These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Why do people ***** about Incarna?

Author
PirateSarge
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-12-03 16:38:50 UTC
I can't get over the constant whining I was hearing about Incarna that I cannot fathom the facepalms I'm doing. No, the micro-transactions stuff that's been around forever I can understand, but they are not forcing you to buy them.

What I can't comprehend is the bitchiness and whining about the new features of Incarna such as the walk in stations, captains quarters and interactions that I found intriguing. I don't want to be ******* cooped up in my ship all the time even in station. And I always like immersion, as if my character is alive and moving rather than being a static frozen pic in the top left corner of my gaming screen.

I liked the art design, the graphics and construction of the character. A character that makes me feel as if he's really alive and involved in the world of EVE instead of just hold up in a ship. But why is it that people have to complain over simple trivial things like that?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2 - 2011-12-03 16:43:27 UTC
PirateSarge wrote:
I liked the art design, the graphics and construction of the character. A character that makes me feel as if he's really alive and involved in the world of EVE instead of just hold up in a ship. But why is it that people have to complain over simple trivial things like that?
…but then again, that's not what people are complaining about.

It's about the immense opportunity cost of the whole thing.
PirateSarge
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-12-03 16:45:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…but then again, that's not what people are complaining about.

It's about the immense opportunity cost of the whole thing.


Ah. Wait... immense opportunity cost? What do you mean by that?
Morganta
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#4 - 2011-12-03 16:49:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Morganta
actually this is the only thread bitching about incarna on the front page


so the question to you is, why are you dredging this **** up?
Lil Nippy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-12-03 16:50:59 UTC
Well lets see...

- Got rid of station spinning

- Added the worst feature to probably ever be implimented into this game, "station" walking (a 10x10 prison cell with a flat screen)

- A micro transaction store for doll clothes that only you can see...fail

- Dozens of performance issues for laptops and ATI users

- Disresepectful dev blogs and newsletters

- Was hyped up to be an immense, spectacular expansion but added no new content to the game whatsoever outside of the prison cell

Incarna is not really 'over' yet. Incarna could still very well have been the nail in the coffin for EVE. I rarely see more than 35k online when it used to regularly be 40-50K pre Incarna, only time will tell if CCP can bounce back from it.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#6 - 2011-12-03 16:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Its because they have been talking about it for at least 3 years, and when it finally got implemented it didn't include most of what they talked about.

Quote:
Dozens of performance issues for laptops and ATI users


ATI users that aren't used to performance issues are called "First time ATI users".

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-12-03 16:57:18 UTC
not only did it not include everything promised and wanted by the player base.

It killed immersion by having a single faction room.

and it came with a never blogged about MT strategy. They just released it, they didn't think the customer feedback was even an issue. Stupid players shouldn't have a say in how we market MT items in eve, herp derp.

I want walking in stations more than anyone. but incarna was a terribad sub losing failure.

They should of held it back untill it was at least ready to let us visit each other in our CQ, even if pointless, it would be better than a single room.


also once it's done right eve will double in subs. I know way to many people where this is the one thing holding them back.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#8 - 2011-12-03 16:57:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Christine Peeveepeeski
edit * please delete, double post.
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#9 - 2011-12-03 16:58:29 UTC
Personally I feel it was overblown a bit.

Sure CCP miss judged the player base and messed up micro transactions but walking in stations has not been bitched at by most I know in game and that's a fair amount of people across a wide range of player types. Basically most that don't like the idea are also the people that don't play EVE for the actual immersion. They don't play EVE for the setting, they do it because its the ONLY game where power over others is a true in game facet....with that I have no issue. However this group of people seem to be most vocal.

I also feel that they (ccp) let far to much slip in favour of the WIS for too long and in fact said they had not done work on FIS because of incarna. Incarna then shipped with a room........ and a poorly marketed set of cloths you pay for with plex for those that like to wear military gear and look at themselves while not doing anything.

The swing has gone the other way now....... no WIS and all FIS. It would seem measured response just doesn't work in EVE land, the community, CCP and the CSM all seem to have binary responses to everything not allowing for balanced approaches to the gaming world that is EVE.

Let's be fair though, still no other game like it :)

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2011-12-03 16:58:33 UTC
PirateSarge wrote:
Ah. Wait... immense opportunity cost? What do you mean by that?
Opportunity cost.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-12-03 17:01:15 UTC
Tippa that's bs. all of the art is allready done for it.

It's basically a finished feature, it just needs a 1 or 2 months and it would be done the way they promised.

The cost has allready been done, for 3 years. Don't waste the money you spent, release the *****. Without pulling FiS features.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Alara IonStorm
#12 - 2011-12-03 17:05:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
PirateSarge wrote:

Ah. Wait... immense opportunity cost? What do you mean by that?

Crucible was thrown together in a few months. Incursions was Ok. Tyrannis, Dominion and Incarna had very little Content for In-Space Features.

Since the beginning EVE Expansions have been growing and growing better each time. It is what has gotten EVE from an Indy Game to massive Content filled MMO. Around 1000 Missions, Group PVE, around 300 Ships, 7500 Star Systems, Player built Starbases and Outposts and player run Empires. EVE had none of that in the beginning. It has expanded bigger and bigger each year.

Apocrypha came and blew everyone away with Dynamic Group PvE, 2500 New Systems, New Modular Ships, New Missions and tons of Improvements. Then the expansions got worse and worse until Incarna came along and it was just a new Ship Skin, a Minmatar Station Interface and Ok looking Turrets. People were wondering what the hell happened.

The opportunity cost is what EVE would have been if Dominion was the next step above Apocrypha and so on. That combined with people begging for fixes to Blasters, Supercapitals, PoS's, Mining, Low Sec, Faction Warfare and a thousand other things that needed to be looked at or could use an overhaul and were time after time disappointed. CCP said there would be no more Apocrypha's and 18 Months before the game play was looked at in a serious way. Dev's began to shift to CCP's other incomplete titles and it looked more and more like they were abandoning EVE. Leaving it with less resources and not doing upkeep while expecting EVE Fans to pay for there other games. Walking in Stations was even developed to test out World of Darkness tech.

Eventually it just plain boiled over. If they were not going to release new content to keep things interesting and not fix the broken Content people started to wonder if this was worth $180 a year. There was Rage then Unsubs. Now CCP's thrown together Crucible in a couple of weeks as an apology they have said the next Expansion coming will be an Apocrypha.

EVE is back on the road to Expansion.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#13 - 2011-12-03 17:09:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
MotherMoon wrote:
Tippa that's bs. all of the art is allready done for it. […] The cost has allready been done, for 3 years.
Yes, and that's why there's such a high opportunity cost for it — because that was all that they did. And those 3 years include the stuff they supposedly had to start over with from scratch.

That's the cost people are bitching about.
Quote:
Don't waste the money you spent, release the *****. Without pulling FiS features.
…the problem is that last part: it has already happened.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-12-03 17:20:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Tippa that's bs. all of the art is allready done for it. […] The cost has allready been done, for 3 years.
Yes, and that's why there's such a high opportunity cost for it — because that was all that they did. And those 3 years include the stuff they supposedly had to start over with from scratch.

That's the cost people are bitching about.
Quote:
Don't waste the money you spent, release the *****. Without pulling FiS features.
…the problem is that last part: it has already happened.


Tippa I always assumed you were more informed about game development, but apparently the respect i had for you has been misplaced.

That 1 room was not "all they had done" don't make me laugh. it was all that was ready. I was able to rip all of the bars and factional CQs from the sisi build. I posted a thread with the screen shots.

Also at fanfest they showed all of the shaders and tech needed to get it off the ground.

the hardest part of making a game is building a polished 1st level. or prototype. The rest if just building the game world. And even that was, as I stated, allready done. They released something that needed 4-6 months of extra work to have full muliplayer just because... they thought they could get away with it, or something. Read the CEO open letter to the community.

The fact is if you really think that single room was all they had done, you know nothing of game development.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-12-03 17:25:19 UTC
Sovereignty Infrastructure System might not of been the best expansion feature. But to say dominion didn't have many FiS features is BS. It was all in space features, how could there be non- in space features when all there was at the time was the FiS part of eve?

It's just that it was bad unwanted content. they could of made a CRUCIBLE expansion back then, if they had just listen to the CSM and the playerbase.

WiS is NOT the reason the Fis part of eve has been getting worse for years. It's clearly direction. Every expansion before incarna was FiS features, there is no arguing that. They just weren't expansions or features that polished the rest of the game. the issue here is feature abandonment.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Ariel Dawn
les PIEDS dans le plat
#16 - 2011-12-03 17:25:43 UTC
Incarna as initially described (having stores, clubs/bars, reasonably involved interactions) seemed awesome.

Incarna as delivered was a box with nothing inside of it.

If CCP can deliver it's first vision at some point it would likely be wildly successful.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-12-03 17:33:09 UTC
Ariel Dawn wrote:
Incarna as initially described (having stores, clubs/bars, reasonably involved interactions) seemed awesome.

Incarna as delivered was a box with nothing inside of it.

If CCP can deliver it's first vision at some point it would likely be wildly successful.


It's almost like CCP thought it was the NeX store that was all they needed to add to make it successful. The content isn't important, just give them something to throw money into because gamers want that nowadays. How cares if it's a box with no features.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#18 - 2011-12-03 17:41:07 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
That 1 room was not "all they had done" don't make me laugh.
Ok, you need to go back and read what I actually wrote this whole time, because now you're arguing things that have never been said.

So, let's repeat:

What people are bitching about is the opportunity cost of WiS: a flubbed released of a consistently poorly handled development of a feature with no gameplay attached to it, which robbed the game of precious development resources that could instead/also have gone towards the things we've seen in this patch and in pre-tyrannis patches. All they did in that time was Incarna — and it showed — and the end result (even including the stuff that isn't ready for release) was not worth the opportunity cost of all the other features and functionality that were left by the wayside during all that time.
Quote:
The fact is if you really think that single room was all they had done, you know nothing of game development.
No. The fact is that you haven't read what I've written or you've misunderstood what the opportunity cost is.
Quote:
WiS is NOT the reason the Fis part of eve has been getting worse for years.
WiS is the reason the FiS part of EVE did not get the attention it needed to not go stale. This was a direct and express choice by CCP: they focused on one thing at the cost of everything else. The opportunity of WiS came at the cost of the (many) opportunities of FiS. It is this opportunity cost that people are complaining about.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-12-03 17:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Tippia wrote:
WiS is the reason the FiS part of EVE did not get the attention it needed to not go stale. This was a direct and express choice by CCP: they focused on one thing at the cost of everything else. The opportunity of WiS came at the cost of the (many) opportunities of FiS. It is this opportunity cost that people are complaining about.



LolLolLolLolLolLolLol


RIIIIIGHT

which is why they were able to make...

a brand new Sov system

all faction ships being rebalanced form the ground up

New contracts UI

New planet graphics

New turrets

fleet finder

Epic arcs

planetary interaction

Team BFF's Little Things

Visible Nullsec Truesec

Carbon IO and carbon UI

Server-side Ship Fittings

Incursions

NPC AI buff

death to learning skills

fighter bombers

as well as a few new ships


So lets see, ignoring incarna the 3 expansions before that were...


1.Mine planets expansion
2.Pvp Sov expansion
3.PvE fight dynamic Npcs expansion


any of those 3 could of been CRUCIBLE, crucible only took them 4-6 weeks after all. It was barely any work.

If you someone think that WiS being put on hold is what allowed them to basically pick a ton of low hanging fruit that players had been yelling at them to pick for years, and only took them 4 weeks to finish was because of WiD not being worked on. your nuts. You've literally been forum whoring so long, your mind has lost it.




I'm not complaining mind you this was the ebst expansion in a long time. But I was expected it eyars ago. They just kept getting new big feature ideas for the past 2 years and now actully fixing other released features.

You can argue all day and night about how you don't think the reason eve went downhill was due to feature abandonment, and was some who linked to WiS taking away the chance of making an expansion like CRUCIBLE back in the day.


But the fact is, last expansion, incarna, had 4 times as many people working solely on in space features than when red moon rising came out. And that's a god damn fact. So I will up hold my point. CCP direction, and not Wis, were the reason for ****** expansions that adding nothing noteworthy to the game. end of story.


Feature abandonment

Bad direction

FFFFFnnnnnn

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#20 - 2011-12-03 17:49:50 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
RIIIIIGHT
If not the opportunity cost, what do you think the bitching is all about?
123Next pageLast page