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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1241 - 2015-06-13 20:21:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Your own sig implictly conflates "hi-sec" with "non PvP".


Roll

You are better than that.

His sig simply states the facts. Most people in this game avoid pvp, most people in this game live in high sec. Neither of those two have anything to do with one another, however the fact that CCP constantly improves, modifies and tries to change the focus of pvp is concerning to the majority who do not wish to partake.

How you managed to surmise your premise from that data, I have no idea.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1242 - 2015-06-13 20:22:32 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

If players open their maps and look at the statistics, it is easy to see that high sec is one of the most dangerous places in the EVE Universe. High sec and low sec combined are more dangerous than all of null sec.


Again with this lie, trying to use Concord's killboard to push your narrative.

You carebears are disgraceful.



Now it matters HOW a ship is killed, or by who?

You have yet to answer my question, where is your data that High Sec is safer than half a decade ago?

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1243 - 2015-06-13 20:23:20 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

His sig simply states the facts.


Another lie. Chunks' sig, the latter half especially, is trying to push for CCP to waste more time with banal, boring content that does not retain subs, for his own benefit.

You lot need to stop with the outright lying.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1244 - 2015-06-13 20:23:32 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers. Without their money CCP would be in quite a tough place.
Didn't you claim it was 62% a while back?, You couldn't prove that claim and you can't prove this claim either.

Still waiting on your in depth analysis and presentation supporting your claims, hoping for graphs too.


Oh my, aren't you slow learning? The evidence hs been provided two, or maybe three times already.

Here you have it straight from the horse's mouth:

https://youtu.be/gJlNGtXts_E?t=21m20s

"Professionals" (do everything): 30%
"Entrepreneurs" (do everything but PvP): 25%
"Agressors" (only do PvP and socialize): 8%
"Socials" (they mostly socialize and skillqueue online): 12%
"Traditionals" (They PvE and play EVE as a traditional MMO): 25%

25% +25% =50% of players who mostly do PvE. +12% who mostly chat and skillqueue online, that's 62% of players who barely PvP.

Bonus, on where are characters logged in:

https://twitter.com/CCPQuant/status/590854488405192704/photo/1
That presentation is based on characters, not unique players. 2 very different things and something to consider with most players having at least one alt that specialises in areas outside of their main playstyle.

Looking at the presentation by CCP Quant I see that some of the entrepreneurs you say do everything but PvP indulge in some very PvP like activities, such as tackling and kill assists; as do some of the social group, some the traditionals are also involved in tackling.

Your claims have been disputed elsewhere in this thread. You're interpreting the data subjectively and to compound it all, the data actually refers to something else entirely.


You're wrong. The analytics are based on unique subscribers and what do they do across their accounts and the characters in them. This is why they claim that at Fanfest "Professionals" are 50% of the attendants, but only 30% of the actual subscribers.
My mistake, I stand corrected.

You're still interpreting the data objectively and drawing debatable conclusions from it though.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1245 - 2015-06-13 20:24:35 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Now it matters HOW a ship is killed, or by who?


If you're going to claim that pure ship loss is a measure of "danger", it does.

If that's the case, we cut the numbers for highsec by 40% at least.


Quote:

You have yet to answer my question


Yes, I have, you just can't read.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1246 - 2015-06-13 20:26:12 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

His sig simply states the facts.


Another lie. Chunks' sig, the latter half especially, is trying to push for CCP to waste more time with banal, boring content that does not retain subs, for his own benefit.

You lot need to stop with the outright lying.



Because YOU think it is boring, doesn't mean it is to the rest of us.

I don't like PI, but I am not going to call on CCP to remove it because I think it is dumb. You need to stop associating what your opinions are with facts about the game.

You have no data that PVE doesn't retain subs, in fact most of the data point to the contrary. Since most people in this game prefer not to PVP, the subs are best kept with content dealing with PVE.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1247 - 2015-06-13 20:27:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Now it matters HOW a ship is killed, or by who?


If you're going to claim that pure ship loss is a measure of "danger", it does.

If that's the case, we cut the numbers for highsec by 40% at least.


Quote:

You have yet to answer my question


Yes, I have, you just can't read.


I have posted CCPs numbers on ship loss in Isk, it out ISKs 0.0
I have posted readily available numbers on raw killmails, it out kills 0.0

You have posted no data, none... but you come here with the lie that you have. Your personal feelings are not data.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1248 - 2015-06-13 20:29:44 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Because YOU think it is boring, doesn't mean it is to the rest of us.


No, the fact that people who engage exclusively in said boring content quit at a far higher rate than those who experience PvP makes it boring.

You can enjoy boredom, and that's fine, but you can't say it's not boring, because the deleterious effect that it's existence has on player subs makes that quite clear.



Quote:

You need to stop associating what your opinions are with facts about the game.


Such projection.

Quote:

You have no data that PVE doesn't retain subs


CCP's own statements show that it doesn't. PvP encounters result in a much higher likelihood of subscription retention.

Easy as that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1249 - 2015-06-13 20:34:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Market McSelling Alt
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Because YOU think it is boring, doesn't mean it is to the rest of us.


No, the fact that people who engage exclusively in said boring content quit at a far higher rate than those who experience PvP makes it boring.

You can enjoy boredom, and that's fine, but you can't say it's not boring, because the deleterious effect that it's existence has on player subs makes that quite clear.



Quote:

You need to stop associating what your opinions are with facts about the game.


Such projection.

Quote:

You have no data that PVE doesn't retain subs


CCP's own statements show that it doesn't. PvP encounters result in a much higher likelihood of subscription retention.

Easy as that.


I asked you for data that High Sec is safer. I understand that there is a poll of players who have joined the game, and I am well aware of what their responses are. I don't think those responses are nearly as helpful to your cause as you think, but I won't argue that at the moment.

What I am going to argue is, High Sec is not safer, and you have nothing to prove that it is. I can prove however that ships are killed there in greater isk and raw numbers than before, and at higher rates than 0.0.

Low Sec is the most dangerous part of the game, but it is also the part where hardly anyone wants to play in.

Caveat: W-Space is probably the most dangerous, but data for W-Space has been negated by CCP for a while now.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1250 - 2015-06-13 20:38:58 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

I asked you for data that High Sec is safer.


And I already told you, the mere removal of awoxing alone proves that point, along with the host of other nerfs. You can stomp your feet and scream "data!" like a magic word all you want, but you're just being pedantic.

The nerfs to highsec conflict have been listed out time and again, even in this very thread. Are you telling me they had zero effect? Roll


Quote:

What I am going to argue is, High Sec is not safer, and you have nothing to prove that it is.


So you are claiming that the many, many nerfs to highsec conflict had zero effect, yet more lies from you. Why you're trying to lie is no mystery either, you're trying to advance the carebear narrative past the f.a.c.t. that CCP themselves have told us that PvP content drives better sub retention.


Quote:

I can prove however that ships are killed there in greater isk and raw numbers than before, and at higher rates than 0.0.


And that hurts your case, since with so many highsec safety buffs, people have to whelp more ships to Concord to kill what they could more easily before.


Quote:

Low Sec is the most dangerous part of the game


Make up your mind already, those goalposts are getting tired.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#1251 - 2015-06-13 20:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
I wonder how i would be concidered with my 3 accounts ?
One with a main toon living in a WH.
A second one with a main toon living in Low Sec engaged in FW
And the thrid one with a main toon living in High Sec running missions and incursions.

Question
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1252 - 2015-06-13 20:47:13 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

And I already told you, the mere removal of awoxing alone proves that point, along with the host of other nerfs. You can stomp your feet and scream "data!" like a magic word all you want, but you're just being pedantic.

The nerfs to highsec conflict have been listed out time and again, even in this very thread. Are you telling me they had zero effect? Roll



Make up your mind already, those goalposts are getting tired.



Awoxing only ever happened in high sec huh? OK

But one change to the mechanics of the game doesn't make an entire section of the universe "safer". It makes being in a corp safer perhaps.

I am going to let you believe you won this argument now. As I see there is little point in trying to convince you otherwise. i will let the words speak for themselves now.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1253 - 2015-06-13 20:57:42 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Awoxing only ever happened in high sec huh?


More attempts at pedantry. I would say "you can do better", but you've proven that you can't.


Quote:

But one change to the mechanics of the game doesn't make an entire section of the universe "safer".


It literally does. It stripped away one of the few methods of non consensual PvP left in highsec, allowing people to literally just turn it off.

Yes, that makes highsec safer.

Quote:

I am going to let you believe you won this argument now. As I see there is little point in trying to convince you otherwise. i will let the words speak for themselves now.


This is called "trying to save face", boys and girls. Rather than admit he's got his tail between his legs, he attempts to snark his way out of the rout he's in.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#1254 - 2015-06-13 21:06:55 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Awoxing only ever happened in high sec huh?


More attempts at pedantry. I would say "you can do better", but you've proven that you can't.


Quote:

But one change to the mechanics of the game doesn't make an entire section of the universe "safer".


It literally does. It stripped away one of the few methods of non consensual PvP left in highsec, allowing people to literally just turn it off.

Yes, that makes highsec safer.

Quote:

I am going to let you believe you won this argument now. As I see there is little point in trying to convince you otherwise. i will let the words speak for themselves now.


This is called "trying to save face", boys and girls. Rather than admit he's got his tail between his legs, he attempts to snark his way out of the rout he's in.


just from you admitting that you stalk players and prefer to stalk people proves even more why folks are leaving and new players are not sticking around. its players like you that enjoy harassing players.. oh you're in .Code.. go figure now it makes sense.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1255 - 2015-06-13 21:10:21 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:

just from you admitting that you stalk players


Lots of people "stalk" players. They even have an ingame mechanic for it, the watchlist.


Quote:

and prefer to stalk people proves even more why folks are leaving and new players are not sticking around.


Nope. According to CCP's own data, it's because new players are being bored to death in highsec, probably due to lack of conflict.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#1256 - 2015-06-13 21:14:22 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:

just from you admitting that you stalk players


Lots of people "stalk" players. They even have an ingame mechanic for it, the watchlist.


Quote:

and prefer to stalk people proves even more why folks are leaving and new players are not sticking around.


Nope. According to CCP's own data, it's because new players are being bored to death in highsec, probably due to lack of conflict.


pay attention folks, a real pro psycho is on the forums.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1257 - 2015-06-13 21:16:13 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:

just from you admitting that you stalk players


Lots of people "stalk" players. They even have an ingame mechanic for it, the watchlist.


Quote:

and prefer to stalk people proves even more why folks are leaving and new players are not sticking around.


Nope. According to CCP's own data, it's because new players are being bored to death in highsec, probably due to lack of conflict.


pay attention folks, a real pro psycho is on the forums.


High functioning sociopath, actually.

But unlike some who tend towards butthurt, I'm perfectly capable of drawing the line between real life and a videogame.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#1258 - 2015-06-13 21:19:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:

just from you admitting that you stalk players


Lots of people "stalk" players. They even have an ingame mechanic for it, the watchlist.


Quote:

and prefer to stalk people proves even more why folks are leaving and new players are not sticking around.


Nope. According to CCP's own data, it's because new players are being bored to death in highsec, probably due to lack of conflict.


pay attention folks, a real pro psycho is on the forums.


High functioning sociopath, actually.

But unlike some who tend towards butthurt, I'm perfectly capable of drawing the line between real life and a videogame.


I think you don't, I think you have some serious issues going in real life, cause you prefer to Stalk people, without even showing any kind of common sense, you are aware that stalking is considered a crime both in game and out of game right? see its folks like you that play this game cause they're the outcast of society, community rejects that ends up killing cats.. then kids..

so it does indeed show a prime example on why the numbers in eve online are shrinking.. its really simple that players are and have gotten fed up playing with sicko's like you.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1259 - 2015-06-13 21:21:44 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:

I think you don't, I think you have some serious issues going in real life, cause you prefer to Stalk people


I do not stalk people, although I have been stalked and threatened myself. I kill other players in a videogame.


Quote:
you are aware that stalking is considered a crime both in game and out of game right?


In game? You can follow someone around all you feel like. It's called scouting, typically.


Quote:

see its folks like you that play this game cause they're the outcast of society, community rejects that ends up killing cats.. then kids..


Go home, you're drunk.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#1260 - 2015-06-13 21:30:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:

I think you don't, I think you have some serious issues going in real life, cause you prefer to Stalk people


I do not stalk people, although I have been stalked and threatened myself. I kill other players in a videogame.


Quote:
you are aware that stalking is considered a crime both in game and out of game right?


In game? You can follow someone around all you feel like. It's called scouting, typically.


Quote:

see its folks like you that play this game cause they're the outcast of society, community rejects that ends up killing cats.. then kids..


Go home, you're drunk.


what are you going to do about it? stalk me since you enjoy stalking players and harassing them. go ahead try it I dare ya