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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1181 - 2015-06-13 12:36:23 UTC
Pops Tickle wrote:
I must say that I am glad the developers do not listen to any of these threads and actually have started figuring out what is true and what isn't. And that is all which matters.


What is true is that EVE would die without highsec PvErs. And not die as in "oh, looks like this is getting empty", but die as in "do you remember your last paychek? Well, it was the last one, truly".

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#1182 - 2015-06-13 12:39:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


The really funny part, Milla, is that you're talking to someone who has been doxxed, stalked, and threatened in real life, not just chased around in a spaceship video game.


I can't imagine why.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1183 - 2015-06-13 12:41:21 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


The really funny part, Milla, is that you're talking to someone who has been doxxed, stalked, and threatened in real life, not just chased around in a spaceship video game.


I can't imagine why.



Funny, the guy making the claim that he was chased IRL over his actions in a video game thinks that there is A) Nothing wrong with the way he acts in a video game and B) thinks we have a great community.

Roll

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1184 - 2015-06-13 12:41:41 UTC
Pops Tickle wrote:
I must say that I am glad the developers do not listen to any of these threads and actually have started figuring out what is true and what isn't. And that is all which matters.

So only threads where devs get to do a little unwarranted and often premature chest beating - Like the one referenced in your sig - are valid?

Hundreds, in fact thousands of players no longer logging in shows devs are right and everyone else is wrong.

What CCP is relying on for its future is a handful of ex players pushing the game in a direction that suits their (and possibly a few friends who still play that they listen to over the wider community), idea of what eve should be.
It might work, far bigger chance it won't change much at all.
When your focus becomes too narrow, you lose out on a lot of opportunities for progress.

FYI, The reason devs have never been able to prove of disprove the myth surrounding griefing and new player retention - They have never really tried. And never will because for the myth to be validated would be risking the whole premise on which they are trying to build their vision of Eve.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1185 - 2015-06-13 12:55:53 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:

and lets not forget while yes eve has this, it also has the most rude, vile, vindictive, hyper-aggressive community in all of mmo gaming. its so bad here that eve online struggles to break 30k online players on a Good Day. its so obvious that the games numbers are tanking that when you bring it up in-game to season vets that they darn near have a stroke or ignore you.
your game is sucking right now bro
all ccp does is figure out what else to nerf while avoiding the real things that need to be nerf'd!! all ccp does is cater to the large coalitions then say its a sandbox game.. which it is NOT... eve hasn't been a sandbox game for a very long time this has been written time and time again and in every way.. eve online is not a sandbox any more..



It looks like I am playing a completely different game than you are.

Not unless you never read your own alliance chat, what is posted in local or even some of the alliance mails. My short time with an alt in Brave was - Interesting.
It is interesting how the base primal urges of a few can affect the masses.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#1186 - 2015-06-13 13:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Mimiko Severovski wrote:
THE DEVS ARE DOING AN AMAZING JOB.


The slide post Nov-Dec was ISBotters getting axed. Blink

http://i.imgur.com/tSqTwl9.png

More here - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571&p=217

The ISBotter topic is partly what I meant by lost integrity - sixty accounts in the hands of one player destroying the ecosystem for the rest spelled the end of EVE in the long-term.

The number of bots and real players are inversely correlated.

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1187 - 2015-06-13 14:02:43 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

What is true is that EVE would die without highsec PvErs.


Still wrong. You don't consume anything, compared to the rest of the game, and the economy lives and breathes are consumption and destruction of assets.

You already got put in your place by Malcanis about this, you probably shouldn't try repeating this falsehood.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1188 - 2015-06-13 14:04:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


The really funny part, Milla, is that you're talking to someone who has been doxxed, stalked, and threatened in real life, not just chased around in a spaceship video game.


I can't imagine why.


I awoxed an Orca, and he thought it was a really big deal. When I wouldn't reimburse him for "cheating" him out his anti tanked capital ship that had no defensive drones, I didn't hear anything for about two weeks, then he sent me a picture of my front door with "see ya soon" written on it through the in game mail client.

True to form, CCP did nothing.

So, much like you and so many other carebears, he took the game much too seriously, and equated "crimes" in the game with actions taken in real life.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1189 - 2015-06-13 14:08:01 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

What is true is that EVE would die without highsec PvErs.


Still wrong. You don't consume anything, compared to the rest of the game, and the economy lives and breathes are consumption and destruction of assets.

You already got put in your place by Malcanis about this, you probably shouldn't try repeating this falsehood.


This is off topic but has to be responded to. Eve is not about the destruction of assets... hence why individual asset/wealth continues to increase on average over time.

Eve is about the collection of assets. In that 70% of this game lives in high-sec, and about the same amount of raw materials turned into assets for game use are manufactured in high-sec, this game would be dead without High-Sec players.

I would even go as far as to say this game would be dead without Jita, but again, this is all very off topic to the general shrinking numbers of the game and High-Sec isn't going anywhere.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1190 - 2015-06-13 14:12:33 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

This is off topic but has to be responded to. Eve is not about the destruction of assets... hence why individual asset/wealth continues to increase on average over time.


Wrong. Peddle that nonsense all you want, the gross inflation caused by the ludicrous safety of highsec is bad for the game, and bad for new players.

See, newbies income does not increase to keep pace with inflation, especially missions. So as "creation" continues to outpace "destruction" to such an extent, their relative earning and purchasing power continually decreases.

Why do you hate new players?



Quote:
this game would be dead without High-Sec players.


If by that you mean carebears, still wrong. You're vastly over estimating your importance to the game, and you're doing so deliberately in an attempt to stave off much deserved nerfs.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1191 - 2015-06-13 14:22:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Market McSelling Alt
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

This is off topic but has to be responded to. Eve is not about the destruction of assets... hence why individual asset/wealth continues to increase on average over time.


Wrong. Peddle that nonsense all you want, the gross inflation caused by the ludicrous safety of highsec is bad for the game, and bad for new players.

See, newbies income does not increase to keep pace with inflation, especially missions. So as "creation" continues to outpace "destruction" to such an extent, their relative earning and purchasing power continually decreases.

Why do you hate new players?



Quote:
this game would be dead without High-Sec players.


If by that you mean carebears, still wrong. You're vastly over estimating your importance to the game, and you're doing so deliberately in an attempt to stave off much deserved nerfs.



See now you are just fudding... The PVE content of Null sec year to year is equal to that of High-sec even though there is 1/3 the players. If you care about inflation, then you would care about all those red crosses (red chevrons now) killed out there too.

Also, inflation is a myth in this game because of COLLECTION of assets. People horde their assets, horded assets do nothing to increase inflation, which doesn't exist anyways. Eve has been deflationary for a while with only a couple key assets showing inflation.

Mission income is almost split even between bounties and LP... LP is 100% deflationary and an isk sink as it requires already acquired isk to turn into isk received from other players.

Oh and PS... I am a carebear, nullbear, pvp player and many things. Most people in this game don't fall into your cookie cutter idea of good and evil lol

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Pops Tickle
Tickle Industries
#1192 - 2015-06-13 14:23:40 UTC
Simpeltons proving my point.

CCP Rise wrote:

"We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed."

Source
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1193 - 2015-06-13 14:26:17 UTC
Pops Tickle wrote:
Simpeltons proving my point.



Your point was that Devs don't listen to the community. And you are correct. However you fail to understand that they should, or else the player base will continue to unsub.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Pops Tickle
Tickle Industries
#1194 - 2015-06-13 14:27:40 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Pops Tickle wrote:
Simpeltons proving my point.



Your point was that Devs don't listen to the community. And you are correct. However you fail to understand that they should, or else the player base will continue to unsub.

The community. Too vague. You need to specify. Obviously "the community" as a whole has no clue and lacks coherency.

CCP Rise wrote:

"We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed."

Source
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1195 - 2015-06-13 14:28:28 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

See now you are just fudding... Null sec


Those goalposts must be tired.


Quote:
If you care about inflation, then you would care about all those red crosses (red chevrons now) killed out there too.


I have advocated for a redesign of nullsec income for a while now. Liquid isk bounties are bad in every way possible, they need an LP system, and they it three years ago.

That doesn't mean highsec doesn't need nerfed, it does, and badly. You can try and deflect if you want, but don't be so obvious about it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Pops Tickle
Tickle Industries
#1196 - 2015-06-13 14:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Pops Tickle
Actually I should be more specific myself You write "the community", without even realizing that obviously listening to all the different opinions within said community leads nowhere. Obviously you mean "my part of the community", yes, but not expressing what you mean again shows that you should not be part of a serious discussion (which this is not).

But the biggest issue is your inability to be objective. And as such the developers will not listen to you. Most of you are incapable of leading or participating in a serious discussion (again, which this is not). The Lady in the white dress is another good example of a person that should be ignored, because it is damn obvious that for her the whole matter is more personal than anything!

And then there is this constant lack of evidence and data. Lack of honesty. Lack of coherency. Lack of dignity and decency. I can only repeat myself: The devs are doing well not listening to any of you, as you lack the abilities to participate in a serious discussion.

And I will get proven again, by you people, because you are unable to leave out your personal issues. Taking any of this personally is enough evidence that your opinions should be not considered and your words simply ignored. Sadly "the community" seems to be incapable of doing anything for the greater good.

And as such I will simply exit this thread and let the children here keep pretending they matter.

Good night.

CCP Rise wrote:

"We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed."

Source
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1197 - 2015-06-13 14:43:08 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Pops Tickle wrote:
I must say that I am glad the developers do not listen to any of these threads and actually have started figuring out what is true and what isn't. And that is all which matters.


What is true is that EVE would die without highsec PvErs. And not die as in "oh, looks like this is getting empty", but die as in "do you remember your last paychek? Well, it was the last one, truly".


This is a lie (along with being a pitiful "see, I'm important" plea). For this to be true there would have ot be no way to rat, no way to mine, and no way to manufacture in low sec and npc null.

The fact that CONCORD exists (causing people to operate in high sec because it's plum stupid to operate elsewhere) doesn't mean it could not happen elsewhere, and it's funny to see the emotional ego propping some people have to do to make themselves feel important and needed.

The truth is that the game 'needs' none of us as far as in game activity is involved because as long as there are players and space ships, someone will fill the vacuum.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1198 - 2015-06-13 14:45:58 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
I absolutely love the typical and common psychopaths who flocked to the "games defense" by proclaiming eve is a carebear park and ganking should be allowed at all times to all people as soon as someone brings up the attitude and atmosphere of the community.

In all honesty the person making the claim about the community was just proved correct by the premature jump to defend in-game ganking tactics as a response to a general call for community civility. I am pretty sure the community atmosphere in question was not geared towards a specific in-game activity but rather the general aura of hate, snide and rude communication we see on the forums and in various chat channels.

But please, continue the hyperactive crusade to defend something that you all feel is under assault but has little to do with the discussions at hand.

PS. Gankers remind me of the far conservative right bible thumpers from the States. Constantly thinking Christmas and Jesus is under attack over there when in reality they are actually running the country and forcing non-Christians to follow their morals. The perceived attack on Christianity and the perceived attack on pvp are extremely parallel.


This post right here tells you everything about this posters world view. I suspect that a great many of the 'bleeding heart' types that play the game and yet experience all this friction with and against the game would subscribe to the same world view. Mainly because the people who complain about things in a game probably complain about the same nonsense in real life while holding on to the same victim mentality.
Pops Tickle
Tickle Industries
#1199 - 2015-06-13 14:52:37 UTC
Oh and I apologize for putting everyone into the same bucket. Of course there are a few in here who are capable of not twisting reality; not imagining facts; of keeping outside their personal/psychogical issues.

CCP Rise wrote:

"We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed."

Source
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#1200 - 2015-06-13 15:18:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
I absolutely love the typical and common psychopaths who flocked to the "games defense" by proclaiming eve is a carebear park and ganking should be allowed at all times to all people as soon as someone brings up the attitude and atmosphere of the community.

In all honesty the person making the claim about the community was just proved correct by the premature jump to defend in-game ganking tactics as a response to a general call for community civility. I am pretty sure the community atmosphere in question was not geared towards a specific in-game activity but rather the general aura of hate, snide and rude communication we see on the forums and in various chat channels.

But please, continue the hyperactive crusade to defend something that you all feel is under assault but has little to do with the discussions at hand.

PS. Gankers remind me of the far conservative right bible thumpers from the States. Constantly thinking Christmas and Jesus is under attack over there when in reality they are actually running the country and forcing non-Christians to follow their morals. The perceived attack on Christianity and the perceived attack on pvp are extremely parallel.


This post right here tells you everything about this posters world view. I suspect that a great many of the 'bleeding heart' types that play the game and yet experience all this friction with and against the game would subscribe to the same world view. Mainly because the people who complain about things in a game probably complain about the same nonsense in real life while holding on to the same victim mentality.



You are making the giant assumption that I was pro one side and con the other. I didn't say anything about what should be, or if I like what is or isn't. I said you and your friends were making the assumption that "The community is mean" is the same thing as "Gankers are bad"

Again, you just proved my point, acting like a fanatical religious lot with the perceived slight of being diminished in this game/world. Stop proving my points if you don't like what I post. And please don't pretend to know for one second what my personal feelings are on a subject unless I spell them out here for all.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.