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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[New structures] Market Hubs and Drilling Platforms

First post First post
Author
Somatic Neuron
Masterwork Productions Inc
#61 - 2015-03-23 21:53:07 UTC
As for market hubs, I am assuming that we can finally limit access to said hub based on standings? So, hostile XYZ cannot interact with my market for my corp unless I allow him to explicitly?
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
#62 - 2015-03-23 22:06:04 UTC
===Market hubs===

OPTIONS.

Maybe the default is homogenous, with trade/office/clones/insurance/customisation all provided at some level. Perhaps smaller structures have less immediate access to everything, instead with some built in access.

But then the fitting/upgrading comes into play.

Basic upgrades would hopefully come with little cost other than the slots or whatever they fit into.

More impressive upgrades may come at significant fitting cost, or even at the detriment of other services, making them less attractive or entirely unavailable.

- Trading could see an increase in the maximum amount of orders a player could list at that structure, adjustments in terms of tax (basic access should see higher taxes than normal, as the benefit is the utility of having the market wherever it's been placed) and allow for increased ranges of influence. Higher upgrades could allow for the owner to collect more of the taxes through normal trade, or to allow for increased (possible trans-regional) visibility. Debuffs may include higher taxes, massively reduced number of listings per player or perhaps even reduced visibility (seen from upto x jumps away or only in constellation, not region).

- Offices could increase or decrease in number, cost and utility provided as per upgrades. Not a whole lot of flexibility in these.

- Cloning is entirely dependent on what happens to it. I cannot comment on this at the time.

- Insurance depends on what is implied here - NPC or player insurance. At this point I cannot comment.

- Customisation could provide the option for players to apply ship skins that are owned and rented/offered on standings by the station or module they're at. The customisation upgrades could allow players to take on skins they don't normally have access to, which would persist until removed elsewhere.

In all cases, increases to the utility and capability of a section should come at limited cost to others, but extensive upgrades (ie specialising) would mean the others would suffer. OPTIONS, CHOICES, that kind of thing.

==Harvesting==

Oh MY.

In this area, I'd consider MANY things to be on the table.

There's options for structures that do boosting of mining capabilities of ships in system, or platforms that mine autonomously. There's room for perhaps supplying some industrial depot with ships such as ventures that can mine automatically (at a reduced rate) for the individual and for the group. Such ships could be spawned into anomalies, signatures or just in space to be scanned down allowing for interdiction on a smaller scale that a siege.

Scale and autonomy I feel are the biggest ones here. Options that allow players to go off and do other things (like moon mining does, or PI does) rather than actively not play the game (asteroid mining and netflix). Being able to scale up individual platforms with upgrades, supplies and perhaps skills could lead to a new means of industrial might, and give many smaller groups or players that feeling of an empire of many. After all, a capsuleer's pocket should be able to fund entire colonies of humans to work in various ways for them!

I'm imagining dragging fitted ships into a "Fleet composition" window at a platform, such as perhaps an orca, 5 covetors and 2 falcons. With some basic AI options (Always flee, flee if attacked, never flee) selected per ship, the 'fleet' could spawn as a cosmic signature to go about business, and be an interesting means of PvP. In the illustrated fleet, the Orca and covetors could be set to always flee if someone warps in, but the falcons might be set to flee if damaged, meaning they'll try to jam first (freeing the barges hopefully) before then bailing when the enemy targets them. Obviously no AI will be truly clever, but using existing rat AI with certain checks (such as what range a ship can operate at or is it being locked) should be sufficient.

Content where a player's job is to do nothing but sit and watch the almost unchanging scene (mining) should be done away with, and these platforms can be the answer to that!

==Post Harvesting==

See the trade hub section, but apply the concept to this area. Choice, adaptation, cost benefit, specialisation etc.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#63 - 2015-03-23 22:15:18 UTC
Samsara Toldya wrote:
Market Hub...

Jita might stay "no structures allowed!", but a ranged buy-order (2 jumps) placed in Jita with 788 playerdriven market hubs in Perimeter and another 531 in New Caldari might be annoying as hell if you have to collect what you bought in every single market hub.

Will there be hard limits like "1 market hub per system"?

EDIT:
As they'll replace POCO and there won't be a anchoring spot needed: multiple POCO for a single planet possible?


The impression that I'm getting here is that they'll be a freaking huge investment to build. not quite as much as an outpost proper, but still enormous.
A'Tolkar
Carlson's Raiders
#64 - 2015-03-23 22:25:25 UTC
Will there be a mechanic to move these new structures from place to place, even from one solar system to another? Part of the nice part about getting rid of standings requirements was that one could relocate a POS based on system indices, etc. I don't see me repackaging a large structure that is 40km in size. However it seems implied that the drilling platform structure will be moving from place to place. How will this be accomplished with these, as well as all other, structures?
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#65 - 2015-03-23 22:25:51 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
How will moon mining work?

Will there still only be one drilling platform per moon, or can multiple structures compete with each other for the limited hourly resource allotment?

I really like the latter.


I hope for the latter as Moon Mining and reactions now are stupid simple once you made your spreadsheets work, making it more granular would separate the two processes more (you can't set up a simple reaction chain in the same drilling structure when you only get 33 Raw Materials per hour).
Can't wait for the drama R64s can provide.


I would love it to see the taxation of the market hubs go into the coffers of the controlling corporation instead of the gaping maw that is Concord.

The Interbus options are nice too, but they should be shootable without a concord response and only grant a proper faction response. (Lowering Interbus standings)

I like the new Mining possibilities, but they should not cause an extra influx of minerals in the system, just change the way we extract ore from asteroids and other assorted rocks. We've seen what happened with Drone Poo a couple of years ago.

The most amazing thing would be to allow alliances to Hire Agents for Missions in SOV nullsec, as it would increase the amount of people that can live in a system. You can even let them give Alliance LP for completing missions, which can be spend in the Market Hub for LP prices the alliance sets.

Market hubs would have to be enabled as a destination too, else picking up items in a shithole in deepspace will be a nightmare.

Baddest poster ever

Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#66 - 2015-03-23 23:22:34 UTC
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#67 - 2015-03-23 23:33:51 UTC
Drilling Platform


Should be a thing you can put anywhere in system. It then sends out ships of different types to extract resources from things. So you can upgrade your platform for asteroids , ice , moons , gas , comets , anomalies & etc. When the NPC ships are traveling too and fro they should be vulnerable to attack. When they are extracting or moored at the drilling platform they should be immune.

This gives players lots of choices when utilizing drilling platforms. It also creates counterplay and more small gang objectives (hitting the npc ships). When the NPC ships die they are gone till the player replaces the ships. So like mining frigs etc all the way up too Hulks. NPC's shouldn't be as efficient as actual players. So if a player extracts 100 units in X time a NPC would logically extract 50-60 units in X time.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny

Phoenix Jones
The Markoni Dragons
#68 - 2015-03-23 23:42:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Drilling Platform


Should be a thing you can put anywhere in system. It then sends out ships of different types to extract resources from things. So you can upgrade your platform for asteroids , ice , moons , gas , comets , anomalies & etc. When the NPC ships are traveling too and fro they should be vulnerable to attack. When they are extracting or moored at the drilling platform they should be immune.

This gives players lots of choices when utilizing drilling platforms. It also creates counterplay and more small gang objectives (hitting the npc ships). When the NPC ships die they are gone till the player replaces the ships. So like mining frigs etc all the way up too Hulks. NPC's shouldn't be as efficient as actual players. So if a player extracts 100 units in X time a NPC would logically extract 50-60 units in X time.



It's disruption but not pvp (you are shooting red crosses not players). Also by doing npc deployment scavengers would replace the need for any type of mining ship or player. You cannot replace the entire backbone of Eve (your mining fleets) with this thing.

Yaay!!!!

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2015-03-24 04:25:19 UTC
Drilling platform has a lot of potential.

BUT

I will not be supporting it if it is a passive thing. 'insert structure, get isk' If it is something that creates a new belt, new mining opportunities, something that gets more pilots out into space? Great. If it is something only the richest can afford to place deep in their own space and then reap benefits for? Hell no.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#70 - 2015-03-24 04:30:08 UTC
It is PvP...just not very fun or engaging PvP.

Why not do this exact same thing between actual players rather than sanctioning afk mine bots?

These mining bots will be operating 23.5 hours a day, 7 days a week and the amount of times they actually get disrupted by actual players who can be bothered to shoot crosses will be minimal.



and how come PI will be a market hub thing rather than a drilling platform thing?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#71 - 2015-03-24 04:33:34 UTC
I'd rather see moonmining moved from passive to active in the new system, which will be more suited for local production..
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#72 - 2015-03-24 05:38:44 UTC
rather then having ncps be spawned to haul even just small stuff for you the contract system should be reworked to a much more accessible and customizable system where everyone docked at a station takes a glimpse at to see if there is some hauling to do that happens to be on my way, fits my wallet and cargo space.

*oh someone wants something to be hauled from jita to ami? well that fits nicely into my route to antem, I have the cargo space too and enough money for the escrow, easy 2mil!

that all just behind one click should be the goal.

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

bp920091
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2015-03-24 06:47:00 UTC  |  Edited by: bp920091
Wulfy Johnson wrote:
I'd rather see moonmining moved from passive to active in the new system, which will be more suited for local production..


I think a semi-active/passive system would work best, retaining the current capacities of moonmining, but giving an additional source of income for people, and freeing up the supply on some of the higher value moongoos.

Everyone likes to say that active moon mining will take over the supply, but lets be frank, it wont.

Oh sure, it'll take over R64 and R32 mining, and a couple of R16s, maybe. But it will NOT take over R4-16 Moon Mining. There's no way that you'll convince someone to mine atmospheric gases, when they could make MUCH more income from doing that by mining veldspar in a poorly fit cruiser (8 million isk a MONTH, at 100 units/hr, for those of you who dont know how low cost it is).

You'd need to massive revamp the entire t2 production chain if you tossed out passive moon mining, as the sheer demand for materials would make it impossible for there to be a decent supply of them. Unless of course, you preferred your T2 mods to cost 10-20x what they do now, as that'd be what the end result of bringing the R4-8 moongoo costs up to R32 level (what people would probably be willing to actively mine them for).
per
Terpene Conglomerate
Two Maidens One Chalice
#74 - 2015-03-24 10:39:30 UTC
Kym Sorenson wrote:
One of the single biggest questions I'm sure a lot of people have is, will there be a fundamental change in how "moon mats" are extracted? Will they continue to be only at moons, or is there going to be a total overhaul of raw t2 mats with these "anchorable anywhere" drilling platforms? That seems to be the fundamental place to start this discussion.



this and this again, we need to know answer to this for sure

...small gangs should be able to disrupt big alliances moon mining
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#75 - 2015-03-24 11:20:22 UTC
I'd like to see things like moon materials available from more than one mechanism. Lower yield passive income from high value platforms combined with higher yeild active mining from fast moving comets. This would give the chance for those willing to risk the ships to go grab good chunks of moon goodies but with increased risk. The solo/small aliances would also get a chance to grab some nice goodies and it would introduce some kind of balance between active/passive income and risk/reward.
Anthar Thebess
#76 - 2015-03-24 11:36:25 UTC
Allow players to drop mining platforms that will slowly chew a system belt they are deployed on.
On very slow , slow rate - let say 3 days to complete usual system belt in null sec.
During this time you need to defend this structure both from NPC and player attacks.

This will only work when you have 23/7 coverage.

Yes players will drop this on all belts in a system , but again this will be grate place for spawning small gang warfare, and good RESOURCE income for alliances.
Alliances instead of isk for ships could provide then T1 Hulls as SRP.

Vixel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#77 - 2015-03-24 12:23:57 UTC
I'd like to see these new structures finally fix the problem this game has had for a long time.

TECH II PRODUCTION and MOON GOO...

Something needs to be done about t2 production
A Redistribution of Moon Goo.

Make moon goo the holy grail of industrial production. Spread it out evenly across the universe. Make r64 goo 2x as rare as it is now, and then spread it RANDOMLY and EVENLY throughout the game and allow that same proliferation to occur in wormhole space (will solve the rarity issue)

Allow control over a NETWORK of these structures to manage harvesting and collection of all materials available in space.

I'd like to see resource harvesting become the BALANCED and pyramidal isk faucet it is supposed to be instead of the UNBALANCED and BROKEN faucet it is now. Proportionally, something is just straight up off.

These structures need to have a VISUAL interface for their operation. The industry tab is so much better now with the visual changes and anything that takes all of the menus and submenus in this game towards that direction is a good thing.

LVXE

zar dada
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
#78 - 2015-03-24 12:32:52 UTC
Can I setup Clones and Markets in wspace?

If we get markets and personal storage in station in wspace, but the structure is owned /anchored by a corporation, will directors/CEO have total access to that storage? And the ability to cancel/claim market orders/contracts by other players at that station?
Hafwolf
Krieg 7th Brigade
#79 - 2015-03-24 12:49:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Hafwolf
Here is an idea a player can use the Entosis Link to control the drilling platform for mining. Say the player wants to setup the Drilling platform next to an asteroid belt they can loose a harvester on there mining ship to control a fleet of drones or mining barge or frigates to mine the asteroids, ice, or gas. The risk for the miner is they loose a high slot and they cannot warp away if gankers show up. The reward is they could loose one high slot to be able to add another mining barge they could control so instead of 1 ship they could control 2.


The Entosis link can be used for moving the structure as well. It would give better game play if the owners of the items could move the market or drilling platform without having to destroy the rigs by repackaging the structure's. Some time of in system warp of movement for the drilling platform. Both could be jumped to new systems give it a 5 ly range. No pilots can be docked and it cannot be in reinforced mode. The owner activates the Entosis link in the new system structure jumps. Then have a 48 hour cool down for system to system jumps. In system have like a 12 hour cool down.

And market hubs should not be restricted on sec status but maybe that they cannot be anchored or jumped to a system with an npc station. I think competition between player market hubs would be cool. It would create a hole new dynamic for marketing. Corp A puts up one and Corp B puts up one the winner would basically be the one that survives and actually makes money. War dec's and also market competition who can supply the market to get people buying as well as selling at their hub.
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#80 - 2015-03-24 14:01:54 UTC
If players will be able park the new structures wherever they want, they'd likely want to plant them in or very near (on grid) asteroid fields. The new XL structures are supposed to be 100km across, which is about twice the size of a big asteroid field. Asteroid fields would need to be much bigger or this would be and look silly.

I am OK with the drilling platforms being used directly for PI and moon mining, but 1000% against them being used to directly mine ore or ice. The ultimate in AFK Carebearery.

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.