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[Aegis] More balance! - Ishtars, DDAs and the Tempest

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Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#181 - 2015-06-22 17:55:28 UTC
Aplysia Vejun wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Aplysia Vejun wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
But when a cruiser opens up and vaporizes a BS in 20 seconds under conditions that supposedly favor the BS while taking negligible damage itself, that's OP.

Can i have this cruiser?

Heavy Drone Isthar and Gila if fitted and flown right (I've seen both good and bad Gilas already).

so... those Ishtars and Gilas had 5'000 dps? (assuming a nearly untanked 100k hp BS)


100k EHP is not untanked.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#182 - 2015-06-22 17:58:18 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
Jackie Fisher wrote:
Problem: Ishtar
Solution: Nerf everything!

Just as well you guys didn't chose medicine as a career:
Patient: I've got an ingrowing toenail
Dr CCP : No problem, we'll just amputate both legs, hmm, better take the arms as well just to be safe. Not sure you really need two eyes either


The vast majority of drone ships in the game are very strong, and will continue to be after these changes.


pretty much ..

My Gila does around 900 dps out to 60km
(100 missile dps to 30km)

4x rlml
3x LSE
2x Hardener
1x 10mn AB
3x DDA
1x Shield Relay
3x Shield Extenders

My Tengu does somewhere between 550 & 650 dps out to 70km
(at work so no game/fitting tool access)

6x HML
1x Medium Shield Recharger
1x Shield Booster
2x Hardener
1x 10mn AB
1x Target Painter
4x BCU
3x CCC

Its been that long since I flew a Cerberus that I cant remember how much damage it did,
but fairly sure it was in the 400-450 dps range

I can currently fit an Ishtar for shield or armour tank, and get double the DPS that the Cerberus does

So the -mid, +Low to the Ishtar is definitely a move in the right direction

You have not fit an Ishtar in a long time then. A fairly standard fit with Bouncers is about 450-500DPs and 500-540DPs with Curators.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#183 - 2015-06-22 17:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
or lets make the ishtar a medium drone ship:

Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):

10% bonus to medium drone tracking per level

10% bonus to Light, Medium, hit points per level

Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level):
20% bonus to medium drone damage per level

10% bonus to medium drone speed per level
Role Bonus:

50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty

4 high
5 mid
5 low

50 mb limit

150 drone bay

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#184 - 2015-06-22 17:59:16 UTC
Aplysia Vejun wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Aplysia Vejun wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
But when a cruiser opens up and vaporizes a BS in 20 seconds under conditions that supposedly favor the BS while taking negligible damage itself, that's OP.

Can i have this cruiser?

Heavy Drone Isthar and Gila if fitted and flown right (I've seen both good and bad Gilas already).

so... those Ishtars and Gilas had 5'000 dps? (assuming a nearly untanked 100k hp BS)

No Solo Roam BS has that much HP unless you bling it. Fleet fits are something else, but that's not what Soldarius was referring to, I would assume.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#185 - 2015-06-22 18:02:11 UTC
Glorious.

Not enough +1`s around for all this.

Any word on stripping drones off most ships that don't use them? or balancing the amount of drones each racial ship gets? I'm referring to the Thorax getting 5 mediums while the Omen gets 4 and the Maller gets 3. Why is this?

Could we get most of them stripped off, and then wait to see how it balances out? or give all racial Attack ships 5 for frigs, 10 for combat frigs, none for destroyers, 25 for attack cruisers, 50 for combat cruisers, 25 for ALL BC's Attack, Combat. With Battleships all getting 50 for attack and 125 for combat battleships.

Obviously specific ships like Tristan/Vexors/Arbitrator/Dominix etc would keep their dedicated numbers, I just want consistency among the other hulls that are supposed to have primary weapon systems not based on their drones.

It just seems odd that equivalent ships that are not drone/not-drone focused have such disparity between them across races.

That would be my suggestion if you don't want to strip them down to just Drone specific hulls...
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#186 - 2015-06-22 18:04:38 UTC
re: tempest

can u give the cyclone similar treatment or an extra launcher slot

right now its got a worse bonus than the drake (5% rof vs 10% kin dmg) as well as one less launcher

seems unfair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
ugly inside
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#187 - 2015-06-22 18:06:14 UTC
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:
Glorious.

Any word on stripping drones off most ships that don't use them? or balancing the amount of drones each racial ship gets? I'm referring to the Thorax getting 5 mediums while the Omen gets 4 and the Maller gets 3. Why is this?



shoes come in many sizes.. you gotta fit things inside the shoe.. some things you just cant fit as much as you want inside your shoe.. dont get a small shoe..
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#188 - 2015-06-22 18:06:38 UTC
Terra Chrall wrote:

You have not fit an Ishtar in a long time then. A fairly standard fit with Bouncers is about 450-500DPs and 500-540DPs with Curators.


I've got an armour tanked one sitting around somewhere
while it's true i don't use it very often

I do remember it's overall dps output being not too dissimilar to my Gila's

Though that could just be due to the Gardes .....
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#189 - 2015-06-22 18:07:06 UTC
NinjaTurtle wrote:
just gunna take stabs at the ishtar till you figure it out huh lol
even a blind squirrel finds a nut from time to time


The question is, it it can hide it without letting them all fall down a big mountain ;)
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#190 - 2015-06-22 18:09:05 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
ccp rise is bad at whacking... tried to whack the Ishtar ended up whacking all drones ships
But then
wrote:
leaving the Ishtar untouched...

This doesn't seem possible.


ishtar is dominate due to its sentries and range...

they pretty much left that untouched.

refocus the ishtar to a heavy drone ship... if you want to pigion hole it to armor... give it an armor repping bonus instead of drone activation range.

It doesn't need to be a heavy drone focused ship, we already have the EOS for that.
The Ishtar should be as it would seem to be given the progression of its race, an armor tanked T2 drone cruiser. It now has the low slots for armor tank, the sentry damage or projection bonus could leave.
Removing the control range would be a benefit, no more free DLA that could be replaced with a tank bonus but traditionally there is only one HAC that gets a tank bonus and the Deimos got that.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#191 - 2015-06-22 18:10:37 UTC
It would be hilarious if everyone swore an oath to use nothing but Ishtars for awhile, make them more popular than ever and stick to it no matter what.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2015-06-22 18:10:57 UTC
after some EFT-warrioring: you killed it pretty hard. You will now need pg rigs to fit a decent armor buffer setup if you're putting anything but DLAs in the highs. The lack of neuts/guns in the highs means you'll tank/dps like a zealot but wont have the instant application and are susceptible to firewalling. Before you could at least say you had utility neuts + full tank going for you.

Dual rep is pretty much kill due to this as well, and this doesn't even go into making an already slow ship even slower, which pretty much removes the ship from the smaller settings.

The irony of these changes: the least affected fit is the shield sentry ishtar

Good job, CCP.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2015-06-22 18:18:54 UTC
if you want to nerf the shield ishtar and transition it to an armor ship, lower the cpu and keep/increase the pg. Shield ishtars are hard on cpu while armor ishtars have buckets of it, and the reverse holds.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#194 - 2015-06-22 18:20:51 UTC
twit brent wrote:
Are supers going to get a damage increase to compensate?
Sick of getting repeated nerfs on a ship i never log in.


You arent using it anyway. Why compensate it?
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#195 - 2015-06-22 18:21:50 UTC
Roy Henry wrote:
Why not just remove sentry bonuses from the hull instead of nerfing sentries, drones, and ishtars themselves? How much collateral damage has been caused to all other drone and sentry ships trying to fix this issue when simply removing the overpowered bonuses from the ship would have removed the sentry Ishtar in the first place?


What collateral damage? The hulls that got most kills are drone boats. It's drone problem, not just an ishtar problem. The ishtar is just the most flaming example of the drone problem.
May Ke
Chemically Inconvenienced
#196 - 2015-06-22 18:22:40 UTC
As most people are saying: Sentry drones need to be removed from Ishtars. Fin.

Who? Me?
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#197 - 2015-06-22 18:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Chrall
Kitty Bear wrote:
Terra Chrall wrote:

You have not fit an Ishtar in a long time then. A fairly standard fit with Bouncers is about 450-500DPs and 500-540DPs with Curators.


I've got an armour tanked one sitting around somewhere
while it's true i don't use it very often

I do remember it's overall dps output being not too dissimilar to my Gila's

Though that could just be due to the Gardes .....

Gardes do about 550-575 but with 28km optimal. So are not used much in PvP unless you know your targets are going to be sitting ducks. Keep in mind that Ishtar's lost 25% damage bonus (50% down to 25%) to sentries a few patches ago.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#198 - 2015-06-22 18:25:36 UTC
wtf I'm not gonna farm up 500m isk/hr with a 950 DPS Tempest! Un-nerf my DDAs this instant!

Oh god.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#199 - 2015-06-22 18:31:13 UTC
While any nerf to ishtars is a good thing, the problem with the ishtar stems from sentries giving a cruiser hull (with t2 resists no less) the damage projection of a battleship through sentries.

A point that has, incidentally, been raised in every ishtar related balance thread over the last year, many times over.
Michael Pawlicki
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#200 - 2015-06-22 18:31:36 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

We are changing the Tempest's bonus to rate of fire from 5% to 7.5% per level.

!


All of my yes. The Tempest is a bit of an ugly duckling for the Minnie BS arsenal. This should bring its DPS up enough to compete with the Phoon and provide an armor alternative to the Mael. Absolutely pleased with these changes.