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[New structures] Market Hubs and Drilling Platforms

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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#221 - 2015-06-18 09:42:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Wylde Kardde wrote:
If anyone here has seen Star Trek (2009 movie) they used a laser drill platform suspended from a ship into a planets atmosphere to cut through the surface. If we're talking about moons than we won't need the ship or a counterbalance due to zero gravity so picture this platform w/o a tether but a connected power plant and silos.

http://www.benjaminbloodworth.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/romulandrill.jpg

http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content09/romulan-flame-jet-drill.jpg

With this blasting a debris plume into space the actual (player) mining would take place in a ring around the drill where the rocks lose outward momentum and sit appearing like a typical belt except in a full ring instead of a crescent.

http://www.space.com/images/i/000/017/536/i02/moon-asteroid-impact-1600.jpg?1337288780

I really like the idea. As long as CCP are intending to remake moon mining into activity that can be freely interacted with on a personal level. I mean, this means it will require people to actively mine stuff, protect such mining nodes. It will make attacks on miners potentially more impactful, it will allow for ninja mining.

Sounds good, but there are things to consider.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Not that Forumguy
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#222 - 2015-07-03 15:24:38 UTC
I am very interested in being able to build a trade outpost / market building, the way i would prefer it to work it that you build one and other people pay a docking fee to buy and sell items at the structure with mooring, other then that it would be free for anyone to use. maybe people could also flag urgent items, also anyone would be able to use the structure no password etc.
E1ev1n
Big Sister Exploration
#223 - 2015-07-05 14:46:14 UTC
To me a market Hub sounds like a shopping mall. Would we be able to say set up market stalls based on type groups of items or whomever is selling them as a way to facilitate branding of in game assets and then planting billboard saying things like "Get your big Gulp at 7-11 today" and have a market stall called 7-11?

In conjunction with the first question asked, are we going to be able to actually leave our quarters, interact with others and move about in these social areas, and say have a corporate meeting in say a board room or another meeting place to press flesh so to speak?
Hanna Monntanna
Sisters of Steel
Moist.
#224 - 2015-07-06 07:24:44 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Haters GonnaHate wrote:
please open moon mining up to the masses as a higher tier PI. the vast majority of moon goo is handled by very few people at the top of alliance leadership at the expense of its members. Not only are these profits often pocketed by these individuals but some even go as far as to engage in RMT. Moon goo production should be accessible to any and all that wish to take the time to engage in it.


It already is, put up a POS on a moon, start mining, run your own reactions or sell raw.
Of course you also need to be able to defend it should it be a particularly valuable moon, which is nobody elses fault but your own if you cant manage that for biting off more than you could chew.

Besides why should they punish players who took that step, made the investment, and have been defending towers and then taking the profits? I see no logical reason for that what-so-ever.


Sorry, but I think the exclusive moon mining should come to an end. And the reason is, that new players have no practical chance to find a free moon with any valuable material. Even in renting space, alliances reserve the R64 and R32 moons for themselves.
The second reason is, that moons are so large celestials, there is no logic behind it, to allow only one POS.
I even go farther: moon goo deposits should deplete after some time. Maybe the total return on invest could be like a factor of five, but
moon harvester should not stay ISK-printing machines.
Felix Judge
Regnum Ludorum
#225 - 2015-07-07 13:24:56 UTC
Hanna Monntanna wrote:
Sorry, but I think the exclusive moon mining should come to an end. And the reason is, that new players have no practical chance to find a free moon with any valuable material. Even in renting space, alliances reserve the R64 and R32 moons for themselves.
The second reason is, that moons are so large celestials, there is no logic behind it, to allow only one POS.
I even go farther: moon goo deposits should deplete after some time. Maybe the total return on invest could be like a factor of five, but
moon harvester should not stay ISK-printing machines.

Harvesting valuable moons is end-game content. (Which I unfortunately do not partake in either, but sure wish...) New players have about the same chance in participiating as a Lvl-10-Famous-Fantasy-MMORPG-character has in participating in a heroic boss raid. And that sounds ok to me.

Also, being able to harvest those moons comes with an enormous effort - not so much in setting up the POS and logistics, but in maintaining the ability to defend it. The ISK-printing is the reward for that.
Actually, anybody CAN harvest those moons - just go ahead and organize a strong enough group that is capable, and swiftly reap your reward.P

About the depletion, I think so too. With it, moon prospecting would be another promising career.
Dale Thellere
Suddenly taken over
#226 - 2015-07-13 19:00:12 UTC
I am guessing this particular structure fits along with this blog: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/shake-my-citadel/

Market hubs will probably be the best place to start with these structures. Not only do you still get to go forward with the overhaul of the existing POS structure mechanics, you get to do it in a way that isn't going to affect open space in a way the others describe that could be potentially unbalancing.

I am hoping a time frame will be given soon on this for when it will hit singularity.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#227 - 2015-07-15 12:50:23 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Heres a Question I haven't seen anyone ask yet

How will mobile siphon units adapt to the new structures?

If your drilling platform is an active process then siphons become useless since everyone will see you place it, but if its not, how do we determine what it can harvest?

Will it steal during the reprocessing or compressing process? Will they reserve some of the mined materials directly?



Hahaha, you work under the presumption that siphons are worth using. People are fetching the API data on whether the array is full enough, porting it to an app, which sends a push notification to ytheir mobile phone alerting them within minutes of a siphon stealing materials out of the bin. So when the API betrays the siphon, the owner logs in, hoofs it over in a ceptor or Victorieux Luxury Yacht, and uses a POS gun to scrape the siphon off.

The best thing to do is remove siphons from the game, they are a joke.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Miss Iniquitous
Razing Demolitions
#228 - 2015-07-23 14:03:05 UTC
This will be a very interesting change with the drama that might ensue with moons.

Some concerns I have are;

Moon Mining - Many people that do moon mining on low value moons operate on very small margins in a very competitive market. Due to the nature of moon mining and reaction mechanics they are usually producing in bulk. My point is that it may be passive but there is a lot of brain work that goes in to managing these chains. From logistics and maths, calculating your profits and losses. Not to mention the risks these people take when making large investments in structures that fit into their POS industry set up. (To a huge alliance or a trillionaire player these risks may be nothing, or a worthy sacrifice, but not to the small guys).

It takes a lot of investment, patience and knowledge to get started in this industry which in my opinion has a good risk/reward ratio in its current form. I would not like to see this risk/reward skewed. From the point of view of a small industry corporation.

The idea some have shared above regarding sharing one moon's abundant minerals across multiple drilling platforms or (multiple poses) competing for the one resource is worrying. As there would be no margin what so ever on certain moons.

However maybe over time and after the markets get over the change it would equal out and the value of things would adapt to allow room for competition on such resources.

I admit the idea of putting another industry corporation out of business by setting up loads of drilling platforms leeching the moons they are using rendering theirs useless by being turned into a ISK sink hole is appealing but I worry that this would mainly benefit ISK rich individuals and big Alliances.

The idea of fuel not being required blows my mind, I can't begin to imagine how the market would be affected.

Questions I'd love answers to;

- What steps will CCP take to minimize any negative impact these changes may have on EVE's Markets?
- Are CCP considering replacing active POS and all their structures with the new structures and fittings?
To clarify the second question; If at the time these changes are rolled out. Will my current anchored and online POS be replaced (in space) with the new structures and fittings required to continue operating as it was before the change?
If not - does this mean I will have to personally un-anchor all my POS structures and then have to start all over again with anchoring and fitting of the new POS structures and fitting?

Miss Iniquitious
Lu Ziffer
Balanced Unity
Goonswarm Federation
#229 - 2015-07-25 22:43:49 UTC
The Drilling Platforms should not drill anything better call them Processing Plattforms.

What should they do what are there limits?
-process ressources
-give information on potential mining sites
-have a limited processing capability


I realy think this should only be introduced with a mayor overhaul to what is today moonmining, PI and asteroid mining.
I know it is a huge proposal and a lot will not like it basic ideas are
-All ressources can be found everywhere
-- no differance between highsec and 0.0
--asteroids have todays moonminerals, PI and asteroid minerals in them

-Introduce Mining capitals (yes you hate them)
--they are realy expensive somewhere 5-50bil ISK
--they can "land" on moons and harvest them
--they can brakeup huge asteroids to make them more accesiable.
--moons have todays moonminerals, PI and asteroid minerals in them just a lot more then asteroids.
--to balance that subcapital mining ships can target what they want to mine capitals just take it all
--they are a huge target to destroy an alliance mineral supply.


-Asteroids get a real world ressource combination
--that means 95% are tritanium, pyrite, atmospheric gases, r8 moonmins and wortless PI stuff.
--this creates a serious drawback for the mining capitals as they have to deal with 95% low value high volume resources.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#230 - 2015-07-30 01:45:02 UTC
Rorquals and orcas generally just sit at a pos giving out mining fleet bonuses at the moment. Basically, people use an alt to provide a function that could be given to a structure. How about having one of the upgrade options for a mining platform be mining boosts to allied ships in system? Then the rorq and orca can be re-purposed for sexy new tasks *cough* capital mining ship *cough*.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Anthar Thebess
#231 - 2015-07-31 11:19:47 UTC
Make them similar to current planetary operations , where you need to shift the mining headers around the planet.
I don't state - make them available to every one , just make them requiring more active operation.

Next thing , interesting this is not limiting the output form the single platform but from the moon.

So you can have 1 mining platform that mine up to 500 of different minerals /h , or 5 mining 100 minerals /h

Why?
More player to player interaction Roll
- more drama
- more things to contest , and ways to contest

Think about creating way to manage PI and similar moon mining operation by some phone app .

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Not that Forumguy
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#232 - 2015-08-03 21:26:30 UTC
Any thoughts Definitely would like two structures, one that i can build for pvp that can defend itself and has an effect on enemies in a system (to your alliance / corp) such as negative bounty payment etc that you could build offensively in their system or defensively in your system.

And a trade building where anyone can pay a docking fee to trade items.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#233 - 2015-08-06 11:08:22 UTC  |  Edited by: DrysonBennington
What about Hubs and Drilling Platforms that could be configured to operate similar to how the T3 Destroyers operate?

For Drilling Platforms You could select Moon Mining, Gas Harvesting, Ice Harvesting or Asteroid Harvesting each having its own configure sequence like the T3 Destroyers have that would take ten minutes to configure between each configuration.

Each Platform would have Mining Configuration and Defensive Configuration with a few sub category selections such as Mining Drone Bonuses, Cycle Time Reduction, Strip Mining Laser Range and Ore Yield bonuses that could be selected, Two of the four bonuses could be selected with the time between each bonus selection taking five minutes to complete. For Defensive Configuration All resistances of the Platform would see an increase of 35% as well as Combat Drone bonuses of increased velocity, resistances and optimal range increase just like Mining Configuration the Combat Drone bonuses could be selected and would take a minute to configure between each configuration.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#234 - 2015-08-06 11:33:42 UTC
Make the rorqual the drilling platform, engaging the industrial core transforms the ship much like marauders in bastion, making it static for the duration of it's drilling platform duties. When in 'ship' form the only thing it can do is move, all offensive and industrial modules are offline.
Aischa Montagne
Blut-Klauen-Clan
#235 - 2015-08-16 22:22:15 UTC
One Service Idea for Market Hubs:
Agent Offices: They will provide some space for NPC Agents.
Which Agents move into the Office depends on the Structure Owner Standings. The better the Standing the more likely a Agent from that corp will come and offer Missions. The more an Agent is used by the players the more influence it gets within the NPC Corp and rise in level.
Or the Owner can Hire Agents from a NPC Corp in Order to Populate he office.

Down the road there could come some Player driven Agents. So Player can set up missions for other players.
This is of course only a crazy addition.
Davis TetrisKing
The Vendunari
End of Life
#236 - 2015-08-20 09:00:48 UTC
This goes for any of the new structures, but I'm curious to see if there have been any thoughts on restrictions the number of these things that can be in each system.

Current POS mechanics restrict it to one per moon, which drives competition (limited space/resources), provides vast differences between systems (some have lots of moons, some only a few) and somewhat restricts the clutter.

Looking at the proposed mechanics there is nothing stopping the rampant proliferation of these in space. I can see there being 100s of them in Jita and never being able to navigate my scanning window again.

Given there are different classes it could be possible to have varying restrictions, eg mediums at moons, large at planets and XL at sun (or just 1 per system).

I think competition for real estate is healthy for the game. I really don't want to see 100s of Mediums just floating around abandoned everywhere because people just put them up for something to do and noone has any real reason to take them out.
Aischa Montagne
Blut-Klauen-Clan
#237 - 2015-08-24 14:48:46 UTC
Davis TetrisKing wrote:
This goes for any of the new structures, but I'm curious to see if there have been any thoughts on restrictions the number of these things that can be in each system.

Current POS mechanics restrict it to one per moon, which drives competition (limited space/resources), provides vast differences between systems (some have lots of moons, some only a few) and somewhat restricts the clutter.

Looking at the proposed mechanics there is nothing stopping the rampant proliferation of these in space. I can see there being 100s of them in Jita and never being able to navigate my scanning window again.

Given there are different classes it could be possible to have varying restrictions, eg mediums at moons, large at planets and XL at sun (or just 1 per system).

I think competition for real estate is healthy for the game. I really don't want to see 100s of Mediums just floating around abandoned everywhere because people just put them up for something to do and noone has any real reason to take them out.


I think I read somewhere that soft restrictions are preferred. So you could end up with a fee per month your Space Station costs.
In Jita you pay an horrible ammount. On System XYZ it is quite Cheap.
That could increase competition because a company has a benefit if she kicks your Station. At planet Obstacles it is well only interesting if someone wants something.

However it would be cool if some soft factor like system Population would parameterized the cost per system. In a unhabitant System Cost rise quickly, while habitat Systems can run more Stations. Maybe some Way for people to influence System Population would be supercool too.
Maybe there could be Agent Mission to transport people or there could be a growth formula, that increases when certain things are delivered like food...
Giving some Ressourcen in the game reason.
Harry Saq
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#238 - 2015-09-01 03:11:05 UTC
Hanna Monntanna wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Haters GonnaHate wrote:
please open moon mining up to the masses as a higher tier PI. the vast majority of moon goo is handled by very few people at the top of alliance leadership at the expense of its members. Not only are these profits often pocketed by these individuals but some even go as far as to engage in RMT. Moon goo production should be accessible to any and all that wish to take the time to engage in it.


It already is, put up a POS on a moon, start mining, run your own reactions or sell raw.
Of course you also need to be able to defend it should it be a particularly valuable moon, which is nobody elses fault but your own if you cant manage that for biting off more than you could chew.

Besides why should they punish players who took that step, made the investment, and have been defending towers and then taking the profits? I see no logical reason for that what-so-ever.


Sorry, but I think the exclusive moon mining should come to an end. And the reason is, that new players have no practical chance to find a free moon with any valuable material. Even in renting space, alliances reserve the R64 and R32 moons for themselves.
The second reason is, that moons are so large celestials, there is no logic behind it, to allow only one POS.
I even go farther: moon goo deposits should deplete after some time. Maybe the total return on invest could be like a factor of five, but
moon harvester should not stay ISK-printing machines.

Couldn't agree more! Make moon mining an active task where sov makes it profitable. Get rid of this stupid rarity passive income islands of profitability, and redistribute randomly, or atleast where the drilling platform can be upgraded to best find stuff you are interested in.
DB Jones
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#239 - 2015-09-05 06:42:48 UTC
Enta en Bauldry wrote:
Just want to note that a functioning market structure that can be configured for corp/alliance only AND works in W-Space would get rid of a major headache for me and quite a few people I fly with.

How it's to be implemented I don't know but as long as you can do something along the lines of;

Buy Trimark Armor Pump II in Jita
Bring it into JXXXXXX system, drop it into market structure (or something like a PHA?)
Place an order for it in system, only visible to corp (perhaps even specific title!)
Different player buys item and takes it out of the structure, fits it to their ship

I'm looking forward to the first public drafts.


Market orders visible only to X seems like a bad idea. There's already contracts serving this purpose which can be made available to corps, alliances and players individually, and with the new structures this will also be possible in j-space, right?.
By making a market order only visible to corp you take away the "market PvP" aspect, which isn't awesome at all.
Anthar Thebess
#240 - 2015-09-09 08:25:43 UTC
Another idea.
Make drilling platforms big launchpads of mining vessels.
Drilling platform , depending from size, can store up to 50 mining vessels that are replenished by players.
( let say building each cost 100k )

Each hour mining platform send 1 of them to defined moon to mine all minerals located there , and can receive back one sent hour ago hauling back minerals.

Now the fun part , players cannot affect the newly sent mining barge, but the returning barge can be interdicted and destroyed.
To simplify , after getting out of the moon , mining barge recharge capacitor on the moon orbit for 10 minutes.

This way we give totally new system , targets to shoot ( and hunt), and new reason for conflict ( if 10 players want to mine a r64 moon , they will get 1/10 of minerals located on moon).

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