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Share your experiences with Fozziesov!

First post First post
Author
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#461 - 2015-08-06 22:36:07 UTC
Akballah Kassan wrote:
So what things can Pro Fozzie vs No Fozzie sides agree upon?

1) More of an isk loss for attackers (and maybe defenders) who flee the field - we vary wildly on how much isk loss and how it should be lost but the principle is there I think.

2) Less node spawn. I think ten is a good number simply because (if I understand correctly) capturing a node increases your score by 5% from a 50/50 base. If that is the case a proper attack for sov capture can be completed by 10 entosis pilots with just one round of attacks if nobody shows up to defend.

3) The recapture of disputed sov should automatically go back to the former owner after a certain amount of time (2 days?) if nobody turns up to complete the job.

Would anybody argue against those changes in principle?

These would certainly go a long way toward reducing how ridiculous the system is, as it currently stands.
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#462 - 2015-08-06 22:48:14 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ganking is emergent gameplay. It's also not performed in space anyone has any claim on and you have the ability to be completely immune to it. I have my issues with the balance of that too, but using that as an excuse to support a mechanic which is boring by design is incredibly weak.


Sov holders can be immune to trollceptors in pretty much the same way as highseccers can be immune to ganking.

Replace "don't fly through Uedama or Niarja" with "don't drop sov structures".

Replace "bring a webber and a support fleet everywhere you haul" with "park a brick-tanked defensive elink cruiser on your structures of note during primetime".

The counter play to ganking is not more or less boring than the counter play to trollceptors. If your argument is that having to do arbitrary/menial things best relegated to alts in order to counter game mechanics is bad for EVE, well... there's going to be a lot more to fix than just trollceptors.


Salvos Rhoska
#463 - 2015-08-06 23:04:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Snowmann wrote:


4) I like the idea of requiring more simultaneous active Entosis links to challenge Sov in a higher Defensive Index system.


Lucas suggested this also:
"2. Full defense index should require multiple simultaneous links to get started (2 or 3)"

As I read your comment above, it struck me that this is perhaps exactly the kind of deliberate escalation which leads to larger concerted and orchestrated battles. This would be both good and bad.

Bad, because the onus of protection on key and developed systems should reside with the defender.
Requiring more links on the part of the aggressor raises the threshold (but, inversly this is reciprocated by the earned and deserved higher Defence index of the target).
Sun Tzu would advise against attacking your enemy where they are entrenched and strong, especially if you have to invest heavily to form your aggressive foothold as well as telegraph your commitment. So this change would advantage the defender.

Good, because this is exactly the kind of escalation which leads to epic fleet battles which, for better or worse, define EVE.
Just have to hope you brought enough, at the right time, and the right stuff to the fight then, rather than expanding through less defended space.

So makes sense for gaming glory, but not so much strategically...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#464 - 2015-08-07 00:59:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

I've have never and will never own a super or a titan.



Hell, even a carrier is a coffin. It's why I made this guy, who has eventually become my main.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#465 - 2015-08-07 02:20:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
alpha36 wrote:
Akballah Kassan wrote:
I think you just blew Lucas Kell's arguement about entosis wars being boring out of the water.

Entosis wars are boring. ALL sov holders hate it, nobody wants to mount a new sov campaign in the current system. The only people who like it dont have sov. The map will never change, stagnation increases, EVE dies. The end.

All sov holders hate a system the devs knew they would hate.

Non sov holders are using the new game mechanic designed for them to make holding sov harder for sov holders and it is working.

Working as intended then, thanks for pointing that out.


MEANWHILE.....

So you also admit nullsec was stagnate.

Further you admit that the map never changes (the reason being that you form non agression pacts and dont fight each other but instead speak as a singular voice on every issue because all the members of nullsec have become bed-buddies).

it is these last two points that are killing EVE, not the first two.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

lord xavier
Rubbed Out
#466 - 2015-08-07 02:22:04 UTC
We've seen alot more content in lowsec. FozzieSov is a success!!Roll
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#467 - 2015-08-07 02:30:30 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

Further you admit that the map never changes (the reason being that you form non agression pacts and dont fight each other but instead speak as a singular voice on every issue because all the members of nullsec have become bed-buddies).

it is these last two points that are killing EVE, not the first two.

We'll probably go back to war with each other when CCP stops giving us reasons to unify against them instead.

Most of this **** accelerated after Phoebe. Imagine that.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#468 - 2015-08-07 02:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Kiandoshia wrote:
The core point of feedback is pretty visible through all the politics and shiptoasting.

It's boring

People who like it only like it because it's boring the people they don't like =p


What you meant to say is the people that dont like it are fine with annoying the rest of new eden en masse but hate it when the rest of new eden returns the favor.

And you calling out, " politics and shiptoasting", that is coloring the kettle black.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#469 - 2015-08-07 02:37:35 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

Further you admit that the map never changes (the reason being that you form non agression pacts and dont fight each other but instead speak as a singular voice on every issue because all the members of nullsec have become bed-buddies).

it is these last two points that are killing EVE, not the first two.

We'll probably go back to war with each other when CCP stops giving us reasons to unify against them instead.

Most of this **** accelerated after Phoebe. Imagine that.


It was your own words that nullsec WAS stagnate, meaning long before ccp fozzie was instructed to make sov changes, now all of a sudden it used to be a mecca of space carnage, come on guy your own ******* words not mine and you deny them in your very next post, when you nullsec types blow smoke up peoples behinds you go all in.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#470 - 2015-08-07 02:44:06 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

It was your own words that nullsec WAS stagnate, meaning long before ccp fozzie was instructed to make sov changes, now all of a sudden it used to be a mecca of space carnage, come on guy your own ******* words not mine and you deny them in your very next post, when you nullsec types blow smoke up peoples behinds you go all in.

No, it was stagnating; that's not up for debate. However, it has accelerated since Phoebe.

Even the Russians appear to have very little interest in fighting under this new system. Do you have any idea how ****** up something has to be for that to happen?
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#471 - 2015-08-07 02:45:52 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Akballah Kassan wrote:
So what things can Pro Fozzie vs No Fozzie sides agree upon?

1) More of an isk loss for attackers (and maybe defenders) who flee the field - we vary wildly on how much isk loss and how it should be lost but the principle is there I think.

2) Less node spawn. I think ten is a good number simply because (if I understand correctly) capturing a node increases your score by 5% from a 50/50 base. If that is the case a proper attack for sov capture can be completed by 10 entosis pilots with just one round of attacks if nobody shows up to defend.

3) The recapture of disputed sov should automatically go back to the former owner after a certain amount of time (2 days?) if nobody turns up to complete the job.

Would anybody argue against those changes in principle?

These would certainly go a long way toward reducing how ridiculous the system is, as it currently stands.


1. No, entrenched nullsec has isk to burn and new up and coming corps wont. No ISK fights.

2. Prevent is the key not respond later, this is a central goal of fozziesov and the chief failing of the current holders of sov in their defensive posture.

3. No, if you hold sov dont be lazy put in the leg work or give up sov.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#472 - 2015-08-07 02:56:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

It was your own words that nullsec WAS stagnate, meaning long before ccp fozzie was instructed to make sov changes, now all of a sudden it used to be a mecca of space carnage, come on guy your own ******* words not mine and you deny them in your very next post, when you nullsec types blow smoke up peoples behinds you go all in.

No, it was stagnating; that's not up for debate. However, it has accelerated since Phoebe.

Even the Russians appear to have very little interest in fighting under this new system. Do you have any idea how ****** up something has to be for that to happen?


What is stopping you exactly from getting in your ships and blasting the bejesus out of your neighbor, nothing before nothing now, except you dont want to.

If you (nullsec) expect that any system is going to make you fight when you are dead set against doing so there is no such system that wouldnt be so draconian it would be hated be everyone even me.

YOU (nullsec) must take matters into your own hands and fight or continue to blame one mechanic after another as your excuse for not fighting and you seem set that the blame game is better servng your current interests ,which it probably is, to the detriment of EVE and even yourselves in the long run.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#473 - 2015-08-07 03:02:57 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

What is stopping you exactly from getting in your ships and blasting the bejesus out of your neighbor, nothing before nothing now, except you dont want to.

If you (nullsec) expect that any system is going to make you fight when you are dead set against doing so there is no such system that wouldnt be so draconian it would be hated be everyone even me.

YOU (nullsec) must take matters into your own hands and fight or continue to blame one mechanic after another as your excuse for not fighting and you seem set that the blame game is better surving your current interests which it probably is to the detriment of EVE and even yourselves in the long run.

I cannot speak for the entirety of nullsec.
I can however, state that since Fozziesov became a thing, I can't be ****** to go on anything smaller than a capital fleet (which don't happen often since Phoebe) because now, subcaps generally mean babysitting Jesus lasers after interceptors run away.
So, for at least one F1 monkey, the current system has destroyed any and all desire to participate in sov "warfare". I'd honestly prefer never ending POS shooting to the current sov mechanics. I am not exaggerating in the slightest.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#474 - 2015-08-07 03:08:26 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

1. No, entrenched nullsec has isk to burn and new up and coming corps wont. No ISK fights.


This kind of thinking is exactly why sov has become a trolling contest.

Because according to you, the attacker should have to commit and risk functionally nothing.


Quote:

2. Prevent is the key not respond later, this is a central goal of fozziesov and the chief failing of the current holders of sov in their defensive posture.


So then you are saying that people should be forced to babysit their structures instead of actually playing the game or using their space.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#475 - 2015-08-07 03:12:29 UTC
How to fix current iterations of fozzie sov:

Make a player structure that acts like a sentry gun that can only be deployed near entosisable structures that shoots anyone entosising the said structure that is not part of the alliance owning said structure being entosised.

Viola now your trollcepter problems are solved and people have to actually commit something instead spamming inties solo. Heck it might even make the current sov trollers "group up" to actually troll.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

mydingaling
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#476 - 2015-08-07 03:16:53 UTC
No epic game starts an invasion with entosising something. Epic invasions begin with **** blowing up.

The most brutal mmo in the world, eve online.

The endgame of this brutal space mmo has invincible stations, uncatchable ships and magic space capture wand devices.














Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#477 - 2015-08-07 03:25:15 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
How to fix current iterations of fozzie sov:

Make a player structure that acts like a sentry gun that can only be deployed near entosisable structures that shoots anyone entosising the said structure that is not part of the alliance owning said structure being entosised.

Viola now your trollcepter problems are solved and people have to actually commit something instead spamming inties solo. Heck it might even make the current sov trollers "group up" to actually troll.


I still maintain that the entosis link does not belong on anything smaller than a battlecruiser without making serious fitting sacrifices. Cruiser should be able to, but just barely.

Battlecruisers themselves should have their command link bonus applied to handling it, making them able to fit freely while having one.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#478 - 2015-08-07 03:44:00 UTC
mydingaling wrote:
The endgame of this brutal space mmo has invincible stations, uncatchable ships and magic space capture wand devices.

You know why? Because Goonswarm objected to the idea of destructible stations.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#479 - 2015-08-07 03:50:10 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
mydingaling wrote:
The endgame of this brutal space mmo has invincible stations, uncatchable ships and magic space capture wand devices.

You know why? Because Goonswarm objected to the idea of destructible stations.


Why so you can destroy what groups of people worked for for years and have it go poof. Making stations destructible sets the precedent that even NPC owned stations should be destroyed.

Because if no one can have their player owned station why should you be immune in your NPC owned station.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#480 - 2015-08-07 03:52:28 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Why so you can destroy what groups of people worked for for years and have it go poof.

By this logic why should we be able to destroy Titans or supercarriers?

Yang Aurilen wrote:
Making stations destructible sets the precedent that even NPC owned stations should be destroyed.

Because if no one can have their player owned station why should you be immune in your NPC owned station.

Because the Empires have access to superior shielding technology and dedicated naval forces to stop you from doing stuff like that. By intentionally eschewing the Empires for personal freedom, you abandon that privilege. That pretty much fits the entire ethos of nullsec.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.