Player Features and Ideas Discussion

the ishtar has been able to fit 5 sentrys since forever, and there was no issue with it; the real problems started when you gave it the optimal+tracking bonuses; so why not just remove those bonuses instead of nerfing right left and centre and hope you got it right this time? this is what, third or fourth nef regarding ishtar?

These changes look great!

I really don't want to be negative, as I appreciate you're at least not ignoring it (even more than a year after starting to tap at it) but, quite probably nothing. Because as a battleship it's not usefully competitive with ishtars which do the same dps from range, moving twice the speed and without even having to commit. It's way less mobile, slow and a pain in the ass compared to any cruiser fleet that will still still run rings around it.

That is the general undesirability of BS. For long range travel (where 'long range' is 10 jumps now), can't superhighway them through Thera in workable numbers and don't hit any HACs at all for enough of a damn to make it worth the trouble.

Can you really not see it? Ishtars as a free-mobile flexible doctrine need to die. They are a constraint on general fleet diversity and a cancer on the game. You can't fit anything smaller to chance any kind of asymmetric fight (frankly, you're also likely to be slower while trying) for a result other than to die, so to stand a chance the easiest answer is just use the same. That's boring. That's been the case for a very long time now. This is why plenty of us hate it so much.

How many of us use ishtars with anything but sentries as its primary weapon system? Yeah none of us, right. I'm on board with the ishtar/vexor et al being a different way (with different vulnerabilities) to compose and fight a fleet but that it can deploy these sentries effectively and then run off distorts the hull beyond sense.

Try breaking them. even for a weekend. See if anyone uses the hull at all.

The current changes are nice but they essentially don't change the true problem of the Ishtar, Sentry Drones.
If you truly want to change the meta, you'll be much better off by actually removing all sentry bonuses to the ship's hull, and invest those bonuses into more heavy drones benefits.

Now I may be completely off the bat here, but what would happen if the bonuses would change to:

Gallente Cruiser Bonus per Level:
- 12.5% bonus to light / medium / heavy drone damage (+2.5% to offset Sentry Bonus)
- 7.5% bonus to velocity and tracking

Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses per skill-level
- 2500m bonus to drone operation range (-2500 to lower engage range and make them more risky)
- 12.5% bonus to light / medium / heavy drone health (+2.5% to offset Sentry Bonus)

Role Bonus:
Drones take 15% less damage from Smartbombs

Just thinking about something that could be an idea? It would make sentries a lot weaker and force them, in combination with the slot changes, to possibly be more close-range focused?

[quote]

Vexor and VNI aren't underused nor underweight for their class

I said UNDERUSED and UNDERPOWERED SHIPS

I didn't say anything about the vexor or VNI, I talked about the punisher and Rupture, PLEASE READ I'm not talking in morse code, nothing I mentioned referenced the VNI or Vexor

When I ECM an Ishtar, should it not lose control of its drones?

The beauty of this Ishtar thing is that you guys haven't learned a thing.

You introduced DDAs, DPS goes up because the base damage was already somewhat balanced but applying it is still difficult with drone mwd speed, tracking and the easy killing of mobile drones.
But then you introduced Omnis and suddenly sentries are doubling their range and tracking. Projection goes crazy.
Double down on the change by giving a bunch of ships optimal bonuses.

So you're still trying to figure out how to fix this mess while introducing tracking mods for missiles that are improving on ranges that are already balanced (if not op already on some bonused ships, barring HAM/Torps)

So the Ishtar will die, once you've figured out it's not the damage but the ability to kite and project damage so much better than anything else.

Then 150km Caracals, Cerbs and Ravens will be the flavour of the year you spend trying to figure out what went wrong, nerfing every mod and ship on the way down until you figure out those tracking mods were the cause.

Poor Amarr though, their drone ships are getting beat up and then their missile ships will get a kick in too. At least they've still got the zealot, right?

No when you kill his drones he should lose control of them, jamming him should do what it does now.

One of the benefits of using drones

To be fair the only one that's REALLY affected by these changes is the prophecy right? I might be missing something however

I tried that tactic in the last thread we had about drone nerfs. It didn't work then and it wont work now. You have to assume the person on the other end is willing to think logically.

But given their stupid stance on "flavor" aka the kinetic lock on caldari missile boats, don't expect anything reasonable from them here either.