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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

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Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#841 - 2015-03-03 23:22:08 UTC
Geanos wrote:
Sorry if somebody already brought it up: the part with the exploding TCU is problematic. It will turn the sov capturing into a race of who can drop first the TCU from cloaked blockade runners. And that would made the capture of the Command Nodes pointless.



Y yyy you are right here, but TCU is not playing the main role here any more tho.

But you have same stuff with pos's and Coustom offices now, and it seems ok ^^
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#842 - 2015-03-03 23:22:27 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#843 - 2015-03-03 23:22:32 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
and so begins the subbing of accounts.. month to month screw paying you guys months upfront.. EVER AGAIN.
take your plex and stick it.


I guess you really mean "unsubbing"
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#844 - 2015-03-03 23:22:55 UTC  |  Edited by: SilentAsTheGrave
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Agent Known wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
REALLY IMPORTANT:


Entosis Link should trigger alert IMMEDIATELY - not after a 10 Minute delay when the damage is already done!!!!


*(Please like this post so Dev's will clearly see this)


If you're actively using the system they're contesting then intel channels would tell you well before they got to the structures anyway.


Intel channels don't tell you someone's fit or cargo.


No where in all of EVE's mechanics does an attacker of a POS or POCO or ANY player owned structure get a free 10 minute head start in contesting anything in this game....


@#$@ THAT! That's **** game design right there --- I'm all for what's proposed EXCEPT that!


I would go so far as saying any system upgraded past level 1 (so 2 and above) should give that warning, but only those, so basically if your alliance makes even a passing try at using the space you get that benefit, otherwise, your clueless about who's doing what in that wooded 10 acre lot behind your house.

Maybe actually go into those woods and see instead of relying on automation to play the game for you? Notifications of aggression encourage AFK empires and coalitions. Thus, bad.

If you're actually living in the space, then you will know what is going on - without notifications.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#845 - 2015-03-03 23:24:56 UTC
waltari wrote:
So basically sov nullsec turns into some weird form of Faction Warfare with a benefit to literaly nobody, full of 24/7 hellcamped freeports filled with trolls who doesnt realy want to hold the SOV anyway (due to reason mentioned earlier), whilst denying the current holders possibility to protect it effectively due to split timezones, great concept realy, keep up good work.



Adapt or die, welcome to eve, this game is dark and hard. GO BACK TO WOW xD Xa xa xa
Aya Nova
Bearded BattleBears
#846 - 2015-03-03 23:25:49 UTC
Capqu wrote:
buff sov benefits to compensate

+20% mining yield per industry index
+20% anomaly cash yield per military index

or some ****

i say this as someone who has never lived in sov and has harassed lots and lots, there needs to be a buff to people living there if there's gonna be such a huge buff to me and mine


i mean why wouldnt you just do lvl 4s and mine in highsec even more than people do already if sov is getting harder to hold


Some kind of boost would be good. The income from null mining vs hisec is laughably low. Extra yeld isn't really an answer though as it would increase drag tedium / overflow ore hold.

I'd prefer to see new types of ore added that only appear in L5 systems (or scale in commonality in L3-5 systems) which refine into massively larger amounts. (ex. a Super-Duper Trit that yelds 3x as much as regular Trit, but is only present in L5 industry systems.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#847 - 2015-03-03 23:26:21 UTC  |  Edited by: KIller Wabbit
Myriad Blaze wrote:
Quote:
and the Industrial Index is obtained by mining in the system.

So considering the new importance of maxing defense bonuses from occupancy, how is mining for a high industrial index better than grinding structures? If I wanted to shoot rocks, I could have stayed in high-sec. At least tie the industrial index to industry maybe? Probably in the form of building/producing stuff? Maybe even consider planetary industry.




How about recruiting people to shoot those rocks for you? You know, the guys in HiSec that you **** over when you've been bored with Sov games?

---
Signature Locked
Capt Tenguru79
We Love Cynos
We Use Cynos
#848 - 2015-03-03 23:28:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Tenguru79
Escuro wrote:
Capt Tenguru79 wrote:
Escuro wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Devs, make sure you cant fit entosis links to frigates.

Intys, cov ops, bombers, nano dessys.... Thats bit too easy for griefers to exploit.

Let it be on cruiser and above hulls only.

tell me how. Activating the link will prohibit you from cloaking, warping etc. You can fit an inty to lock up to 120-130km. This can be countered with a LOT of stuff. Also, you can just use your own link and don't bother at all.

Actually you can get a crow to lock up to 175k with implants and passive boost, and have a MWD. have not checked with links yet but most certainly about 220-230k

i'd like to see the cap consumption of the "link" first before discussing it actually. if it will eat out your cap - any other inty will counter it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgv1g1zdlkssp59/Sov%20Grind%20Ceptor.PNG?dl=0
And that is without proper links, the SC is the ceptor being in a fleet with its self.
this was a 20 sec build i am sure someone can come up with something better if they spend time on it
It even has the majority of its fittings left to fit the module as well
Proton Stars
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#849 - 2015-03-03 23:29:04 UTC
Ha, alliances are going to have to ration fa fest atendees! If too many fc's go they won't have space to come home to in 2016.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#850 - 2015-03-03 23:29:30 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
The Zombie F1 pusher died today.


It took a while, did it?
iP0D
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#851 - 2015-03-03 23:29:33 UTC
Elana Apgar wrote:
Everyone's complaining about the timezone mechanic, but to it actually sounds like a good idea. Who doesn't want to have guaranteed PVP every day during their prime time?



Sadly, the absolute minority of eve.
Leisha Miranen
Doomheim
#852 - 2015-03-03 23:30:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Leisha Miranen
Holy ******* **** CCP, is this a joke?

40 Minutes to RF? Tone this down before it's too late to back out. This is insane. LET ME REPEAT, THAT IS INSANE. Why would anyone store ships in a system that can be RF'd in 40 minutes by a small gang?

R.I.P. Null sec Coalitions.

It should take a significant amount of work to take a system. This will be the last nail in the coffin of EVE online's Null Sec. population, because it no longer be viable to defend and hold sov. Srsly. ******* fix this, right now.
Proton Stars
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#853 - 2015-03-03 23:31:09 UTC
Also why on earth are fcon defending this? They'll be wiped off the map quicker than a *** stain in a nudey booth
Escuro
SUN PRAISING INTENSIFIES
DarkSide.
#854 - 2015-03-03 23:32:29 UTC
Capt Tenguru79 wrote:
Escuro wrote:
Capt Tenguru79 wrote:
Escuro wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Devs, make sure you cant fit entosis links to frigates.

Intys, cov ops, bombers, nano dessys.... Thats bit too easy for griefers to exploit.

Let it be on cruiser and above hulls only.

tell me how. Activating the link will prohibit you from cloaking, warping etc. You can fit an inty to lock up to 120-130km. This can be countered with a LOT of stuff. Also, you can just use your own link and don't bother at all.

Actually you can get a crow to lock up to 175k with implants and passive boost, and have a MWD. have not checked with links yet but most certainly about 220-230k

i'd like to see the cap consumption of the "link" first before discussing it actually. if it will eat out your cap - any other inty will counter it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgv1g1zdlkssp59/Sov%20Grind%20Ceptor.PNG?dl=0
And that is without proper links, the SC is the ceptor being in a fleet with its self.
this was a 20 sec build i am sure someone can come up with something better if they spend time on it

Look at the cap. You need 12 minutes minimum, and up to 40 on an active system. Add some cap use from the link and you are shot after 5 minutes - have no guns, no speed, can't warp. Sounds like a plan :D
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#855 - 2015-03-03 23:38:03 UTC
I think that would be cool, if system military/industry lvl is below 2, the system is vulnerable.

If you do nothing with your sov, there sould be no defensive prime time window
Capt Tenguru79
We Love Cynos
We Use Cynos
#856 - 2015-03-03 23:38:24 UTC
Escuro wrote:

Look at the cap. You need 12 minutes minimum, and up to 40 on an active system. Add some cap use from the link and you are shot after 5 minutes - have no guns, no speed, can't warp. Sounds like a plan :D

First off who runs links from a crow and not a booster t3 or at least a commandship, As for speed i am sure someone can get a better fit if they play around with it i never claimed the fit was perfect. Also as far as guns the fitting requirements easily allow launchers. This was merely a proof of concept not the new meta.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#857 - 2015-03-03 23:39:09 UTC
Long post incoming.

First off, these changes as they stand make CONDI win eve, thanks CCP.

The changes as they currently stand heavily favor nullified ships, meaning that you will see large gangs of inties and t3s roaming around as the main strategic fleets. Being as this counters the basis of having better ship usage distribution in EVE, I would suggest removing interdiction immunity from all ships. Otherwise, some unnamed group that may or may not exist will gladly burn down all of Eve in inties. Good luck ever catching them.

These new mechanics are actually good and remove the (N+1) requirement of supercapitals to control nullsec space. HOWEVER, CCP is not fully attacking the problem- only part of it.

As nullsec stands, there is very little reason for large groups to go to war. Aside from moons and rental territory, there is no incentive for a group to go on a full scale war with any other equally sized group. These suggested changes do not change the fundamental issue that we have no reason to engage in massive warfare, especially because it is difficult to successfully control multiple areas of space. This change will only continue the blue doughnut empires around Eve (of which the CFC is technically one of the smaller blue doughnuts).

In order for the nullsec landscape to change in a meaningful way, there needs to be incentive to hold additional space. As it stands, nullsec income varies wildly between -.01 and -.50+, with the former systems arguably being worse than highsec. Nullsec specific ore is some of the worst ore in the game (because CCP still hasn't fixed null anomalies), and Null ice hardly is as valuable as it should be because of all of the reductions in ice product usage.

While many people think that nullsec is a place with infinite riches, it's hardly that. Sure, ratting in null is good because you can do it pretty much entirely AFK. However, in an ishtar, AFK ratting nets a measly 60-70 million isk an hour on average, before taxes. Active ratting can make over 100 mil an hour, sure. But if you're doing active anything, you'd make significantly more money in Wormholes or even blitzing highsec missions.

There needs to be an incentive for two equally sized groups to go to war. Until that happens, nullsec will change in small amounts but not change over time. Sure, groups like the CFC will give up regions of space because it becomes a pain in the ass to defend them because of CCP changes, but these changes will not encourage such groups to full on go to war with each other, which is what Eve needs.

Overall, I like these mechanics, but there needs to be more in order to actually encourage groups to use them. These will not suddenly give NC. a reason to come attack Deklein, as the aforementioned group that may or may not exist would burn all of their space down.
Thucydides Herodotus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#858 - 2015-03-03 23:40:17 UTC
"Maximum range of 25km for Tech One, 250km for Tech Two.
Requires a target lock on the structure.

Capital Ships would have restrictions for using these modules, most likely in the form of a role bonus that increases the cycle time by 400% (this means a 10 minute cycle time for a T2 Entosis Link on a capital ship)."

First off the bonuses to the T2 (in theory) are just absolutely ridiculous. A large capital fleet of armour ships with mids having a range scripted sensor booster and drone tracking/range mods fit would be able to self rep and maintain the point from 250km off the target piece of SOV? Sheebus.


Once the Territorial Claimamigigger is destroyed anyone can then drop a new one in the system? So the attacking force is three jumps out, the defending force realizes they can't win. They return to base, get large un-maneuverable but powerful ships out, let the attackers win the battle three jumps out and then just drop their new replacement TCU and wax the crap out of any attackers in system doing the same? Maybe everything should just change hands and anything but a station should just random spawn like an anom.

ugh. I think this is going to be, once again, very beneficial to the biggest blob that can just break itself into the biggest smaller pieces with the caviate of adding the most timezones due to the downtime continuation.

Deciding Phoebe was a good thing based on crap stats about how people aren't actually getting the chance to play eve anymore is wrecking your self assessment/decision making processes. (you mentioned it in your post not me). I get the timers from Phoebe I still don't get the ranges at all. Honestly all I've noticed is a 30 minute fleet takes 3 hours now and there is never anyone still there to fight.

I'd like to know what a small alliance that takes a relatively undefended and undeveloped system in the backwoods of a less important region of space is going to gain from that? Are they going to mine for not enough minerals to build anything? With reduced jump ranges on Jump Freighters and friends how are they going to get their mod fought gains out of said system?

~Cheers.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#859 - 2015-03-03 23:42:29 UTC
Leisha Miranen wrote:
Holy ******* **** CCP, is this a joke?

40 Minutes to RF? Tone this down before it's too late to back out. This is insane. LET ME REPEAT, THAT IS INSANE. Why would anyone store ships in a system that can be RF'd in 40 minutes by a small gang?

R.I.P. Null sec Coalitions.

It should take a significant amount of work to take a system. This will be the last nail in the coffin of EVE online's Null Sec. population, because it no longer be viable to defend and hold sov. Srsly. ******* fix this, right now.


Srylyly What?


YOu have your prime time window, capture **** in 10 min as a defender, what else would you like? lol

Drop some idea here, not just "THAT IS INSANE NOOO CHANGES NOOO AAAAaaaaaaa rip."

Adapt or die this game is hard and dark, and this new sov is some fresh air to stale smelly null-sec
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#860 - 2015-03-03 23:43:43 UTC
Bonzair wrote:
Give us possibility to choose version before production changes :D You'll see that all your 'features' are a piece of s***

http://funnyshit.com.au/img/bigcupofshutthefuckup.jpg