Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Indeed - I still remember the initial HML proposed nerf of 25%, and the range hacked, and the application hammered! Although I think this one will do it for ishtars, they're counterable more realistically now.

I'm pretty okay with the most of the Ishtar changes. I think they are needed, but may be going a bit too far. I don't want to see the ship nerfed into uselessness for 3 years like some ships have in the past.

• The changes to speed, mass, and agility go after the main issue of speed shield fits. The problem of just dropping drones and kiting away, being much faster than most other HACs - this will help address it. It will be a lot harder to fit as much tank as you currently can due to the PG reduction - fitting on the Ishtar was much too easy before, and you will need to make harder choices or use fitting mods to compensate.


• Reducing the Drone Operation Range bonus on the Ishtar to 4000m/Level would have been another way of reducing the kiting ability without reducing choice for the Ishtar. This would still allow kiting away from Sentry Drones, but you'd have to make fitting decisions for more Drone Link Augmentors; or kite closer to your drones to stay in control range.


• If this was all that was done, I think it would have been a significant change. The 1 mid slot, +1 low slot I think may be going too far, as it makes the Ishtar too much like the VNI in terms of slot layout, and makes it too difficult to use a Shield setup. That was one main advantages of the Ishtar over the VNI, in addition to the HAC MWD bloom reduction, and better resist profile.

I still think that to balance Sentry drones on Cruiser hulls, we need a Medium Sentry Drone weapon that has shorter range and less damage, but better tracking. Large Sentry Drones could be kept for Battlecruiser/Battleship hulls, and you could have Medium Sentry Drones on Destroyers and Cruisers. Introducing something like this would take a lot of work however, so I doubt it'll happen.

The DDA nerf isn't too oppressive to the current drone ships, so I think it's a balanced change. When capital ships get rebalanced, please look at how this affects their damage capability because the small percentage decrease affects them significantly more.

IMO the ishtar should become a medium drone boat.

Simular to the gila but instead of shields its focus is armor and 5 drones instead of two and only focused on drones for damage.

new ishtar:

Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):

10% bonus to medium and small drone speed per level

10% bonus to medium and small drone hp and damage per level


Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level):
20% bonus to medium drone damage and hit points per level

10% bonus to medium drone tracking per level

Role Bonus:
50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty

4 high
4 mid
6 low

150 m3 drone bay 50mb activation.

what this should do is make those 5 medium drones worth 12.5... which is 0.5 more then the gila but has much better drone damage application...

AFAIK tech II is supposed to be specialized but the way how ccp designed the ishtar now is its a jack of all trades... just refocus the ship into the armor medium drone beast it should be.

^ That would actually be a pretty good idea, it probably wouldn't completely fix the problem but it would make drones a lot easier to balance.

This is not true.

Right now, Ishtar's are among the best sniping cruisers for the applied damage done. With the proposed AEGIS changes they will do the following using 3x DDA IIs, 2 OTE II, 2 DLA II:

Curator: ~480 DPS @ 78km/17km
Bouncer: ~450 DPS @ 67km/76km
Warden: ~435 DPS @ 112km/59km

Definitely a top sniping cruiser. With new missile mods the Cerberus will be equally high on the list with a 20% DPS loss for choosing selection type so for EM over Kinetic you get 400 DPS instead of 500 DPS which is good DPS and pretty big range increase over the curator .

An Eagle using 250mm railsguns with 3 Mag Stab II and 2 TC II with Optimal script does:

CN Plutonium: ~390 @ 66km/25km
CN Uranium: ~374 DPS @ 79km/25km
CN Lead: ~299 DPS @ 105/25k
Spike: ~260 DPS @ 190km/25km

The Sacrilege does not have the range of Cerberus but with the new modules it should be able to snipe just fine.
Using 3x BCS II + 1x missile velocity rig and 1x flight time rig (new missile modules will open greater range and application options).

(Any damage type)
HAM CN: 494 @ 44km
HM Fury: 417 DPS @ 102km
HM CN: 355 DPS @ 136k

A Zealot with Heavy Beam Laser II 3x HS II, 1x TC II optimal script, 1x TE

Ultraviolet: 470 DPS @ 49km/15km
Standard: 417 DPS @ 56km/15km
Aurora: 363 DPS @ 101km/15km

And let's throw in an Arty HAC too for good measure. Vagabond using 650mm II, 3x Gyro II, 1x TC II optimal script, 1x TE II.

RF EMP: 403DPS @ 15km/50k
RF Nuclear: 168 DPS @ 48km/50km
Tremor: 234 DPS @ 54km/50km

Muninn with same setup:

RF EMP: 403DPS @ 23k/33km
RF Nuclear: 168 DPS @ 72km/33km
Tremor: 234 DPS @ 82km/33km

**CONCLUSION**:

Missiles are coming back as an option for ranged platforms. Ishtars are still exceptional but in a much better place. And Arty HACs are not good snipers for DPS.

For me, one opportunity to make other HACs more desirable would be to boost the DPS of Tremor, Spike, and Aurora ammo. The numbers from the examples provided are not the only important number to consider for balance as other factors play into damage application and the survivability of the ship. But I think there is an opportunity to slightly boost the DPS on ranged weapon systems to make them more competitive options.

Sentries are going to fall hard into +-600dps now, and EVERY faction has a ratting ship which is at least 50% above that in dps (I mean 900-ish for average ratting ships and 1300-ish for blingy ones - which are 100% better than best Dominix you can fit with those changes).
Ammo is not a problem, it doesn't cost half as much as people tend to think it is. And it is definitely worth the gap turret and missile ships have over drone ships now (at least 50%, remember).

Dominixes were already used as secondary fire with assisted drones, where they got down from primary role in the drone nerfbatting process of late. Now even secondary is better off with a long range turret or missile ship - at least 15% advantage even despite all the application issues.

Which means one thing - all those drone ships, drone rigs, half the gallente skills and all the drone SP have been rendered completely and utterly useless for PvE. Thanks a lot Rise, nice way to screw 5 months of sub off me.

Phoon joining the very select group of useful battleships doesn't make the Gila any less broken in relation to other cruisers.

Good. A battleship designed for an anti-cruiser role should eat cruisers for breakfast, the same way a rapid light caracal eats frigates for breakfast.

Remove drone assist
Remove the ability of sub-bs to fit drone range highs

You've fixed them. Now they sit at 52km which is in range of a much much larger variety of weapons.

Oh yeah - drones lose lock when the host ship does. That should make ecm, damps and kiting effective too. Sentries are supposed to be a static dps platform so make changes to facilitate them being more static.

My vexor isn't going to do 903 dps with a decent tank. It was a good run but I can't argue it was balanced.