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Countering Risk Aversion

First post
Author
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#321 - 2015-05-05 14:27:20 UTC
I think the answer is amazingly simple; Let people play in the sandbox how they want. Google Risk Vs Reward and come up with dozens of threads with thousands of replies. Google risk aversion and come up with the same thing. Realize that unless the reward is from ganking, the 'reward' from PvP is perceived most of the time.

Trying to change people playing a video game is ridiculous.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#322 - 2015-05-05 14:28:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
Vicky Somers wrote:
Eve is all about telling other players how to play the damn game!


Of course! Ever since I've subbed, I've had a slew of people tell me this and that and how I should play. Even this thread is someone telling me how I should play. Now I've started telling people too!
Solecist Project
#323 - 2015-05-05 14:32:33 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Vicky Somers wrote:
Eve is all about telling other players how to play the damn game!


Of course! Ever since I've subbed, I've had a slew of people tell me this and that and how I should play. Even this thread is someone telling me how I should play. Now I've started telling people too!

Is it "telling people how to play" ...
... when you tell them not to tell you how to play?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#324 - 2015-05-05 15:33:04 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Vicky Somers wrote:
Eve is all about telling other players how to play the damn game!


Of course! Ever since I've subbed, I've had a slew of people tell me this and that and how I should play. Even this thread is someone telling me how I should play. Now I've started telling people too!

Is it "telling people how to play" ...
... when you tell them not to tell you how to play?

Literally that would be 'telling them what to tell and what not to tell' (not sure if i constructed second part properly)

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#325 - 2015-05-05 16:01:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Basil Pupkin wrote:
SP wall thingy, skills train forever. Bla, bla, bla..


So what? EVE is game about progression with many things, and this progression with ingame items is of course planned by EVE skill mechanic, the best mechanic on the earth, when you have rapid progression with god damned lot of ships, weapons and modules, while the mastering of them all takes years. ALL SKILLS V is overrated. You can have fun earlier.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#326 - 2015-05-05 16:14:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
I'm so risk averse that I just warped away when a guy brought his Slicer AND A ROOK to fight my Executioner.

#riskaverse #mayonnaise #2015 #amarr #caldari
Lupe Meza
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#327 - 2015-05-05 19:18:04 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
I'm so risk averse that I just warped away when a guy brought his Slicer AND A ROOK to fight my Executioner.

#riskaverse #mayonnaise #2015 #amarr #caldari


Don't you know this is a sandboxpvpdon'trunwhenI'mtryingtokillyou game? Stop being poor and drop an archon to rep your executioner.

Am I doing this right?
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
Something Really Pretentious
#328 - 2015-05-05 19:34:40 UTC
Deuce McGuilicuddy wrote:
I'm pretty sure no matter how much evidence and logic you throw at Basil, you will always get the same response from him. Pretty much everyone in the thread has argued with him and refuted every point he made, and he hasn't even lost his stride. He's made himself look so ignorant I almost feel bad for him. Then I remember he plays this same game in every thread that he posts in. I don't even think he's a troll. I truly believe that he is, in fact, that dense.


And so...for him..it goes to this point..

"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - Augustine of Hippo

Hehehe.. Lol

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..

Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#329 - 2015-05-05 20:01:31 UTC
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - Augustine of Hippo

Hehehe.. Lol

That's a great quote. Augustine of Hippo wins GD!
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#330 - 2015-05-09 04:24:40 UTC
Deuce McGuilicuddy wrote:
I'm pretty sure no matter how much evidence and logic you throw at Basil, you will always get the same response from him. Pretty much everyone in the thread has argued with him and refuted every point he made, and he hasn't even lost his stride. He's made himself look so ignorant I almost feel bad for him. Then I remember he plays this same game in every thread that he posts in. I don't even think he's a troll. I truly believe that he is, in fact, that dense.

Except all the evidence supported my point and all the logic did well to back it up.

As long as you keep throwing evidence which supports my (kinda obvious) point, what do you expect?

I am "ignorant" at the maximum to every "because I said so" and "lalala I can't hear you" class arguments, and aside from that, none has been brought against my claim to even dent it. The whole stupidity went cycles around the "old miner vs new ganker" so-called argument (as if old miners EVER get caught), which is the corner case of corner cases to begin with (there is just not enough SP in mining to get close to SP wall height in the first place). This type of argument deserve a lot more ignorance than an intelligent person like me could ever show, I'm sorry for lacking it.

Then they call me wrong because I contradict something they want to believe.

Well, not like I know it's cozy in the pink glasses thinking that your game is so easy not because you have all that SP over the wall but because you're oh-so-skilled F1 monkeys. I know that between truth and feeling, the emotional types would choose a good feeling, that's practically what being stupid is - but every time I try to seek a limit of stupidity, there seems to be none - people would still pledge what they like rather than what is real.

Once again, I repeat my claim, so you can try again and bring actual arguments instead of bla-bla you brought on me all these pages:

The rule: SP is the biggest force multiplier, which makes all other force multipliers irrelevant, unless mitigated first. Or, in oversimplified form for birdbrain ad hominem addicts in this thread: more sp always reliably wins.
The exceptions:
1) Being 5th wheel in a fleet which is over SP wall. In this situation, even something outside of human species could feel "useful" even going harlem shake in process of fleet doing the fighting. The reality is that the fleet doesn't need that 5th wheel but decided to help it pass SP wall anyway, which is why it is an exception - even though a dog can probably achieve the same level of usefulness in this situation.
2) Bringing SP cloud to "out-SP" the enemy. Hardly efficient, because you're going to lose a lot more than you win with it, but still, allows SP wall leaping, and thus qualifies as the exception.
3) Enemy's self-destruction by not using his SP at sufficient capacity. In this case, once again, even a dog could manage, because it's enemy's self-destruction and everyone on the killmail just happened to be there when it happened.

The basis of this claim is also simple - it is hard undeniable numbers that character with less SP is very severely less efficient. It is not so obvious for people who can't do more than feeling, but this means that every move you make can be trivially countered by having more SP, as long as there is a field of deficiency, exploiting it is incredibly simple. That, in turn, means, that every other force multiplier will have a very hard time (if possible at all) to influence a fight fought over SP deficiency field, which brings us to the initial claim - SP will make all other force multipliers irrelevant. There are no flaws, and exceptions are well marked.

To date I have not received even a single sample of (at least theoretical) input that contradicts the rule and not lies within exceptions. In fact, the theory is so solid people would rather try to dent me instead of it, which just shows how desperate they are at protecting their false beliefs and their comfort zone of being oh-so-imaginary-skilled leet peeveepeers.

Keep the "Basil is wrong" tears coming, your crying is welcome addition to my tear bucket.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

Amy Undergood
Mexican Avacado Syndicate
#331 - 2015-05-09 04:37:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Amy Undergood
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Lot's of passionate stuff....surely with lots of undeniable evidence


What joys are you gifting me today Basil?

Let's see:

Paragraph 1: Nope. No evidence to support your claim there.

Paragraph 2: Nope, None there either

Paragraph 3: Nope, no evidence but an admission of ignorance. Good progress.

Paragraph 4: Nope. You are called wrong because you provide no evidence, just statements. Good example of that.

Paragraph 5: Nope, but I definitely urge you to seek a limit to stupidity. At the moment, it seems quite rampant. No evidence though

Paragraph 6: Nope, no evidence. That would be much better than stating you will repeat your claim

Paragraph 7 and associated points 1-3: Nope. I had high hopes for this bit, but again nothing more than just empty claims. One day maybe, there'll be something included to verify what you claim

Paragraph 8: Unfortunately no again. It starts so well with a claim hard undeniable truth, yet lacking in any evidence to support that claim. If it is so undeniable, where is the evidence to support it?

Paragraph 9: Nope yet again. No evidence to support anything you claim.

Paragraph 10 (final paragraph): I can only also cry (with laughter) at how well your empty claims add weight (by exclusion) to the opposite view.

CCP, please listen to the argument that Basil makes by not giving us any evidence of his claims. We need more benefit to being a veteran. It is too easy for new players to beat them in pvp.

I will support that last sentence with evidence. Exhibit A:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

20 day old character solo pvping in null. How dare he. This is an injustice. Where's Ripard when I need him?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#332 - 2015-05-09 04:43:04 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

Once again, I repeat my claim...


Repeating a claim ad nauseam is not an argument. It is just boring and tiresome.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#333 - 2015-05-09 05:44:41 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

The rule: SP is the biggest force multiplier, which makes all other force multipliers irrelevant, unless mitigated first.


100% wrong.

The worst part is not that you believe this tripe, but that you try and infect new players with it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#334 - 2015-05-09 15:21:39 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

The rule: SP is the biggest force multiplier, which makes all other force multipliers irrelevant, unless mitigated first.


100% wrong.

The worst part is not that you believe this tripe, but that you try and infect new players with it.

No. He's right.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#335 - 2015-05-09 15:31:07 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

The rule: SP is the biggest force multiplier, which makes all other force multipliers irrelevant, unless mitigated first.


100% wrong.

The worst part is not that you believe this tripe, but that you try and infect new players with it.

No. He's right.


Nope. Numbers and preparation/game knowledge are the biggest force multipliers.

He even admits it, that skill points can be and are often overcome, he just dances around it to try and seem as though his claim is true.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#336 - 2015-05-09 17:31:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The only SP you need for pvp is the ability to pilot a frigate, strap on a mwd and fit a point of some kind. Everything else is an optional extra.

Does not work for me for some reason.... What?

Targets fit up to 4+ stabs + good tank. And faction NPC hurts! Shocked

I can only guess you are talking about some special kind of 'pvp' where using point on somebody automatically gets you the kill.....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#337 - 2015-05-09 17:50:23 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The only SP you need for pvp is the ability to pilot a frigate, strap on a mwd and fit a point of some kind. Everything else is an optional extra.

Does not work for me for some reason.... What?

Targets fit up to 4+ stabs + good tank. And faction NPC hurts! Shocked

I can only guess you are talking about some special kind of 'pvp' where using point on somebody automatically gets you the kill.....


The NPC hurts... I can only assume you're hunting stabbed plexers in Larges, in which case, an Alphanado.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#338 - 2015-05-09 18:06:19 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The only SP you need for pvp is the ability to pilot a frigate, strap on a mwd and fit a point of some kind. Everything else is an optional extra.

Does not work for me for some reason.... What?

Targets fit up to 4+ stabs + good tank. And faction NPC hurts! Shocked

I can only guess you are talking about some special kind of 'pvp' where using point on somebody automatically gets you the kill.....


The NPC hurts... I can only assume you're hunting stabbed plexers in Larges, in which case, an Alphanado.

Actually it's not the case. I'm hunting farmers where it hurts more: in Nourvukaiken. And i'm doing it solo.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#339 - 2015-05-09 18:16:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

The rule: SP is the biggest force multiplier, which makes all other force multipliers irrelevant, unless mitigated first.


100% wrong.

The worst part is not that you believe this tripe, but that you try and infect new players with it.

No. He's right.


Nope. Numbers and preparation/game knowledge are the biggest force multipliers.

He even admits it, that skill points can be and are often overcome, he just dances around it to try and seem as though his claim is true.

That's irrelevant !

He's right !
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#340 - 2015-05-09 18:54:51 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

The rule: SP is the biggest force multiplier, which makes all other force multipliers irrelevant, unless mitigated first.


100% wrong.

The worst part is not that you believe this tripe, but that you try and infect new players with it.

No. He's right.


Nope. Numbers and preparation/game knowledge are the biggest force multipliers.

He even admits it, that skill points can be and are often overcome, he just dances around it to try and seem as though his claim is true.

That's irrelevant !

He's right !


My God...Basil reproduced!

Non-arguments repeated over and over.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online