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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1361 - 2015-06-15 11:26:30 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:

After ED were launched 7 months ago, PCU daily average in EvE has come down from way over 40K online daily average to 20K.

Sure there might be other reasons too here like spring/summer (though those do not explain so well dropping numbers of dec-jan-feb-march), and multiple character skilling too, but I would not rule out yet either that players are able to adjust into other games, too.

I guess we will see the truth when/if SC comes out (no idea what kind of it even is gonna be, instances or what), then we can say after (possible) drop of again another 50% in PCU that yeah, people switched games to ED and SC (among others).




GankYou wrote:
I'm not sure what this thread is all about anymore. Smile


The Shrinking Sandbox What?

Some how I wanna get a cat Big smile
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#1362 - 2015-06-15 11:28:28 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
I can also quote myself for the new page,

GankYou wrote:
I'm not sure what this thread is all about anymore. Smile

P.S. RIP SWG - Dear SWG. Cry I used to be a bounty hunter taking out PvP bounties to hunt Jeeedai mostly. And a builder and a trader, and a carebear, along with PvP skirmishes to take over the Restuss city on the moon of Rori in an eternal struggle, and anything that that I am now in EVE - because it was a sandbox, just as EVE is a sandbox. Blink

In fact, I had the choice either starting EVE, or SWG at that time around 2004 - chose EVE, and discovered Star Wars Galaxies only after the NGE expansion, and it still offered more than anything out there on the market.

SWTOR might as well could've been a single player game, because all the content there can be cleared in three months' time - both Republic & Empire.

The (massively) multiplayer part of the MMO is non-existent there, along with PvP, though the raids did offer some fun in 8-16 man groups.

Nightmare TFB/S&V & Hardmode Dread Palace/Fortress operations/raids could keep one occupied for months at a time, but they are still scripted scenarios, which merely require optimisation of timings and min-maxing on the team's part. Smile

All of the servers there were consolidated three times already, after population plunged several times, finally culminating in the game going Free to Play, and even now the total populations on the most active EU / NA servers is a joke.

It tells one, that people do not want more themeparks and are looking for long-term investments. A hybrid of a sandbox with some themepark elements is a success story nowadays - The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be a solid game.

P.S. http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/39pmyb/drifter_incursion_ships_listed_in_overview/


What I see in this thread are cries for less sandbox, not more. Blink

Elite: Dangerous launch coincided with the ISBotter policy change in November,

GankYou wrote:
Mimiko Severovski wrote:
THE DEVS ARE DOING AN AMAZING JOB.


The slide post Nov-Dec was ISBotters getting axed. Blink

http://i.imgur.com/tSqTwl9.png

More here - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571&p=217

The ISBotter topic is partly what I meant by lost integrity - sixty accounts in the hands of one player destroying the ecosystem for the rest spelled the end of EVE in the long-term.

The number of bots and real players are inversely correlated.


People on ED forums are asking for devs to make it more like EVE. P

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1363 - 2015-06-15 11:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
GankYou wrote:


What I see in this thread are cries for less sandbox, not more. Blink


Nah, it´s people who just see different ways to improve sandbox, i.e. we should either concentrate on PvE or PvP rather than improve both and find a nice balance between them.


GankYou wrote:

People on ED forums are asking for devs to make it more like EVE. P


I have seen that, think mostly from old/current EvE players, but they are pretty small minority still at forums too (and we all know only minority of players even read forums, and fraction writes on them, FD has confirmed that on their forums).

Also, it varies A LOT what they think would be "more like EvE", some just want player owned stations/outposts, some corporations like in EvE, some even local chat... Lol
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#1364 - 2015-06-15 11:42:02 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
I'll agree that if Elite: Dangerous gets player-owned stations & co, plus some interaction on planets, even if it's instanced, then we better watch out. Blink

That whole universe feels hollow, though I haven't played it - the Newtonian (?) physics model along with real distances and scaling offers the best-possible framework to base the rest of the game upon.

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1365 - 2015-06-15 11:47:54 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
GankYou wrote:
I'll agree that if Elite: Dangerous gets player-owned stations & co, plus some interaction on planets, even if it's instanced, then we better watch out. Blink


Free flying/landing at planets will be first big expansion (already confirmed and they have enough money for that, and it were even in last Elite from 90´s), but might be LONG wait to get player owned stations, huge empires need to spread first and then they maybe let us have some systems 2000 LY from Sol Shocked

But i would not be worried about those being a threat to EvE, people who have stayed in EvE already know about ED, maybe even tried it (or play both, like me).

But my concern about future of EvE is SC actually, now that we have settled on 20K average online (for summer months not that bad).
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#1366 - 2015-06-15 11:52:04 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
EVE must answer with Walking in Stations at the very least. Blink

Star Citizen looks like a shiny tech demo - nothing more, and as much as I'd love to see it being Freelancer 2, I don't think it's happening.

Hype is High.

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1367 - 2015-06-15 11:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
GankYou wrote:
EVE must answer with Walking in Stations at the very least. Blink

Star Citizen looks like a shiny tech demo - nothing more, and as much as I'd love to see it being Freelancer 2, I don't think it's happening.

Hype is High.


Hahaa actually wish they would bring that and some gunfight (now with free clones), if they had extra resources Big smile

Hoped it so bad... Even marketed a game for my friend with trailer of that women shooting at station that guy doing OB Lol

EDIT: yeah, neither happened...
Ivant Sumboodi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1368 - 2015-06-15 12:14:04 UTC
jesus devs just hyper-crash the PLEX market and get this reckoning fully over with.


make this touted "real economy" be about real actions in game again. hell even null sec minerals aren't worth anything. that says it all.


right right, super-ancient players have very serious RL money tied into this game don't they...
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1369 - 2015-06-15 13:13:13 UTC
Ivant Sumboodi wrote:
jesus devs just hyper-crash the PLEX market and get this reckoning fully over with.


make this touted "real economy" be about real actions in game again. hell even null sec minerals aren't worth anything. that says it all.


right right, super-ancient players have very serious RL money tied into this game don't they...


Null and low sec minerals should be only worth mining actually for big profits, it would push miners into null/low corps and make them important part of their economy, something worth to protect.

There could be actual recruiting of miners (corps) from high sec.

That way we would direct high sec more towards "shooting stuff" (NPC´s), next step to FW / null (PvP or PvE).

Also, PvE increases system stats in null so even pure PvE´s might become welcomed to null.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1370 - 2015-06-15 13:54:18 UTC
Should propably add to my suggestion above, that to make transition from high sec mining to low/null mining softer, CCP would probably need "super miner", something tanked like a Orca with same kind of cargo space.

One that would attract NPC´s like a honey bees outside high sec (so would need to be heavily protected outside high sec).

it could help high sec miners to accept less profit from previous "hold" with much longer periods to full a hold.

In low/null sec this would create new kind of gameplay, as these would need constant protection.
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
#1371 - 2015-06-15 15:04:47 UTC
Is this thread still going....hasn't eve died already?

uɐıssnɹ pɐǝɹ ʇ,uɐɔ ı ʇnq ʎɹɹos ɯ,ı
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1372 - 2015-06-15 16:27:10 UTC
Prt Scr wrote:
Is this thread still going....hasn't eve died already?


Actually, topic/headline says "shrinking", not "dying", big difference Ugh
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#1373 - 2015-06-15 17:39:40 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Should propably add to my suggestion above, that to make transition from high sec mining to low/null mining softer, CCP would probably need "super miner", something tanked like a Orca with same kind of cargo space.


Something like... a Rorqual? It needs a rebalance anyway. A Hulk fleet supported on grid by a Rorq would be a mining machine. The trick is to make it so that the Rorq doesn't automatically get a "kill me" sign on its back when it leaves the safety of a station or POS.

As to whether PVE/industry players are finally welcomed in sov null, that's as much up to the alliances there as it is up to CCP. The sov index calculations and the huge recent buffs to industry should help.

As for high sec mining, I was surprised to see that one of the most significant indicators of whether a new player stayed in the game was whether they mined. Correlation does not causation prove, but the correlation is there. It's certainly a reliable source of income for new players. I don't see the value in nerfing it into the ground; I think CCP's approach of seriously buffing it outside of high sec is the better option.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1374 - 2015-06-15 17:45:15 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Should propably add to my suggestion above, that to make transition from high sec mining to low/null mining softer, CCP would probably need "super miner", something tanked like a Orca with same kind of cargo space.


Something like... a Rorqual? It needs a rebalance anyway. A Hulk fleet supported on grid by a Rorq would be a mining machine. The trick is to make it so that the Rorq doesn't automatically get a "kill me" sign on its back when it leaves the safety of a station or POS.

As to whether PVE/industry players are finally welcomed in sov null, that's as much up to the alliances there as it is up to CCP. The sov index calculations and the huge recent buffs to industry should help.

As for high sec mining, I was surprised to see that one of the most significant indicators of whether a new player stayed in the game was whether they mined. Correlation does not causation prove, but the correlation is there. It's certainly a reliable source of income for new players. I don't see the value in nerfing it into the ground; I think CCP's approach of seriously buffing it outside of high sec is the better option.



Honestly Comet mining or mining moons with specialized ships in Null/Low in order to let every day players get high end R64/R32 goo.

That would be the only thing I can think of to "save" mining and give the boost others are looking for to the "pvp" areas of space.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1375 - 2015-06-15 17:57:43 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Should propably add to my suggestion above, that to make transition from high sec mining to low/null mining softer, CCP would probably need "super miner", something tanked like a Orca with same kind of cargo space.


Something like... a Rorqual? It needs a rebalance anyway. A Hulk fleet supported on grid by a Rorq would be a mining machine. The trick is to make it so that the Rorq doesn't automatically get a "kill me" sign on its back when it leaves the safety of a station or POS.

As to whether PVE/industry players are finally welcomed in sov null, that's as much up to the alliances there as it is up to CCP. The sov index calculations and the huge recent buffs to industry should help.

As for high sec mining, I was surprised to see that one of the most significant indicators of whether a new player stayed in the game was whether they mined. Correlation does not causation prove, but the correlation is there. It's certainly a reliable source of income for new players. I don't see the value in nerfing it into the ground; I think CCP's approach of seriously buffing it outside of high sec is the better option.



Honestly Comet mining or mining moons with specialized ships in Null/Low in order to let every day players get high end R64/R32 goo.

That would be the only thing I can think of to "save" mining and give the boost others are looking for to the "pvp" areas of space.


Yep, my intention were not to say "nerff high sec mining to ground", but "make it one of first paths after you decide if you go null or low sec mining or PvP. or stay in high sec with better paying PvE/industry".
But just about right balance where low or null sec is more attractive for miners and PvE´rs too than now.

How about also with "capture moon goo", spread "isk goo" all over sov sec so every system comes worth having manned/captured, and boost minerals and rats/missions in low sec and null sec to make them more appealing, in right balance ofc.?
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#1376 - 2015-06-15 21:24:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Ivant Sumboodi wrote:
jesus devs just hyper-crash the PLEX market and get this reckoning fully over with.


make this touted "real economy" be about real actions in game again. hell even null sec minerals aren't worth anything. that says it all.


right right, super-ancient players have very serious RL money tied into this game don't they...


In Stain there are veldspar rocks as big as stations, very sad to see them left untouched.

Ivant you are wrong, to me null sec minerals are priceless. These are the very same minerals that will help me one day build massive fleets to dominate Stain.

I have tried to create an economy/blue community in Stain many times and was not successful, I think the issue is that there are only a small handfull of people who see things the way I do and understand what is involved in having a player driven economy. I honestly thought a few crazy miners would have fitted up prospects and come down to Stain to mine and sell me their minerals, not a single one came.

I hope you can see from my story that a "real economy" actually is about real actions in game, the part you seem to struggle with is that the players have to get involved and do whats needed to make it work.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1377 - 2015-06-15 22:56:53 UTC
Aaron wrote:

Ivant you are wrong, to me null sec minerals are priceless. These are the very same minerals that will help me one day build massive fleets to dominate Stain.

I have tried to create an economy/blue community in Stain many times and was not successful,


Just out of intrest, do you Lottery much? Big smile
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#1378 - 2015-06-16 01:55:33 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Aaron wrote:

Ivant you are wrong, to me null sec minerals are priceless. These are the very same minerals that will help me one day build massive fleets to dominate Stain.

I have tried to create an economy/blue community in Stain many times and was not successful,


Just out of intrest, do you Lottery much? Big smile


Big smile Exactly the response i expected, You have no idea what I'm on about.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#1379 - 2015-06-16 02:00:10 UTC
OMG.. im amazed.. Sony just showed Eve Valkerie as the Morpheus presentation is beginning

CCP you too silent bro..
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1380 - 2015-06-16 02:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
OMG.. im amazed.. Sony just showed Eve Valkerie as the Morpheus presentation is beginning

CCP you too silent bro..

It was also part of the Sony demo of Morpheus at E3 last year:

http://youtu.be/MAF1aG5sQ20

Fair to say, not a new development for Valkyrie hype and probably off topic.