchpin activities (fleet battles) that drew some of us in just aren't on the menu is a hefty kick in the teeth.


My reading between the lines of the dev blog numbered goals suggests this pretty strongly too.

They are moving away from large fleet battles and attempting to disperse conflict over more systems simultaneously.

Like that direction or not, or the means they are implementing to achieve that, but that much seems to be the underlying theme to the new goals.

Im not sure why, but I expect its reasonable to assume this is at lesst partly to avoid TiDi, save on server costs?, take some of the edge off sheer overpower of some existing bloc vs smaller aggressors, diversify and disperse fronts in an attempt to make sov ownership more dynamic.

Its arguable though, I think, whether sov mechanics, in any of its forms, have ever really been a deciding factor in large fleet battles happening in the first place.

Fights should be, I think, ultimately, what decide sov. PvP and explosions.
The concept of indexes of activity, I like, as it helps promote other kinds of activity for a potential net benefit.
I think indexes are a great direction to continue development on, as it improves value based on player activity in the sandbox.

Trick is finding a way to connect sov capture and ownership mechanics (allowing for reaction time) to PvP in a way that promotes fights, sooner or later.

At the two ends of the spectrum of solutions:
HTFU- No rules. Everything can be blown up. Might is right. Enormous risk for sov holders that requires constant vigilance.
Non-player mechanics- Sov is secured by artificial timers and capture/ownership mechanics that placate risk towards the reality of players not being at their PC 24/7.

I agree Aegis is "over-engineered". Its very complicated and unintuitive. Despite hours reading on the mechanics, Im still unclear on all of it. Somewhere down the development line, it forgot what its trying to achieve and lost focus on a central goal. (Or Im too stupid and/or unexperienced to "get" it, fair enough).

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Falken Falcon
#896 - 2015-08-20 08:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Falken Falcon
Malcanis wrote:
Falken Falcon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
My experiences with fozzie sov can be loosely summarised thus: https://zkillboard.com/character/301445721/

It IS possible for sov alliances to deploy: we've done so

It IS possible to have great fights through sov: we've done so

Can confirm.

CCP just gotta phase out the "sov trolling" tactics and fozzysov is golden.



"Sov trolling" - a term used by people who think that undocking an interceptor in their prime time to defend a system is far too much to expect, but simultaneously think that it's far too little for an attacker to ante up.

If you're not going to muster sufficient defence to ward off a single ship, why would anyone bother to send more?
I get what you are saying. It is usually a huge disapointment when you muster the 40 man cerb fleet expecting a fight, but just when the fleet undocks, the scout(s) reports that it was 3 people in dessies and they are already bugging out when they saw the ceptor. vOv

Aye, Sea Turtles
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#897 - 2015-08-20 10:09:10 UTC
You don't need 40 Cerberus

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#898 - 2015-08-20 10:34:02 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
My experiences with fozzie sov can be loosely summarised thus: https://zkillboard.com/character/301445721/

It IS possible for sov alliances to deploy: we've done so

It IS possible to have great fights through sov: we've done so
It's also possible to survive 4 miles of freefall into a train station roof without a parachute, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to rely on that as your method of leaving a plane. Sov mechanics, like FW mechanics can be used to generate conflict if both sides actively seek it, but don't drive conflict.

Malcanis wrote:
"Sov trolling" - a term used by people who think that undocking an interceptor in their prime time to defend a system is far too much to expect, but simultaneously think that it's far too little for an attacker to ante up.

If you're not going to muster sufficient defence to ward off a single ship, why would anyone bother to send more?
That's not the point though, is it. It's boring to chase a ship you know is deigned specifically to evade and is disposable in the odd time it's caught. The whole idea of sov is to create conflict. With sov trolling existing, even groups who used to create conflict now opt to run away.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Snowmann
Arrow Industries
#899 - 2015-08-20 12:26:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Snowmann
Lucas Kell wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
My experiences with fozzie sov can be loosely summarised thus: https://zkillboard.com/character/301445721/

It IS possible for sov alliances to deploy: we've done so

It IS possible to have great fights through sov: we've done so
It's also possible to survive 4 miles of freefall into a train station roof without a parachute, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to rely on that as your method of leaving a plane. Sov mechanics, like FW mechanics can be used to generate conflict if both sides actively seek it, but don't drive conflict.

Malcanis wrote:
"Sov trolling" - a term used by people who think that undocking an interceptor in their prime time to defend a system is far too much to expect, but simultaneously think that it's far too little for an attacker to ante up.

If you're not going to muster sufficient defence to ward off a single ship, why would anyone bother to send more?
That's not the point though, is it. It's boring to chase a ship you know is deigned specifically to evade and is disposable in the odd time it's caught. The whole idea of sov is to create conflict. With sov trolling existing, even groups who used to create conflict now opt to run away.



Its creating conflict, lots of conflict, just look at the forums.
Oh yeah, just not conflict on your terms.

Gotta hate those guys who won't fight on your terms...

Like Sun Tzu

Quote:

If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.



Key points:
-If he is in superior strength, evade him
-If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him
-If he is taking his ease, give him no rest
-Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected

Sun Zu says that attack where your enemy is weakest, not where they are strongest.

You demand battles on your terms that are fun but that isn't the point.
You are simply being attacked by the very principles of Sun Zu and you cannot or will not adapt.
And those who are doing it are having fun, at your expense.

It is so amazing that he new form of Sov actually allows us as players to implement tactics and strategy in Sov warfare from the Art of War at such a fundamental level.

And it is so interesting to see some of those with the best gear in the game being unable to adapt.


Edit: Silly typo, thanks Lucas!
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#900 - 2015-08-20 12:42:30 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

What large afk empire? My alliance holds 28 systems, we use them, I know, I rat in them lol.

It's not that you don't understand what I'm talking about, it's that you don't want to. Frankly, I don't understand the idea of someone not wanting to know the truth of a situation. People who can't see past their own narrow (and in your case, outsider) perspective probably sholdn't join in on discussions like this, as most of the discussion will fly over your head.

Answer my question, how would you like the null-secification of your wormhole space? I mean, it would be ok right, seeing as you're fully happy with CCPs lowseccing of null?

And the entosis ship speed changes? Why are you stuck on the troll ceptor thing, trollceptors are nothing, gnats easily swatted. The issue is the focus of the Sov system being "small force wackamole" ala FW that gets REALLY tired after about 15 seconds even when you win the contest (and we have) rather than being one that encourages fleet fights (hopefully without the excesses of Dominion Sov) like CCP has been advertising to us for 12 years

I can deal with tidi, I can't stomach games of whackamole much. Thankfully since very little SOV challenging is going on for about 200 light years around me, I don't have to worry about being called to a snore fleet very often. But it's a shame, CCP missed an opportunity to strengthen the sandbox (with a no-sov option) rather than dampen it with this over-engineered monstrosity called Aegis.


Every alliance I've been in with any character, 80% of systems are empty at any given moment. Including CFC and Test. If you aren't big enough to have at least 2-3 pilots in every system on a daily basis, you're too big for the space you have.

That's the point here.

So why aren't the "small guys" taking said systems from the "big bad evil sov holders"? I mean from your experience and perception the "big bad null guys" are too big for the amount of system they hold.

Fozzie Sov pretty much got rid of structure grinds so the "small guys" no longer have any excuse of MUH SUPERS.


Demonstrating that the problem was never "all those damn supers", it was "all that damn weakness and lack of drive" of the small guys. Lots of people (in game and in life) hide behind the idea that they can't win because of some per-existing condition, which is how they convince themselves to not even try in the 1st place (thus protecting them from the potential sting of defeat).