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Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#501 - 2015-08-07 10:34:06 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
You forgot the part where any major WH entity is dug in real hard with full moon coverage and no way to realistically evict them in interceptors with magical sov mining laser I.


You can't realistically evict a major null entity with interceptors and sov lasers either. All you can do is annoy them a bit.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#502 - 2015-08-07 10:35:41 UTC
All I'm hearing is more excuses from nullsec dwellers about how hard it is to fight things.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
B0RG 0VERLORD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#503 - 2015-08-07 10:46:01 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
All I'm hearing is more excuses from nullsec dwellers about how hard it is to fight things.



if you don't live out in null then i think your opinion shouldn't count towards anything related to this patch,as it has no relevance to hs dwellers

Does CCP mean crap coding people
Salvos Rhoska
#504 - 2015-08-07 10:51:08 UTC
B0RG 0VERLORD wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
All I'm hearing is more excuses from nullsec dwellers about how hard it is to fight things.



if you don't live out in null then i think your opinion shouldn't count towards anything related to this patch,as it has no relevance to hs dwellers


Perhaps true.

But inversly that hasnt ever stopped null residents lobbying on HS changes.
(Though admittedly everyones got an alt in HS anyways)

Just sayin'.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#505 - 2015-08-07 10:58:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
B0RG 0VERLORD wrote:
if you don't live out in null then i think your opinion shouldn't count towards anything related to this patch,as it has no relevance to hs dwellers

If all nullsec dwellers can agree to shut up about anything in empire or wormhole space, I would consider not talking about nullsec (despite the fact that I lived in nullsec very recently) a perfectly reasonable tradeoff.

I look forward to the imminent end to "nerf hisec" threads.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Akballah Kassan
Flames Of Chaos
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#506 - 2015-08-07 11:11:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Akballah Kassan
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
mydingaling wrote:
The endgame of this brutal space mmo has invincible stations, uncatchable ships and magic space capture wand devices.

You know why? Because Goonswarm objected to the idea of destructible stations.


Why so you can destroy what groups of people worked for for years and have it go poof. Making stations destructible sets the precedent that even NPC owned stations should be destroyed.

Because if no one can have their player owned station why should you be immune in your NPC owned station.


They should allow stations to be destroyed, any assets trapped there get teleported to your Capital system. If that is destroyed they get transfered to the nearest low/null npc station. If station is held by an attacker enemy assets remained trapped in station.

Keeping or destroying stations then becomes an important tactical choice for an attacker.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#507 - 2015-08-07 11:11:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Gallowmere Rorschach
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
B0RG 0VERLORD wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
All I'm hearing is more excuses from nullsec dwellers about how hard it is to fight things.



if you don't live out in null then i think your opinion shouldn't count towards anything related to this patch,as it has no relevance to hs dwellers


Perhaps true.

But inversly that hasnt ever stopped null residents lobbying on HS changes.
(Though admittedly everyones got an alt in HS anyways)

Just sayin'.

I actually have three hisec alts. ;)
Akballah Kassan
Flames Of Chaos
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#508 - 2015-08-07 11:16:41 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
It was stagnant which is why we were in support of the change, but there were still fights. Now it's even more stagnant with considerably less fights and nearly no chance of a large scale battle that hits international news.


Your alliance just semi-blued all your new small neighbours who moved into Cloud Ring so your alliance can have no complaints about lack of fights!
Akballah Kassan
Flames Of Chaos
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#509 - 2015-08-07 11:19:32 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
More importantly, why would anyone want to live out of a player owned station if it could be blown up? I guarantee that if they ever put this in you'll see the whole of sov null relocate in and around NPC stations so we can base most of our stuff in indestructible stations yet still use sov space as we do now.


Would you still feel that way if stations could be blown up but assets trapped inside get teleported somewhere else once station goes pop?
Akballah Kassan
Flames Of Chaos
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#510 - 2015-08-07 11:25:16 UTC
Akballah Kassan wrote:
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
[quote=mydingaling]The endgame of this brutal space mmo has invincible stations, uncatchable ships and magic space capture wand devices.

You know why? Because Goonswarm objected to the idea of destructible stations.


Why so you can destroy what groups of people worked for for years and have it go poof. Making stations destructible sets the precedent that even NPC owned stations should be destroyed.

Because if no one can have their player owned station why should you be immune in your NPC owned station.


They should allow stations to be destroyed, any assets trapped there get teleported to your Capital system. If that is destroyed they get transfered to the nearest low/null npc station. If station is held by an attacker the enemies assets remained trapped in station.

Keeping or destroying stations then becomes an important tactical choice for an attacker.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#511 - 2015-08-07 11:35:41 UTC
Akballah Kassan wrote:
Akballah Kassan wrote:
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
[quote=mydingaling]The endgame of this brutal space mmo has invincible stations, uncatchable ships and magic space capture wand devices.

You know why? Because Goonswarm objected to the idea of destructible stations.


Why so you can destroy what groups of people worked for for years and have it go poof. Making stations destructible sets the precedent that even NPC owned stations should be destroyed.

Because if no one can have their player owned station why should you be immune in your NPC owned station.


They should allow stations to be destroyed, any assets trapped there get teleported to your Capital system. If that is destroyed they get transfered to the nearest low/null npc station. If station is held by an attacker the enemies assets remained trapped in station.

Keeping or destroying stations then becomes an important tactical choice for an attacker.

The problem with that, is that it could be gamed by defenders in a **** hit the fan scenario.
Stations are expensive, but they're not as expensive as a trapped capital fleet, for example.
Akballah Kassan
Flames Of Chaos
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#512 - 2015-08-07 12:46:55 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:

The problem with that, is that it could be gamed by defenders in a **** hit the fan scenario.
Stations are expensive, but they're not as expensive as a trapped capital fleet, for example.

Not sure I understand what you mean.

If the attackers know an enemy capital fleet is trapped in a station that gets captured the attackers would have a choice to hold the station and trap the capitals or destroy the station for strategic value and let the caps 'escape' to the enemy capital.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#513 - 2015-08-07 12:55:13 UTC
Akballah Kassan wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:

The problem with that, is that it could be gamed by defenders in a **** hit the fan scenario.
Stations are expensive, but they're not as expensive as a trapped capital fleet, for example.

Not sure I understand what you mean.

If the attackers know an enemy capital fleet is trapped in a station that gets captured the attackers would have a choice to hold the station and trap the capitals or destroy the station for strategic value and let the caps 'escape' to the enemy capital.


What prevent me from having an "accidental" friendly fire incident on the station when I know **** is hitting the fan?
Akballah Kassan
Flames Of Chaos
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#514 - 2015-08-07 13:44:57 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Akballah Kassan wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:

The problem with that, is that it could be gamed by defenders in a **** hit the fan scenario.
Stations are expensive, but they're not as expensive as a trapped capital fleet, for example.

Not sure I understand what you mean.

If the attackers know an enemy capital fleet is trapped in a station that gets captured the attackers would have a choice to hold the station and trap the capitals or destroy the station for strategic value and let the caps 'escape' to the enemy capital.


What prevent me from having an "accidental" friendly fire incident on the station when I know **** is hitting the fan?


I must be missing something. How would that effect anything?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#515 - 2015-08-07 13:49:39 UTC
Akballah Kassan wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Akballah Kassan wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:

The problem with that, is that it could be gamed by defenders in a **** hit the fan scenario.
Stations are expensive, but they're not as expensive as a trapped capital fleet, for example.

Not sure I understand what you mean.

If the attackers know an enemy capital fleet is trapped in a station that gets captured the attackers would have a choice to hold the station and trap the capitals or destroy the station for strategic value and let the caps 'escape' to the enemy capital.


What prevent me from having an "accidental" friendly fire incident on the station when I know **** is hitting the fan?


I must be missing something. How would that effect anything?


1- Failcascade happeneing
2- Lots of assets still trapped in station under control but not enough time to form a move/evac OP
3- Rush for shell alliance with a bunch of guy transfering
4- Shoot your station
5- Assets transfered for you to nearest safe station where it can't really be trapped/destroyed

Losing a bunch of suicide dread beat losing an entire staging station worth of assets if you get dropped on anyway.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#516 - 2015-08-07 14:13:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Frostys Virpio wrote:
1- Failcascade happeneing
2- Lots of assets still trapped in station under control but not enough time to form a move/evac OP
3- Rush for shell alliance with a bunch of guy transfering
4- Shoot your station
5- Assets transfered for you to nearest safe station where it can't really be trapped/destroyed

Losing a bunch of suicide dread beat losing an entire staging station worth of assets if you get dropped on anyway.

Let us not forget that they are transferred with no chance in hell of being intercepted too (as per suggestion).
And also it gets around having to have several alts per capital to jump drive them over region with minimal penalties.

We nerfed gun mining, but now people are suggesting gun hauling...

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
John E Normus
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#517 - 2015-08-07 15:38:58 UTC
How about if a station gets popped the stuff inside drops right there in a big, cracked station egg wreck?

Teleporting? LOL

Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#518 - 2015-08-07 15:41:57 UTC
John E Normus wrote:
How about if a station gets popped the stuff inside drops right there in a big, cracked station egg wreck?

Teleporting? LOL


Let me make a list of the valuable assets alliance will be willing to leave in stations beside the very bare minimum while moving everything else in NPC ones that can't be destroyed.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#519 - 2015-08-07 17:22:09 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
But as ive asked a dozen times before, what exactly keeps you from taking a fleet and kicking your neighbors ass, nothing.
What stops all the hard done by "small groups" forming up a giant group and taking sov by force? Nothing. What stops groups actually fighting when they fly into sov holders space rather than bringing shitfit interceptors and running away? Nothing. Don't act like the entire problem is us just because you think it should be our responsibility to work with crappy mechanics.

We could go out and create fights risking our sov in the process while we're deployed. Alternatively we can find likeminded people and arrange content between ourselves with little risk to our space and continue as ever we did during dominion.

The whole idea of this sov systems was to make it fun enough for both sides that people would want to engage with it. Since it's not, there no reason for us to do anything beyond what we used to do, and since it's simpler to both attack and defend, we don;t even need to create the big battles we used to have periodically. This system will create more stagnation than dominion sov. It's not up to us to turn a crappy mechanic into content.

Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Stop posting, get off your space butts and find another alliance to entoss and show up when its battle time, easy.
No thanks, I'm not into mining structures.

Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
And on the issue of stagnant it will change not when CCP comes up with some magic mechanic it will occur when you make it occur.
Then it won't happen and null will remain the area we farm between highsec gank ops.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#520 - 2015-08-07 17:28:28 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Why does every discussion of escalation have to come back to BR5? Why does everyone seem to want every fleet engagement to have the possibility of turning into BR5? Yes, it was certainly an impressive engagement in terms of sheer scale but do we really want every battle to turn into an 8-hour 75% TiDi slugfest?
I think it's because following BR5 there were international news articles (in mainstream news, not just gaming news) and an influx of new players. That's what drives people to the game. "Come and play whack-a-mole in space" isn't.

Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Chosing to not lose everything you own isn't risk aversion, it's common sense.

People who live in wormhole space do this all the time. Are you essentially conceding that wormhole dwellers are less risk-averse and more committed to the spirit of EVE than nullsec dewllers? Because if so, I wholeheartedly agree.
I definitely would say they are less risk averse, yes. I certainly wouldn't suggest they put as much at risk as would be at risk if stations could explode though. Wormholers on an individual level risk a hell of a lot more than most null line members, but very few risk everything.

Akballah Kassan wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
It was stagnant which is why we were in support of the change, but there were still fights. Now it's even more stagnant with considerably less fights and nearly no chance of a large scale battle that hits international news.
Your alliance just semi-blued all your new small neighbours who moved into Cloud Ring so your alliance can have no complaints about lack of fights!
That's an attempt to generate fights by taking sov off the table during the battles. We won't be blue, we simply won't use entosis links. None of the serious null players want to be messing around with the new sov system more than they absolutely need to. Why? Because it's boring.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.