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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Marsha Mallow
#1781 - 2015-07-02 16:04:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsha Mallow
flakeys wrote:
Your accounts are linked to a certain rl name .So yes , i do assume CCP knows how many people are playing the game or at least can make a verry close estimation of it.

You get prompted to input your real name and address once you log into account management. You don't need to do this unless you are attempting to subscribe using RL funds (or attempting to transfer the character to another account). So anyone on an active trial (whether new player or old on a new account) is anonymous. If you sub your account indefinitely via Plex you are also never prompted for personal info, because you don't need to log into account management to apply a plex.

Rookie chat sits at 500-3000 active at any time which is a reasonable chunk. Add to that the long term plexed accounts. Then add people at shared IPs (such as University) or with a dynamic IP address which is reset by their ISP. Now throw in VPN users, or those who dial in from multiple IPs (work, home, laptop). I bet some people do use multiple email addresses for their accounts for security reasons. We were encouraged to link our accounts but it wasn't made mandatory.

An estimate based upon active users probably can be made but I suspect the margin for error is large enough to make it useless.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
flakeys
Doomheim
#1782 - 2015-07-02 16:35:53 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Marsha Mallow wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Your accounts are linked to a certain rl name .So yes , i do assume CCP knows how many people are playing the game or at least can make a verry close estimation of it.

You get prompted to input your real name and address once you log into account management. You don't need to do this unless you are attempting to subscribe using RL funds (or attempting to transfer the character to another account). So anyone on an active trial (whether new player or old on a new account) is anonymous. If you sub your account indefinitely via Plex you are also never prompted for personal info, because you don't need to log into account management to apply a plex.

Rookie chat sits at 500-3000 active at any time which is a reasonable chunk. Add to that the long term plexed accounts. Then add people at shared IPs (such as University) or with a dynamic IP address which is reset by their ISP. Now throw in VPN users, or those who dial in from multiple IPs (work, home, laptop). I bet some people do use multiple email addresses for their accounts for security reasons. We were encouraged to link our accounts but it wasn't made mandatory.

An estimate based upon active users probably can be made but I suspect the margin for error is large enough to make it useless.



If you create a trial account it asks you for an email adres.As said , how many people do you think use different email adresses for all their different accounts?

It's not just about paying the bills , it's also about being reachable on an email adress when your login **** goes bad as in forgetting passwords and having a hacked account.Sure some people might use different ones but i am assuming most people will use the same email adress for different accounts.So even if you don't use your rl name you will need to put in an email adress and using multiples , allthough possible, will only come back to haunt you one day.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1783 - 2015-07-02 17:24:20 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Your accounts are linked to a certain rl name .So yes , i do assume CCP knows how many people are playing the game or at least can make a verry close estimation of it.

You get prompted to input your real name and address once you log into account management. You don't need to do this unless you are attempting to subscribe using RL funds (or attempting to transfer the character to another account). So anyone on an active trial (whether new player or old on a new account) is anonymous. If you sub your account indefinitely via Plex you are also never prompted for personal info, because you don't need to log into account management to apply a plex.

Rookie chat sits at 500-3000 active at any time which is a reasonable chunk. Add to that the long term plexed accounts. Then add people at shared IPs (such as University) or with a dynamic IP address which is reset by their ISP. Now throw in VPN users, or those who dial in from multiple IPs (work, home, laptop). I bet some people do use multiple email addresses for their accounts for security reasons. We were encouraged to link our accounts but it wasn't made mandatory.

An estimate based upon active users probably can be made but I suspect the margin for error is large enough to make it useless.



Regardless of your perceived notion that James Bond style account creation is wide spread... we also have CCP financial reports to compare to the logged in numbers over time. And guess what, as Riptard and others have pointed out they are almost spot on for correlation.

But yes, if you fake a MAC, use fake hardware ID, use a VPN, create a bunch of fake emails and only ever pay in Plex, you can hide your status from CCP Roll

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Marsha Mallow
#1784 - 2015-07-02 17:38:07 UTC
flakeys wrote:
If you create a trial account it asks you for an email adres.As said , how many people do you think use different email adresses for all their different accounts?

It's not just about paying the bills , it's also about being reachable on an email adress when your login **** goes bad as in forgetting passwords and having a hacked account.Sure some people might use different ones but i am assuming most people will use the same email adress for different accounts.So even if you don't use your rl name you will need to put in an email adress and using multiples , allthough possible, will only come back to haunt you one day.

I'm not justifying people doing it, I agree it's a bit pointless. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've no idea whether it works as a security measure in case of hacking - depends how your account is hacked in the first place. But there are other reasons people may have unique emails across their accounts. Some think that if they buddy themselves it's naughty, as it should only be done for new players, so they use alternative emails to try sneak it through. As you say, if they have an issue later on with hacking (or forget their email/acc name/pw) multiple emails might make things worse. Some may have created accounts at different times and their primary email address has changed inbetween. It's not too difficult to set up your current email to import other emails in, and it's less hassle than going through to update your email on every service attached to it. Either way, it's not our concern, and players can do whatever they want with their own account management, whether sensibe or not.
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Regardless of your perceived notion that James Bond style account creation is wide spread... we also have CCP financial reports to compare to the logged in numbers over time. And guess what, as Riptard and others have pointed out they are almost spot on for correlation.

But yes, if you fake a MAC, use fake hardware ID, use a VPN, create a bunch of fake emails and only ever pay in Plex, you can hide your status from CCP Roll

There's nothing 'James Bond style' about it you silly ****. I trade characters and generally have 40-60 accounts subbed at any time. Obviously I know at what point you input your info into account management.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
flakeys
Doomheim
#1785 - 2015-07-02 17:52:08 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Marsha Mallow wrote:
flakeys wrote:
If you create a trial account it asks you for an email adres.As said , how many people do you think use different email adresses for all their different accounts?

It's not just about paying the bills , it's also about being reachable on an email adress when your login **** goes bad as in forgetting passwords and having a hacked account.Sure some people might use different ones but i am assuming most people will use the same email adress for different accounts.So even if you don't use your rl name you will need to put in an email adress and using multiples , allthough possible, will only come back to haunt you one day.

I'm not justifying people doing it, I agree it's a bit pointless. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've no idea whether it works as a security measure in case of hacking - depends how your account is hacked in the first place. But there are other reasons people may have unique emails across their accounts. Some think that if they buddy themselves it's naughty, as it should only be done for new players, so they use alternative emails to try sneak it through. As you say, if they have an issue later on with hacking (or forget their email/acc name/pw) multiple emails might make things worse. Some may have created accounts at different times and their primary email address has changed inbetween. It's not too difficult to set up your current email to import other emails in, and it's less hassle than going through to update your email on every service attached to it. Either way, it's not our concern, and players can do whatever they want with their own account management, whether sensibe or not.
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Regardless of your perceived notion that James Bond style account creation is wide spread... we also have CCP financial reports to compare to the logged in numbers over time. And guess what, as Riptard and others have pointed out they are almost spot on for correlation.

But yes, if you fake a MAC, use fake hardware ID, use a VPN, create a bunch of fake emails and only ever pay in Plex, you can hide your status from CCP Roll

There's nothing 'James Bond style' about it you silly ****. I trade characters and generally have 40-60 accounts subbed at any time. Obviously I know at what point you input your info into account management.



Yeah Marsha i agree on what you are saying about the reasons why people could do that and i am NOT doubting that people do this , what i am doubting is that a big amount of players do this.I am pretty confident a verry high percentage uses one email adress for their different accounts for the reasons given above.If that email adress is their main one or just a ''subadress'''doesn't matter in that regard offcourse.

So yes if CCP uses this info to get an update on how many people actually play i am sure the numbers will be off.They will however not be off in such a huge manner that they can not get an indication of the direction the number of actuall players is heading.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Gyromite
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
#1786 - 2015-07-03 04:49:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Gyromite
I like the idea behind FozzieSOV, I like the direction the devs are going, and I like giraffes.
das licht
Leremblompes Minerals
#1787 - 2015-07-03 09:01:08 UTC
OMG ... the dudes at CCP will lose their jobs s00n and i don't care much! P
Only 15000 online lol.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#1788 - 2015-07-03 09:29:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Doomsday proselytizing will only turn people off from playing.

Regardless of whether or not the game is "shrinking" in terms of numbers, talking about it is only going to affect those who are still here to see it.

Threads like these don't slow down number decreases, only speeds it up.

"Oh, looks like 90 pages of conversation have taken place about how EvE is dying. Better buy more subscription time!"
- no one ever
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1789 - 2015-07-03 10:29:35 UTC
Thank you Marsha, but please don't wte your time. It doesn't matter to them what CCP says, does or that obviously if it wasn't a big deal for CCP they wouldn't have ever mentioned it in the first place. No, that's irrlevant and we should just let them keep their belief, because they deserve it. Big smile

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#1790 - 2015-07-03 11:32:59 UTC
Numbers are getting low and usually seasonality can be to blame however in the 8 years I've been playing I don't recall them being this low.

How much of the decrease can be linked to the price of plex, jump changes, FozzieSov, multiboxing changes, the increased amount of a-holes that play the game, no "what next" after people achieving carrier, super carrier and titan skills and a game play that have become dull and predictable and sugar coated as game mechanics.

These elements,especially the Eve Community have been seriously disrupted and I can't see where it's going to bottom out at the moment.
Vishanka
White Ops
#1791 - 2015-07-03 11:51:45 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
especially the Eve Community have been seriously disrupted
Why do you think the community has become worse? I've mostly met friendly people, even if they attempted to kill me, but well, thats what the game is about, right?
das licht
Leremblompes Minerals
#1792 - 2015-07-03 12:49:55 UTC
Let the people in highsec live in peace again, the numbers will rise – doing something different will cost you the job. It's that simple!
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1793 - 2015-07-03 13:07:38 UTC
das licht wrote:
Let the people in highsec live in peace again, the numbers will rise – doing something different will cost you the job. It's that simple!

What is wrong with hisec? Concord on vacation?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
flakeys
Doomheim
#1794 - 2015-07-03 16:24:18 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Hilti Enaka wrote:


These elements,especially the Eve Community have been seriously disrupted and I can't see where it's going to bottom out at the moment.



Mmmm as someone who came here in 2004 i really doubt the community has gotten worse then it was IF you compare it with other games.By that i mean that if you compare the ''early online gamers'' , not just eve players , with todays crowd then you will find it has gotten ''worse'' in general.People are used to playing against each other online and mostly used to being anonymous online.

Keeping that in mind i don't see people in this community being any ''harsher'' then in most online communities i play in.

Go play a match of fifa15 FUT or WOT for example , in wich a loss means nothing more then a few wasted minutes instead of wasted days/weeks/months an eve loss will cost you ,and you will find people scream and curse at you for the smallest things these days.

Nah eve ain't that bad , it just get's painted as the place sadists and psycho's like to hang out .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#1795 - 2015-07-03 16:32:22 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:


These elements,especially the Eve Community have been seriously disrupted and I can't see where it's going to bottom out at the moment.



Mmmm as someone who came here in 2004 i really doubt the community has gotten worse then it was IF you compare it with other games.By that i mean that if you compare the ''early online gamers'' , not just eve players , with todays crowd then you will find it has gotten ''worse'' in general.People are used to playing against each other online and mostly used to being anonymous online.

Keeping that in mind i don't see people in this community being any ''harsher'' then in most online communities i play in.

Go play a match of fifa15 FUT or WOT for example , in wich a loss means nothing more then a few wasted minutes instead of wasted days/weeks/months an eve loss will cost you ,and you will find people scream and curse at you for the smallest things these days.

Nah eve ain't that bad , it just get's painted as the place sadists and psycho's like to hang out .


Amen.

i tend to think that people who consider the eve community worse than other game communities don't play many other online games. I used to play League of Legends and World of Tanks and those communities make this one look like a bunch of Halo shrouded Saints...
flakeys
Doomheim
#1796 - 2015-07-03 16:50:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:


These elements,especially the Eve Community have been seriously disrupted and I can't see where it's going to bottom out at the moment.



Mmmm as someone who came here in 2004 i really doubt the community has gotten worse then it was IF you compare it with other games.By that i mean that if you compare the ''early online gamers'' , not just eve players , with todays crowd then you will find it has gotten ''worse'' in general.People are used to playing against each other online and mostly used to being anonymous online.

Keeping that in mind i don't see people in this community being any ''harsher'' then in most online communities i play in.

Go play a match of fifa15 FUT or WOT for example , in wich a loss means nothing more then a few wasted minutes instead of wasted days/weeks/months an eve loss will cost you ,and you will find people scream and curse at you for the smallest things these days.

Nah eve ain't that bad , it just get's painted as the place sadists and psycho's like to hang out .


Amen.

i tend to think that people who consider the eve community worse than other game communities don't play many other online games. I used to play League of Legends and World of Tanks and those communities make this one look like a bunch of Halo shrouded Saints...



People like to think it's because the average age of online gamers went down , to be honest i more think that the average level of respect went down regardless of age.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1797 - 2015-07-03 16:54:20 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Amen.

i tend to think that people who consider the eve community worse than other game communities don't play many other online games. I used to play League of Legends and World of Tanks and those communities make this one look like a bunch of Halo shrouded Saints...


Yep, especially League of Legends. That place is the toilet of the world of internet gaming.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#1798 - 2015-07-03 17:11:18 UTC
I think it's the illusion of becoming professional.

Games are fun, no doubt. Being paid money to play games? Being paid money to HAVE FUN>!?!?!?!?!

Sign me up!

Thousands of children and young adults, all special snowflakes who will be at the top of the pyramid, see Professional E-sports as an option and either quietly or vocally strive to become #thebest hoping to one day obtain a salary for video gaming.
The fame, notoriety, it's attractive. This want makes the game less fun for them, so they become angry and hateful at all the "noobs" who are holding them back from obtaining their dream.

We're the road blocks to their personal Valhalla.

Kind of like alot of you bad forum posters. Once you realize you're not as superior as you think you, and even have to come face to face with those of us who make you feel inferior cause you to lash out violently. It's a power/control thing. (please don't fall for this)

You know what I mean.
Gyromite
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
#1799 - 2015-07-03 19:34:59 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Doomsday proselytizing will only turn people off from playing.

Regardless of whether or not the game is "shrinking" in terms of numbers, talking about it is only going to affect those who are still here to see it.

Threads like these don't slow down number decreases, only speeds it up.

"Oh, looks like 90 pages of conversation have taken place about how EvE is dying. Better buy more subscription time!"
- no one ever


This, a million times this.

All of the attention and work people have put into this thread could have been spent elsewhere recruiting new players, teaching them, keeping them in game.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1800 - 2015-07-03 23:35:35 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Does losing a travel fit capital pass as "using" it?
Is the largest group in the game awoxing one of their own classed as "using" capitals?
Sure there are still capitals being lost every day but most are not lost in a fight, so much as being unlucky to get caught trying to move them. Few if any groups will form a 100 man fleet so a guy can move his nyx, 90% of the time your on your own and if you get spotted, your dead.



ship undocked = in use regardless of reason.

how are most not lost in a fight? how did they die? self destruct? nope,,,,, they where lost in a fight.
if you've got jump drive trained you've made the list of those worth shooting at. so if you move that cap alone and it gets ganked you should not be surprised even a little.

Sgt Ocker wrote:

The groups who are still using capitals effectively are the same large groups who always did so, just not from one side of TQ to the other in 30 mins.


i don't understand, you've claimed through out this thread that this style of play is dead, yet now you say it's business as usually for everyone in a large group (they adapted) while anyone not in a large group has docked the caps and will never use them again. (they've not adapted?)

total and utter bullshite.



That whole reply is total and utter bullshite
And if you can't see that, I gave you way more credit for intelligence than you deserve.

Only gankers - those who believe 10+ vs 1 is a fight - could even consider what you said as valid.
Sadly there are way too many in Eve with your attitude - Maybe that explains part of the dropping numbers syndrome Eve suffers from.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.