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[Scylla] Skynet - Removing Fighter Assist

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FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#1041 - 2015-03-05 18:43:31 UTC
Jason Atavuli wrote:
FireFrenzy wrote:
and that plex dont magically spawn in game? They are people giving up heard earned real cash for magical internet spaceboat money?




Yep, and if you buy a plex in game from someone who has bought it for real $ then CCP does not make another plex sale for real $ right now during this financial month, to you.

Next month is next month, new page in the ledger. That's 1 of the reasons the world's economy is in it up to it's neck.

A sale is a sale even if you just break even. There are always plex for sale and someone is always buying.

Oh and CCP can make plex magically spawn, also rocks, rats, t2 BPOs and an NPC nidhog in nullsec, D-P I think it was - renter space near G3D-ZT


Okay explain to me where the magical plex come from please

Say I buy 5 plex this month because i want a shiny thing and i sell you 4 plex and use one for my own account. Where does CCP lose money? Especially since i pay more for the plex then i would pay for game time if i just buy it straight up?
Galian Kile
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#1042 - 2015-03-05 18:47:22 UTC
Davir Sometaww wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Hello

Appreciate all the feedback very much.

Based on what you've said here we are planning to leave Fighter warping in, but stick with removing assist.

We hear the concerns about the state of capitals and loss of return on investment from training towards them and we absolutely want to make sure that caps of all kinds are not only viable but exciting and powerful. We still feel this change is necessary, but we are looking into ways to improve on the state of capitals and capital balance. No news on that front for now but it's something we are committed to improving.

Thanks again.


Way to dumb down the game. So much to listening to your player base who have spent MONTHS training for these things.

The least you can do is make it where only interdictor and heavy interdictor's can point a carrier/dreadnought.

Once again; thank you for the finger.


Looks like this change was going to happen anyway. CCP, you may feel its necessary to completely remove it, but it looks like all the players were looking for an alternative. Thanks for listening to us... ...
mannyman
Relics United
#1043 - 2015-03-05 19:05:46 UTC
Panther X wrote:
mannyman wrote:
Isengrimus wrote:
Yay, real life military analogies! Is there an incoming Sun Tzu quote as well?

But caustic remarks aside - I am not really following your point on how 2 Atrons and a Noobship can kill a Capital in EVE - unless, of course, they are being assisted by a flight of Fighters from a safe Super or Carrier, sitting on a POS. That's exactly my point, thank you for that.

Also I believe you are actually reinforcing my key point - two guys in Atrons and a noobship should be an easy kill for a guy in a, say, Vagabond (look at your "it costs more so it should be harder to kill" argument). However, if the said Atrons have ten friends in Carriers in a system, that makes the whole concept of "small PVP" useless and almost totally risk-free for a side using crap ships assisted by fighter - and is EXACTLY what CCP wants to elimante.


The problem exists of 2 things:
1. the carrier is not exposed enough for a good fight to happen
2. the problem exists more in lowsec and gatecamping

There is less of a problem in nullsec as alliances use their toys to defend their own space

Therefore, as I have said before, Empires in Lowsec disrupts the electronics system of the carrier so delegation cant be done, AND, the POS onlines automatically, AND delegation can only be done in nullsec atleast 20km away from the POS shields.


20k is still marginally in range of shields, so I would be happy with 50km. That's too far to slowboat in, not far enough to warp. One would have to be aligned to a safe and be moving to be safer. That is a perfectly reasonable compromise wouldnt you agree?


I agree! 20 or 50km doesnt matter, point is, further away than being inside pos shields than 10 seconds.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1044 - 2015-03-05 20:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Mkx pl wrote:
Super capitals and theirs assists will be possible only to do for other Carriers or Supers. Not allowed for any other small ships.

Drone Bandwith for Supers and Carriers will be incerased, also Fighter and Fighter bombers will reques to use much more Drone Bandwith than now.

Explain > You can't assist Fighters for any other ship with small Drone Bandwith. Only Supers or Carriers have enought space for keep them

Only in this way we can keep Supers and Carriers to be unique, in other way Capitals will be destroyed.


Thing is - from a gameworld tech/mechanisms point of view - assist/assignment doesn't remove the parent ship from the equation - it still handles telemetry, gunnery, navigation systems, etc. only thing that has changed has delegation of command - hence you can assign fighters to well anything regardless of its own drone capabilities.

mannyman wrote:

I agree! 20 or 50km doesnt matter, point is, further away than being inside pos shields than 10 seconds.


Its more than just about slowboating back inside FF if threatened - don't really want to go into all the techniques people use but it needs to be atleast 20-50km outside of the FF radius to prevent the various ways that can be done to make a carrier or super perfectly safe without moving it an inch.
Vandarra Deneroth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1045 - 2015-03-05 22:38:32 UTC
Set it so Carrier Fighter assist can only happen if the Carrier/Super is on grid. This forces carriers to remain on grid for the fight.

Keep fighter warp so they can chase targets and be unique but disable fighter warp when the fighters are assigned.
Decius Severus
Ordo Equites Regii Sagittarii
#1046 - 2015-03-05 22:50:57 UTC
IMHO leave it as it is BUT give command ships another role bonus so only they can have fighters assigned. It would be a nice motivation to actually bring them on grid instead of just using them as off-grid boosters.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1047 - 2015-03-06 01:02:28 UTC
We still have yet to see a single reason to remove it completely instead of implementing the minimum assist distance from a POS, and making scrams affect drones.
Vandarra Deneroth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1048 - 2015-03-06 03:44:39 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
We still have yet to see a single reason to remove it completely instead of implementing the minimum assist distance from a POS, and making scrams affect drones.


This ^^

Dont remove it .. just make it so they have to be on grid to assist. And/or that you cant enter POS shields while fighters/bombers are deployed.
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1049 - 2015-03-06 04:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: d0cTeR9
CCP Rise has already decided that our feedback isn't worth anything, as per his decision to still implement a complete nerf instead of doing one of the dozen options we have brought forward, like assign fighters at least 150+ km from a POS or something...

Well i feel like an idiot wasting my time doing CCP's job in how to fix the game... I feel even more of an idiot wasting all this time and isk owning a supercarrier and multiple dps carriers...

This is somewhat equivalent to taking heavy drones and sentry drones away from isthar's... Pretty big nerf...

Ugh

Been around since the beginning.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1050 - 2015-03-06 07:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
Problem with having a minimum distance from POS is that the carrier will just sit over 200km off the POS and align to the tower. If anything bad is about to happen, instant warp to safety.

Therefore minimum distance will change nothing.

If anything, POS shields need to go and POS's need to be completely redesigned into modular small starbases. Where is that dead horse thread?

Then, it wouldn't matter if you assigned fighters. You'd have a weapons timer and be vulnerable as you wouldn't be able to instantly reach safety.
Decius Severus
Ordo Equites Regii Sagittarii
#1051 - 2015-03-06 08:21:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Decius Severus
Let us try a combination of several ideas that have been brought forward:

1. Fighters can only be assigned to a certain ship type OR to ships having a new module 'fighter control unit' fitted (e.g. role bonus, imho command ship)
2. Fighters can only be assigned, if the carrier is outside of a pos force field with a minimum distance.
3. While fighters are assigned, the carrier is in a mode a little like when a triage modul is activated: no movement, no warping - and it stays like this for at least 5 minutes after fighters return. (Or even only let fighters be assignable IN triage mode ...)

With these limitations the rest could stay as it is ....

How is this?
X4me1eoH
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1052 - 2015-03-06 10:53:20 UTC
I think need remove assist ability, but keep warp ability.

Гайды по еве: https://www.youtube.com/user/X4me1eoH/feed?&ab_channel=X4me1eoH
X4me1eoH
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1053 - 2015-03-06 10:58:12 UTC
And all messages with suggestions keep capitals at 10-20-50 km from field for assisting I think wrong. Because capital can be at safe spot with alining to pos.

Гайды по еве: https://www.youtube.com/user/X4me1eoH/feed?&ab_channel=X4me1eoH
Decius Severus
Ordo Equites Regii Sagittarii
#1054 - 2015-03-06 11:11:17 UTC
X4me1eoH wrote:
And all messages with suggestions keep capitals at 10-20-50 km from field for assisting I think wrong. Because capital can be at safe spot with alining to pos.


Not if it can't move nor warp ... see my last post.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#1055 - 2015-03-06 11:24:24 UTC
Seems people have realised that ccp don't care on this one and are going to force the changes through no matter what
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1056 - 2015-03-06 11:58:58 UTC
X4me1eoH wrote:
And all messages with suggestions keep capitals at 10-20-50 km from field for assisting I think wrong. Because capital can be at safe spot with alining to pos.


See earlier in the thread, while not trivial to do a capital aligned in space is catchable.
Dackota
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1057 - 2015-03-06 12:30:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dackota
Id keep fighter assist for allies on grid.
Fighters can warp with carrier.
Fighters will not warp with target.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1058 - 2015-03-06 14:00:21 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Seems people have realised that ccp don't care on this one and are going to force the changes through no matter what


Or they took it into account and decided each suggestion was not enough so they are going ahead with their own idea but I guess that is patently impossible right...
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#1059 - 2015-03-06 14:27:10 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Seems people have realised that ccp don't care on this one and are going to force the changes through no matter what


Or they took it into account and decided each suggestion was not enough so they are going ahead with their own idea but I guess that is patently impossible right...

well keeping the feature would be against the policy of dumbing the game down that's been occurring for the past few years.
shame really. even im starting to lose interest in eve. everything I train for, spend months grinding for, gets nerfed.
its like saving up for something for years to find out its got 90% off the week after.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1060 - 2015-03-06 15:48:34 UTC
For all the people whining about "they'll just sit at a safespot aligned", if you force a carrier to warp into a POS and lose his drones, I'd call that mission accomplished, wouldn't you? OTOH, you can just bring a cloaky T3 or something in, probe down the general location of the carrier in relation to the POS, and drop a drag or stop bubble. Once you spook the carrier, he'll warp to the POS only to be caught in the bubble, and you'll have plenty of time to shoot him while he tries to slowboat out of the bubble.