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Why do people ***** about Incarna?

Author
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2011-12-03 19:09:43 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Razin wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:

see I wouldn't say say years, since the newest build of CQ runs fine, and looks fine.

A single player environment consisting of one room where nothing happens, that runs at double-digit FPS on top of the line video cards is certainly NOT "fine". And it took years to build. What does that tell you about their multiplayer engine/environments?

MotherMoon wrote:
Releasing a beta prototype build of a single room is insulting. and in no way shows what an engine is able to run on. it was an unfinished piece of ****.

Exactly.


agreed, but pointing out that i get double the fps with this expansion in CQ.

It wasn't ready, is not excuse to blame it for why eve has had feature abandonment for years now. WiS did not hold back work on FW for example.

it just needed to be postposed until it was feature complete. I work in the games industry. some times it sucks that after 2 years all you have a prototype, but that's how it works. Sometimes an investor just has to bite the bullet and give you one more year.

It's also no reason to scrap all the work that was done. The 120 people they fired were basically the WiS team.

Now if Tippa could connect one and two. logic would seem to say that the amount of development resources being used to make FiS now, is the same as when WiS and FiS were being made at the same time.

Making WiS/WoD, Dust514, and eve all at the same time with one game bring in money, was stupid, and dumb. One at a time CCP.

But right now eve doesn't have more devs than ever. In fact dust 514 has MORE devs than ever before, and if anything there are LESS devs now working on eve.

The only point being WiS is not to blame for bad FiS content over the last 3/4 expansions.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#42 - 2011-12-03 19:11:48 UTC
Yeah Shooting in Face featuers are high on thier cooking list now. expect the next eve expansion to be more paper cuts and smaller refinements.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2011-12-03 19:14:46 UTC
Tippia don't ignore the question.

How many devs were making red moon rising. How much content did said devs make?

if the same number of devs are making content now, how does hiring a NEW SEPARATE TEAM of devs, hurt what the original group of 20 can produce.

it's not a dumb question your just blinded to the issues with your tunnel vision.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#44 - 2011-12-03 19:20:36 UTC  |  Edited by: AkJon Ferguson
I can't get over the constant whining I am hearing from paste-eating cowards and fanbois about people like me who are solely responsible for all the good stuff you are enjoying in the latest expansion.

Since you didn't have the balls to stand up to CCP when the summer of rage was going on and were happy to let them continue neglecting EVE, as I said back then, now that we bitter vets have saved hangars, "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very hangar I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way."
Alara IonStorm
#45 - 2011-12-03 19:27:07 UTC
AkJon Ferguson wrote:
as I said back then,

My post in that thread.
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Leans Back, Enjoys Show.

And by God I was right that was damn entertaining.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#46 - 2011-12-03 19:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
MotherMoon wrote:
Tippia don't ignore the question.
Since it is not relevant to the topic, I most certainly will.

Instead, I'm going to ask you this: why can you not conceive of the notion that people look at the numbers — 70 developers for WiS + 20 developers for FiS — and then think to themselves “hey, maybe those 20 could use a bit of help… in fact, why the hell is there only 20 people working on that and nearly four times as many working on Incarna?!”? Why is it so hard for you to believe that people are/were raging about this allocation of resources and that they would have preferred to see more (if not all) of those people woking on FiS?

In short: why are you so absolutely determined that the 70/20 allocation must be seen as given, and that the skew must absolutely not be seen as, oh, 25 people being “stolen” from FiS (giving a 45/45 split instead), thus incurring an opportunity cost in terms of FiS features not being worked on?
Quote:
how does hiring a NEW SEPARATE TEAM of devs, hurt what the original group of 20 can produce.
Ok, so you still haven't understood the concept of opportunity cost. Jeez. Roll

The actual question is: how does hiring a new separate team of devs and not letting them work on FiS hurt the production of FiS features? Well, obviously, it means that FiS is not getting as many resources as it could have been given; fewer FiS features are given dev time than what is possible; an opportunity to work on FiS is missed. We incur a FiS-feature opportunity cost. And that is what people have been bitching about for, oh, the last two years.
yumike
Doomheim
#47 - 2011-12-03 19:27:13 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Tippa that's bs. all of the art is allready done for it.

It's basically a finished feature, it just needs a 1 or 2 months and it would be done the way they promised.

The cost has allready been done, for 3 years. Don't waste the money you spent, release the *****. Without pulling FiS features.


How do you try telling tippia that it's B S, then agree that they wasted 3 years on it ?

"Your right, but your wrong"?

What the.

And tippia is right.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2011-12-03 19:30:08 UTC
AkJon Ferguson wrote:
I can't get over the constant whining I am hearing from paste-eating cowards and fanbois about people like me who are solely responsible for all the good stuff you are enjoying in the latest expansion.

Since you didn't have the balls to stand up to CCP when the summer of rage was going on and were happy to let them continue neglecting EVE, as I said back then, now that we bitter vets have saved hangars, "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very hangar I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way."



BS, i was there in the summer of rage. but for me it was a year before you ever stood up to face CCP.

And this summer was no different. It's not a whine about Wis, it's a whine about releasing unfinished content, feature abandonment, and ignoring the playerbase.

What came out this expansion should of came out years ago. it just took us forcing ccp to see the way they were going was bad and we weren't going to take it.

I am fully in support of this expansion, and the next one going back and finishing unfinished expansions. WiS has to be put on hold because of the non-WiS devs leaving large parts of the game unfinished and neglected.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Psychophantic
#49 - 2011-12-03 19:35:05 UTC
Establishments.

That is all.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#50 - 2011-12-03 19:47:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Walking in Stations biggest hurdels was getting it to work then making it fun.

Well its working for now and getting better.

Now the ultimate question is...

How to make it fun?

This will be by far the hardest feature to impliment in eve is making walking in stations a desirable action to engage in every so often.

Should there be PVP? What type?
Economy Infrastructure Stores stuff to do in stations?
UI interfaces prices profitability?

I have mine on because I do have an easily bored mind which consideres the inquaters TV enough of a distraction while I update my market orders. Beyond that I have no other real reason to be in a station.

Ultimately I would have to call Carbonization of Eve one of the largest undertakings of any mmo I ever heard of. It would be like patching everquest 1 into everquest 2 instead of making it a seperate game. Its also where I suscpect where most of the eve core teams was working on.

The only real resources Walking in station ate from eve core teams was probably the Networking team and Technical Artisans who are better at tweaking shadows and lights and reducing FPS requirements. For the network side I know that the Sol Node is not on the same one as the "terra" (since I dont know the name of it Ill call it that its opposite enough) nodes so conversations must be had between the two in order for it to work better. Which is why TTA (time to action) was so low when Incarna first came out but now TTA is faster than the loading of the envrionment and I hope that TTA will eventually match static/regular hangers.


I do know that FW improvements are on the horizion now, somone has datamined out new navy battleships and battlecruisers (a first?) and there are talks about letting allaicnes finally join up. The FW wars are about to get real serious business soon enough.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2011-12-03 19:48:07 UTC
yumike wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Tippa that's bs. all of the art is allready done for it.

It's basically a finished feature, it just needs a 1 or 2 months and it would be done the way they promised.

The cost has allready been done, for 3 years. Don't waste the money you spent, release the *****. Without pulling FiS features.


How do you try telling tippia that it's B S, then agree that they wasted 3 years on it ?

"Your right, but your wrong"?

What the.

And tippia is right.


1st off I've been posting on the forum for 7 year your alt doesn't shock me.

2nd I'm saying that if they scrap the whole thing now, they WILL HAVE wasted those 3 years. learn to read kthxbye

3rd it's BS that WiS is the reason for feature abandon over the past 3 years. Because lots of other non FiS features have been released that were not WiS.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Razin
The Scope
#52 - 2011-12-03 19:52:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Razin
Nova Fox wrote:
Walking in Stations biggest hurdels was getting it to work then making it fun.

The understatement of this thread.

Nova Fox wrote:
Well its working for now and getting better.
There is no evidence that this is so. All we currently have are single player CQs (that are still in beta state to boot).
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#53 - 2011-12-03 19:56:04 UTC
[
Nova Fox wrote:
Well its working for now and getting better.
There is no evidence that this is so. All we currently have are single player CQs (that are still in beta state to boot).[/quote]

My FPS on my nvidia for instation is now 24 instead 12 fps. So they did something, Also my character looks alot better than he used to thanks to selectable shader options.

Time to action times are cut down on my computer to about 7 seconds almost the same as if I where to dock into hanger view.
Time to load is about 10 seconds much better than the previous 30 second load times.

I dont know why you are still using AMD video cards.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Razin
The Scope
#54 - 2011-12-03 20:06:46 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:

My FPS on my nvidia for instation is now 24 instead 12 fps. So they did something, Also my character looks alot better than he used to thanks to selectable shader options.

Time to action times are cut down on my computer to about 7 seconds almost the same as if I where to dock into hanger view.
Time to load is about 10 seconds much better than the previous 30 second load times.

I dont know why you are still using AMD video cards.

I agree that the singleplayer CQs are getting better both visually and performance wise.

However you misunderstand what WIS is. It is a MUTLIPLAYER avatar-based game that allows inter-player interaction inside the station interiors. Sort of like the 'spaceship game' except inside and with walking chars (sans the shooting at each other, at first). This requires much much more than pretty graphics. And we have absolutely no evidence that any of that even exists.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2011-12-03 20:18:31 UTC
Razin wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:

My FPS on my nvidia for instation is now 24 instead 12 fps. So they did something, Also my character looks alot better than he used to thanks to selectable shader options.

Time to action times are cut down on my computer to about 7 seconds almost the same as if I where to dock into hanger view.
Time to load is about 10 seconds much better than the previous 30 second load times.

I dont know why you are still using AMD video cards.

I agree that the singleplayer CQs are getting better both visually and performance wise.

However you misunderstand what WIS is. It is a MUTLIPLAYER avatar-based game that allows inter-player interaction inside the station interiors. Sort of like the 'spaceship game' except inside and with walking chars (sans the shooting at each other, at first). This requires much much more than pretty graphics. And we have absolutely no evidence that any of that even exists.


well other than fanfest 2008 when a bunch of us got to play it.

seriously, we played it already, 3 years ago. The mind boggles.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#56 - 2011-12-03 20:21:44 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
well other than fanfest 2008 when a bunch of us got to play it.

seriously, we played it already, 3 years ago. The mind boggles.
Nah. What boggles the mind is why they scrapped it and started over…
Razin
The Scope
#57 - 2011-12-03 20:25:19 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Razin wrote:


However you misunderstand what WIS is. It is a MUTLIPLAYER avatar-based game that allows inter-player interaction inside the station interiors. Sort of like the 'spaceship game' except inside and with walking chars (sans the shooting at each other, at first). This requires much much more than pretty graphics. And we have absolutely no evidence that any of that even exists.


well other than fanfest 2008 when a bunch of us got to play it.

Could you describe the multiplayer features of that demo and which of those you had a chance to try?
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2011-12-03 20:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Tippia wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
well other than fanfest 2008 when a bunch of us got to play it.

seriously, we played it already, 3 years ago. The mind boggles.
Nah. What boggles the mind is why they scrapped it and started over…


that's basically what i said.... we really do work on separate wavelengths don't we. When we agree you're still like, Nope, your wrong.


The features I got to try were, seeing multiple avatars, walking *was slooooow, needed more travel options"

the awesome board game with a UI that you could click from any angle. It was amazing. Able to bet ships and isk and contracts.

They even had a captains quarter lol.

and it was awesome. limited, but honestly enough for me if it was the 1st release.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
#59 - 2011-12-03 20:42:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
ccp expansions have always been minimalistic and unfinished. Aprocrypha was the only thing that even seemed to resemble an expansion any other company would have released.

people who blame it on incarna clearly know nothing about ccp.

the bitching may be about opportunity cost or whatever the hell else you wanna call it, but ccp has done this crap from the dawn of time and people are just in denial about it.

Also, the reason you two can't agree on a damn thing is because Huang is tryin to make the greater point, and Tippia is busy back at square one trying to argue little technicalities cause he can't stand losing an argument. You should know by now his personality has always been about winning an argument even at the cost of being right. That's why he comes across as halfways intelligent, he take any losing argument and come out a winner by turning the subject to some mundane detail nobody gives a damn about when everybody else has already moved on.

Later on, of course, he will eventually catch up and agree with what you said, if only to make it look like his path of argument lead to the correct conclusion.

In short, don't feed the Tippia.
Razin
The Scope
#60 - 2011-12-03 20:59:06 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:


The features I got to try were, seeing multiple avatars, walking *was slooooow, needed more travel options"

the awesome board game with a UI that you could click from any angle. It was amazing. Able to bet ships and isk and contracts.

They even had a captains quarter lol.

and it was awesome. limited, but honestly enough for me if it was the 1st release.

How many avatars? Were they other players or NPCs? How could you tell? How was collision avoidance handled? Was there anything besides the board game to interact with? Voice?

Whatever the answers, what we saw on the fanfest videos at the time looked like a mockup demonstration, a very early alpha. The fact that it was scrapped isn't necessarily a bad thing, it may actually mean that that tech was a dead end.