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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1201 - 2015-06-13 15:24:23 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

What is true is that EVE would die without highsec PvErs.


Still wrong. You don't consume anything, compared to the rest of the game, and the economy lives and breathes are consumption and destruction of assets.

You already got put in your place by Malcanis about this, you probably shouldn't try repeating this falsehood.


How many assets do you owe? And how many assets are stored in cancelled accounts? How many supercapitals never log in? How many ships from past doctrines are now collecting dust? And how much ISK do you owe?

Look at the forums. There's a thread about a guy who was scammed of 100 billion ISK, LIQUID ISK. What was that money doing other than sit in a wallet? What will do now that it has changed hands?

Think of every unsubbed player... trillions upon trillions worth of assets which exist only as a entry in a database. Would you bet how much of all the wealth and assets ever generated by EVE are not ingame but just stored in the servers? 80%? 90%?

And now that we've established where does the wealth go...

... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers. Without their money CCP would be in quite a tough place.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1202 - 2015-06-13 17:12:05 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

*snipped out the silly ranting*

... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers.


And you're completely wrong.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1203 - 2015-06-13 17:39:17 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers. Without their money CCP would be in quite a tough place.
Didn't you claim it was 62% a while back?, You couldn't prove that claim and you can't prove this claim either.

Still waiting on your in depth analysis and presentation supporting your claims, hoping for graphs too.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1204 - 2015-06-13 18:37:30 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers. Without their money CCP would be in quite a tough place.
Didn't you claim it was 62% a while back?, You couldn't prove that claim and you can't prove this claim either.

Still waiting on your in depth analysis and presentation supporting your claims, hoping for graphs too.



No, I claimed there was 70% and CCP says you should STFU and research before you blap your lips.

http://archive.evenews24.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/04.jpg

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1205 - 2015-06-13 18:41:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers. Without their money CCP would be in quite a tough place.
Didn't you claim it was 62% a while back?, You couldn't prove that claim and you can't prove this claim either.

Still waiting on your in depth analysis and presentation supporting your claims, hoping for graphs too.


Oh my, aren't you slow learning? The evidence hs been provided two, or maybe three times already.

Here you have it straight from the horse's mouth:

https://youtu.be/gJlNGtXts_E?t=21m20s

"Professionals" (do everything): 30%
"Entrepreneurs" (do everything but PvP): 25%
"Agressors" (only do PvP and socialize): 8%
"Socials" (they mostly socialize and skillqueue online): 12%
"Traditionals" (They PvE and play EVE as a traditional MMO): 25%

25% +25% =50% of players who mostly do PvE. +12% who mostly chat and skillqueue online, that's 62% of players who barely PvP.

Bonus, on where are characters logged in:

https://twitter.com/CCPQuant/status/590854488405192704/photo/1

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#1206 - 2015-06-13 18:43:18 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

What is true is that EVE would die without highsec PvErs.


Still wrong. You don't consume anything, compared to the rest of the game, and the economy lives and breathes are consumption and destruction of assets.

You already got put in your place by Malcanis about this, you probably shouldn't try repeating this falsehood.


They do provide the loot & salvage, though, as well as LP store merchandise.

All parts of the whole are important.

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1207 - 2015-06-13 18:47:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

*snipped out the silly ranting*

... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers.


And you're completely wrong.


Yes, certainly CCP doesn't knows what do their subscribers do with their accounts. When they stated at Fanfest 2015 than 50% of their customers barely PvP and just PvE they were totally wrong. They should have asked you, probably.


(Anyway, knowing and acting accordingly to knowledge are very different things, specially when there's a cognitive dissonance between what CCP thinks about their game and player base, and what reality stubbornly tells to CCP)

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1208 - 2015-06-13 18:50:32 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers. Without their money CCP would be in quite a tough place.
Didn't you claim it was 62% a while back?, You couldn't prove that claim and you can't prove this claim either.

Still waiting on your in depth analysis and presentation supporting your claims, hoping for graphs too.


Oh my, aren't you slow learning? The evidence hs been provided two, or maybe three times already.

Here you have it straight from the horse's mouth:

https://youtu.be/gJlNGtXts_E?t=21m20s

"Professionals" (do everything): 30%
"Entrepreneurs" (do everything but PvP): 25%
"Agressors" (only do PvP and socialize): 8%
"Socials" (they mostly socialize and skillqueue online): 12%
"Traditionals" (They PvE and play EVE as a traditional MMO): 25%

25% +25% =50% of players who mostly do PvE. +12% who mostly chat and skillqueue online, that's 62% of players who barely PvP.

Bonus, on where are characters logged in:

https://twitter.com/CCPQuant/status/590854488405192704/photo/1


The best post in this thread hands down. The truth still hurts as seen by all those who are still arguing with the data.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1209 - 2015-06-13 18:51:32 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

What is true is that EVE would die without highsec PvErs.


Still wrong. You don't consume anything, compared to the rest of the game, and the economy lives and breathes are consumption and destruction of assets.

You already got put in your place by Malcanis about this, you probably shouldn't try repeating this falsehood.


They do provide the loot & salvage, though, as well as LP store merchandise.

All parts of the whole are important.



And don't forget that according to CCP, 2012 and 2013 stats shows Production centered in High Sec and Destruction fairly sparse throughout 0.0 with the hottest areas of fighting in the game in... High Sec

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65749/1/productionVsDestruction_2013.png

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1210 - 2015-06-13 18:54:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

What is true is that EVE would die without highsec PvErs.


Still wrong. You don't consume anything, compared to the rest of the game, and the economy lives and breathes are consumption and destruction of assets.

You already got put in your place by Malcanis about this, you probably shouldn't try repeating this falsehood.


They do provide the loot & salvage, though, as well as LP store merchandise.

All parts of the whole are important.



And don't forget that according to CCP, 2012 and 2013 stats shows Production centered in High Sec and Destruction fairly sparse throughout 0.0 with the hottest areas of fighting in the game in... High Sec

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65749/1/productionVsDestruction_2013.png


Quoting that isn't your best idea. It shows that, barring a handful of systems, mostly trade hubs, highsec wouldn't even really be on that map. It also shows the need to force production out of highsec.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1211 - 2015-06-13 18:56:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

What is true is that EVE would die without highsec PvErs.


Still wrong. You don't consume anything, compared to the rest of the game, and the economy lives and breathes are consumption and destruction of assets.

You already got put in your place by Malcanis about this, you probably shouldn't try repeating this falsehood.


They do provide the loot & salvage, though, as well as LP store merchandise.

All parts of the whole are important.



And don't forget that according to CCP, 2012 and 2013 stats shows Production centered in High Sec and Destruction fairly sparse throughout 0.0 with the hottest areas of fighting in the game in... High Sec

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65749/1/productionVsDestruction_2013.png


Quoting that isn't your best idea. It shows that, barring a handful of systems, mostly trade hubs, highsec wouldn't even really be on that map.



Then you don't know how to read it. There are 6 systems in High Sec that have more total isk killed than any system in 0.0

There is one system in High Sec that has more isk killed than any 6 systems combined in 0.0

Now, you want to claim there isn't a need for the single most active part of space in the game? Go ahead. But people are going to call you out on it.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1212 - 2015-06-13 18:58:27 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

25% +25% =50% of players who mostly do PvE.


As usual, you resort to total dishonesty.

PvE does not include industry, which the "entrepreneur" category belongs to.

I have one market character for every account I have. Moreso in scouts. According to you, that means that I'm a wretched carebear like you? Get over yourself.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1213 - 2015-06-13 18:59:42 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Then you don't know how to read it. There are 6 systems in High Sec that have more total isk killed than any system in 0.0


Your point being? Turns out trade hubs and chokepoints are dangerous, and the rest of highsec absolutely isn't. Shock and amazement, apparently. Roll

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1214 - 2015-06-13 19:00:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers. Without their money CCP would be in quite a tough place.
Didn't you claim it was 62% a while back?, You couldn't prove that claim and you can't prove this claim either.

Still waiting on your in depth analysis and presentation supporting your claims, hoping for graphs too.


Oh my, aren't you slow learning? The evidence hs been provided two, or maybe three times already.

Here you have it straight from the horse's mouth:

https://youtu.be/gJlNGtXts_E?t=21m20s

"Professionals" (do everything): 30%
"Entrepreneurs" (do everything but PvP): 25%
"Agressors" (only do PvP and socialize): 8%
"Socials" (they mostly socialize and skillqueue online): 12%
"Traditionals" (They PvE and play EVE as a traditional MMO): 25%

25% +25% =50% of players who mostly do PvE. +12% who mostly chat and skillqueue online, that's 62% of players who barely PvP.

Bonus, on where are characters logged in:

https://twitter.com/CCPQuant/status/590854488405192704/photo/1
That presentation is based on characters, not unique players. 2 very different things and something to consider with most players having at least one alt that specialises in areas outside of their main playstyle.

Looking at the presentation by CCP Quant I see that some of the entrepreneurs you say do everything but PvP indulge in some very PvP like activities, such as tackling and kill assists; as do some of the social group, some the traditionals are also involved in tackling.

Your claims have been disputed elsewhere in this thread. You're interpreting the data subjectively and to compound it all, the data actually refers to something else entirely.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1215 - 2015-06-13 19:01:16 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers. Without their money CCP would be in quite a tough place.
Didn't you claim it was 62% a while back?, You couldn't prove that claim and you can't prove this claim either.

Still waiting on your in depth analysis and presentation supporting your claims, hoping for graphs too.


Oh my, aren't you slow learning? The evidence hs been provided two, or maybe three times already.

Here you have it straight from the horse's mouth:

https://youtu.be/gJlNGtXts_E?t=21m20s

"Professionals" (do everything): 30%
"Entrepreneurs" (do everything but PvP): 25%
"Agressors" (only do PvP and socialize): 8%
"Socials" (they mostly socialize and skillqueue online): 12%
"Traditionals" (They PvE and play EVE as a traditional MMO): 25%

25% +25% =50% of players who mostly do PvE. +12% who mostly chat and skillqueue online, that's 62% of players who barely PvP.

Bonus, on where are characters logged in:

https://twitter.com/CCPQuant/status/590854488405192704/photo/1


So you think that to PVE only, you have to live in high sec?

You don't have an honest bone in your body, do you?
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1216 - 2015-06-13 19:02:08 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers. Without their money CCP would be in quite a tough place.
Didn't you claim it was 62% a while back?, You couldn't prove that claim and you can't prove this claim either.

Still waiting on your in depth analysis and presentation supporting your claims, hoping for graphs too.


Oh my, aren't you slow learning? The evidence hs been provided two, or maybe three times already.

Here you have it straight from the horse's mouth:

https://youtu.be/gJlNGtXts_E?t=21m20s

"Professionals" (do everything): 30%
"Entrepreneurs" (do everything but PvP): 25%
"Agressors" (only do PvP and socialize): 8%
"Socials" (they mostly socialize and skillqueue online): 12%
"Traditionals" (They PvE and play EVE as a traditional MMO): 25%

25% +25% =50% of players who mostly do PvE. +12% who mostly chat and skillqueue online, that's 62% of players who barely PvP.

Bonus, on where are characters logged in:

https://twitter.com/CCPQuant/status/590854488405192704/photo/1
That presentation is based on characters, not unique players. 2 very different things and something to consider with most players having at least one alt that specialises in areas outside of their main playstyle.

Looking at the presentation by CCP Quant I see that some of the entrepreneurs you say do everything but PvP indulge in some very PvP like activities, such as tackling and kill assists; as do some of the social group, some the traditionals are also involved in tackling.

Your claims have been disputed elsewhere in this thread, the data you're saying supports them actually refers to something else entirely.


So you are arguing that high sec is not essential because people do their activities there but they actually call 0.0 their home?!

So if you removed high sec they would then what? Just do the things they do in 0.0? There is a reason that Character is in high sec, but you are ignoring that.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1217 - 2015-06-13 19:02:24 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

25% +25% =50% of players who mostly do PvE.


As usual, you resort to total dishonesty.

PvE does not include industry, which the "entrepreneur" category belongs to.

I have one market character for every account I have. Moreso in scouts. According to you, that means that I'm a wretched carebear like you? Get over yourself.

Industry is PVP. CCP Rise counted the activity as a social experience that retains players. Besides look at all the mining barges, freighters, and industrial ships on killboards.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1218 - 2015-06-13 19:04:17 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
... my point was that highsec PvErs are 50% of the subscribers. Without their money CCP would be in quite a tough place.
Didn't you claim it was 62% a while back?, You couldn't prove that claim and you can't prove this claim either.

Still waiting on your in depth analysis and presentation supporting your claims, hoping for graphs too.


Oh my, aren't you slow learning? The evidence hs been provided two, or maybe three times already.

Here you have it straight from the horse's mouth:

https://youtu.be/gJlNGtXts_E?t=21m20s

"Professionals" (do everything): 30%
"Entrepreneurs" (do everything but PvP): 25%
"Agressors" (only do PvP and socialize): 8%
"Socials" (they mostly socialize and skillqueue online): 12%
"Traditionals" (They PvE and play EVE as a traditional MMO): 25%

25% +25% =50% of players who mostly do PvE. +12% who mostly chat and skillqueue online, that's 62% of players who barely PvP.

Bonus, on where are characters logged in:

https://twitter.com/CCPQuant/status/590854488405192704/photo/1


So you think that to PVE only, you have to live in high sec?

You don't have an honest bone in your body, do you?


There is nothing more dishonest then a well spoken individual who takes things that are not present and makes them so for their own justifications.

No where did that person make that claim. You are very skilled at forum-fu but you take things out of context when they suit you and blatantly lie about intent and make connections not-valid when you need to rebuff. Try arguing the facts instead of the person.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1219 - 2015-06-13 19:04:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


So you think that to PVE only, you have to live in High sec?

You don't have an honest bone in your body, do you?

So you think that to PVP only, you have to live in Null/low sec?

You don't have an honest bone in your body, do you?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1220 - 2015-06-13 19:05:41 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

So you are arguing that high sec is not essential because people do their activities there but they actually call 0.0 their home?!


No, I'm claiming that highsec is not anywhere near as essential as you puffed up, chestbeating carebears are trying to claim with your deliberately misrepresented stats.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.