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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1961 - 2015-07-12 18:04:55 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Roll
the wannabee toughies woke up...

Pvp alone will not create more new players.
And its not only about player retention, it is about to get lots more of players.

Insisting that EvE stays a PvP heaven, when it is already not a PvP heaven is ridiculous.
Next the sandbox myth will be pulled and another short cycle will be started.

WoW has still real big numbers, combines PvE and PvP and starts to adopt the PLEX idea.
Anyone remember, the Warcraft is a copy of dune and command an conquer?
Blizzard started with a copy.
Nothing wrong with a good copy. Is there something to copy from WoW?


EvE cannot have a dark atmosphere if some players can not be total di?cks anymore?
What do you try to tell?

Would it be a problem, if some of those d's leave if much more new players come to play?

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Black Pedro
Mine.
#1962 - 2015-07-12 18:07:26 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

...because the business model of a subscription based videogame is about retaining the 20% of customers who accidentally "play it right" and kiss good-bye the money of the 80% of fools who "play it wrong"... Roll


No, because the business model of the game should play to it's strengths, and not something that has been conclusively proven to be the worst possible path for player retention.

You're asking Mortal Kombat to have more jumping puzzles.


So this game whose success and player retention are based on player generated content should not allow 80% of the players to generate content.


Those players refuse to generate content based on having deliberately excluded themselves from everything but a tiny niche of the game.

Choices have consequences. If you really do want to interact, then pull your head out of the sand and play the game for once, stop asking for invincible, all powerful NPCs to do your job for you.

In short, try being a real player. It works wonders.


80% of your new customers make a uninformed choice that inevitably will drive them away form your business (they didnt' grow a goatee before trying to buy your used cars! Too late!).

What do you suggest?

You could put your big boy pants on and shoot another player?

1-day old players are flooding into new player corps like Brave, Pandemic Horde and Karma Fleet and thriving. I think a 6-year old player like yourself could figure it out in short order.

That or find another game. This game is 12-years in and isn't likely to do an about-face. Don't let the sunk cost fallacy keep you here if you have realized this isn't the game for you or not the game you thought it was.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1963 - 2015-07-12 18:08:17 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
I really started to think about PLEX system, and think it is ingenious!

It ensures EvE´s survival, as there is always that hardcore playerbase that keeps on buying PLEX´s, to be sold on markets for isk, to skill mulltiple chars, buy boots nobody sees...

I bet even ED and SC will someday adopt this kind of payment model when income starts to decrease, eventhough neither games are subscription based (maybe just to buy ingame currency or stuff/content).

CCP is brilliant! Big smile

Death of EvE is false prophets new doomsday thing after 2012 passed.
Blizzard have already introduced a PLEX equivalent to Wow that can be traded for ingame currency or used for game time. The major difference is that it can only be traded once.


I knew it!

Other companies are also after money (atleast eventually when main income decreses even a bit), CCP were very smart by doing EvE as a subscription game where players can buy all sort of stuff just buy purchasing PLEX´s. This way EvE can survive as long as it has that loyal core fans buying PLEX`s.

Though, if day comes that they stop doing that, PLEX price will just explode and thousand subscribing only with PLEX (isk) most propably will drop out.


Once the core of players leave, CCP will be forced to go into the free to play model, and thus its profits will come from offering paid content in the form of exclusive ship blueprints, character skins, planetary walking expansions, access to "paid" for anomalies, and wormholes, special premium mission factions etc.

Eve being a game which can exist indefinitely for a low maintenance fee, and a bare bones dev team. Furthermore, offering a free to play experience will most likely increase revenue from the sales of paid items, due to the influx of players who can casually play eve, and periodically require isk for skill training.


I don´t see that as a possibility, free to play would decrease CCP´s revenue even more than losing subscribers, and well I don´t see it even be so close to a situation where hardcore fans of EvE will leave (remember, ED and SC as other space ship options require better hardware and connections that say, many Russians don´t have).
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1964 - 2015-07-12 18:08:50 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Malcanis, I blame you for this.
It is like being at a party with a very quiet, guy who just blends into the furniture ... but you have to go and engage them. Now we all have to listen to his obsession about semi-precious stones and where he found them.



Even now I realise my mistake :(

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1965 - 2015-07-12 18:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Black Pedro wrote:

You could put your big boy pants on and shoot another player?


shooting other plays do not make you big or tough.
nice delusion some people have.
Big smile

A logi pilot not shooting...
...not someone with big boy pants?

Some logic is really "kaputt"

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Black Pedro
Mine.
#1966 - 2015-07-12 18:11:30 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
shooting other plays do not make you big or tough.
nice delusion some people have.
Big smile

No, it makes you someone who is actually playing the game.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1967 - 2015-07-12 18:13:28 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

What do you suggest?


I suggest that the bad choice stop being the option pushed by the NPE. I suggest that conflict be incentivized, enabled and supported, instead of squelched.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1968 - 2015-07-12 18:13:45 UTC
You still try to tell how this game played right, when you have been proven wrong countless times?

A logi does play the game wrong?

lel

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1969 - 2015-07-12 18:15:45 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
(...)
You could put your big boy pants on and shoot another player?

1-day old players are flooding into new player corps like Brave, Pandemic Horde and Karma Fleet and thriving. I think a 6-year old player like yourself could figure it out in short order.

That or find another game. This game is 12-years in and isn't likely to do an about-face. Don't let the sunk cost fallacy keep you here if you have realized this isn't the game for you or not the game you thought it was.


As I said elsewhere, I will quit EVE when it dies or I find a better game. Bear

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Black Pedro
Mine.
#1970 - 2015-07-12 18:22:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
La Rynx wrote:
You still try to tell how this game played right, when you have been proven wrong countless times?

A logi does play the game wrong?

lel

There are many ways to play Eve - maximum freedom and all that - but the "essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is full time PvP in a sandbox environment" (New Pilot FAQ). Playing it in someway different from how it was designed and then coming to the forums and complaining about it not being what you want it to be is... bizarre? Also slightly sad. If it isn't meeting your gaming needs grow some self-respect and move on instead of hanging on like some codependent boyfriend/girlfriend.

There are plenty of other fish in the (gaming) sea.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1971 - 2015-07-12 18:22:57 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
(...)
You could put your big boy pants on and shoot another player?

1-day old players are flooding into new player corps like Brave, Pandemic Horde and Karma Fleet and thriving. I think a 6-year old player like yourself could figure it out in short order.

That or find another game. This game is 12-years in and isn't likely to do an about-face. Don't let the sunk cost fallacy keep you here if you have realized this isn't the game for you or not the game you thought it was.


As I said elsewhere, I will quit EVE when it dies or I find a better game. Bear


Why not just start a new character and join the above-mentioned newbies?

Are you scared you might enjoy it and realise that you've been arguing against your own enjoyment for the last 6 years? Admittedly, that would be a trifle embarrassing, but what the hell - no one has to know if you don't tell them.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1972 - 2015-07-12 18:24:43 UTC
La Rynx wrote:

Pvp alone will not create more new players.


Except that it does. You know, like when the game had such an enormous spike of newbies after BR5, most of whom quit because they got bored to death in highsec.

Oh, and when This Is Eve got put out, the footage of which didn't involve chewing on a whole lot of asteroids if I recall...

It's almost like people join this game because of the conflict that is the game's main selling point, but because new players start in highsec which has too many rules that squelch, punish and discourage conflict, they quit out of boredom and disappointment.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1973 - 2015-07-12 18:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
(...)
You could put your big boy pants on and shoot another player?

1-day old players are flooding into new player corps like Brave, Pandemic Horde and Karma Fleet and thriving. I think a 6-year old player like yourself could figure it out in short order.

That or find another game. This game is 12-years in and isn't likely to do an about-face. Don't let the sunk cost fallacy keep you here if you have realized this isn't the game for you or not the game you thought it was.


As I said elsewhere, I will quit EVE when it dies or I find a better game. Bear


And i forgot to mention that some ppl even want other ppl to leave when they do not like their different playstyle.

Very grown up.

Of couse everyone is invited to play eve his own way.
Otherwise it would not be a sandbox.

Ever heard of "doublethink"?
Blink
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1974 - 2015-07-12 18:27:44 UTC
Let me point this out clearly. It would end the discussion, if the deranged participant would only realize.

Participant wrote:
The whole point is, a player willing to put the effort and planning needed
The whole point is exactly that. If a player was willing to put the effort and planning needed into watching out for himself so he doesn't get killed, then there would be no issue in the first place!

Useless discussion.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1975 - 2015-07-12 18:29:48 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
La Rynx wrote:

Pvp alone will not create more new players.


Except that it does. You know, like when the game had such an enormous spike of newbies after BR5, most of whom quit because they got bored to death in highsec.


More doublethink, if they would come prepared for pvp in nullsec, how could they get bored in hisec?
PvP as defined by some ppl here does NOT entice many players.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1976 - 2015-07-12 18:35:31 UTC
La Rynx wrote:

More doublethink


"Inconceivable!", is what this reminds me of.

It's not "doublethink" because you don't like the facts.


Quote:

PvP as defined by some ppl here does NOT entice many players.


But apparently PvP as defined by "Do a few L4s, then send an invincible, unstoppable NPC after anyone who has ever done any PvP" is just fine?

To hell with you. If you don't want PvP, flat out, you are playing the wrong game. Go play Star Trek, where they don't have any PvP. You don't belong here, and I'm not afraid to say it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1977 - 2015-07-12 18:39:51 UTC
Let me point this out clearly. It would end the discussion, if the deranged participants would only realize.

Participants wrote:
The whole point is, a player willing to put the effort and planning needed
The whole point is exactly that. If a player was willing to put the effort and planning needed into watching out for himself so he doesn't get killed, then there would be no issue in the first place!


They basically ended the discussion, without even realizing.

To their defense (Lol) they probably ended the discussion in the first few pages and I just missed it.


Aren't Ishtanchuck and her mental breed easily track- and gankable?

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1978 - 2015-07-12 18:41:40 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Let me point this out clearly. It would end the discussion, if the deranged participants would only realize.

Participants wrote:
The whole point is, a player willing to put the effort and planning needed
The whole point is exactly that. If a player was willing to put the effort and planning needed into watching out for himself so he doesn't get killed, then there would be no issue in the first place!


They basically ended the discussion, without even realizing.

To their defense (Lol) they probably ended the discussion in the first few pages and I just missed it.


Aren't Ishtanchuck and her mental breed easily track- and gankable?


Heck, you don't need to gank them. They pour out enough tears on the forums already just because ganking is allowed to exist at all.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1979 - 2015-07-12 18:43:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
La Rynx wrote:

More doublethink


"Inconceivable!", is what this reminds me of.

It's not "doublethink" because you don't like the facts.


Quote:

PvP as defined by some ppl here does NOT entice many players.


But apparently PvP as defined by "Do a few L4s, then send an invincible, unstoppable NPC after anyone who has ever done any PvP" is just fine?

To hell with you. If you don't want PvP, flat out, you are playing the wrong game. Go play Star Trek, where they don't have any PvP. You don't belong here, and I'm not afraid to say it.


OI that gets more funny by one post after another.
You and this Yammerschoner guy want other people to leave because you do not like their ideas?
When you obviously do not even clearly understand what ppl are discussing.#Twisted
Sure!

The eve-pvp-sandbox has already tons of PvE and PvE players and some guys try to ride the dead horse of PvP myths, when not even the bones of the horse are left.

Where is the problem with PvE when you can have your PvP?
Why should you have the right to kill harmless players?
Because?
EvE is dark place?
Or you are unable to get enough fun of all the PvP that already exists in EvE?

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1980 - 2015-07-12 18:45:49 UTC
One think you should remember:

If some wannabees try to tell other ppl to leave, then they admit, that they are out of arguments.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."