Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Doesn't really solve anything though - shuffles the problem around a bit but doesn't address the core issue.

OHH NONONONO

I was redirected her from another thread if I wanted to harvest tears. Thread delivers. The number of renters crying about losing skynet is too damn high!

Good change, CCP.

I'm hoping for an AFK Cloaking devblog sometime in the next several months.

Even a battleship with (skynet) fighters as is is still a platform that can apply battleship through to capital levels of damage to things that battleships through to capitals can only dream of hitting that effectively.





The last 30 pages of this thread have been constant repeats of the first 10 pages 3x over :( with the same points, misconceptions and counter points being brought up :S

CCP is seriously losing steam. They have been for the past couple of years. That's the real problem.

I already proposed this in the comments of the devblog itself, but i feel it should actually be here.

Keep the fighter assist mechanic like it is and add the range mechanic from the cynos - basically: no launching fighters within 25km off the forcefield so you have to stay either at a station (where you can't dock when using them in pvp) or on a save where you can be scanned down by a prober.

If you take the safe way (cloaking up/docking up) the fighters will become useless and you dont have any possibility to recollect them without scanning them down later/doing a boomark at their location...so risk vs. reward i'd say.

Risk: Losing hundreds of millions in fighters/losing the carrier

Reward: better ticks in nullsec/more kills in pvp/whatever else

I am a sub-cap pilot and the longer I play it appears I will be staying a sub-cap pilot.


The risk/reward of flying a carrier is pretty obvious.

Risk is getting tackled by a single interceptor and praying to God he doesn't have any friends willing to shred your carrier to metal bits nearby. Otherwise anyone piloting a carrier he's ratting with is at the mercy of his corp/alliance to save his huge overly expensive ship as quickly as possible.

Reward is that the carrier pilot gets to rat effortlessly and make decent isk. That isk amount is still reasonably in line with what Battleships and Heavy Assault Cruisers do. It's not out of this world enormous though.

The effect of taking away fighter assist is that this hugely expensive ship which already has a huge weakness. Now has one less thing it does in a fleet. So now it's relatively pointless.

I won't be training carrier anytime soon and if developers plan on continuing with this folly I wonder how much longer I will play. Working your way up into larger ships and owning a system with more complex and diverse ships is what all players do. Why on earth would you want to take this away from established players? Why would you want to take anything away from an already ruined ship? It's a disaster this nonsense of making the big ships useless.

Capitol pilots must scream at every one of these nerfs. Ishtar pilots get a nerf to sentry drones. But the Ishtar is still heads above every other ship in it's class.

Another idea - perhaps another module one fits to their carrier that allows delegation of fighters as per current mechanics but with the additional caveats:

a ) the module is an active high slot module
b) said module can only be engaged outside of pos shields
c) Said module prevents carriers from moving until the cycle has completed (like a siege module)

Im not sure if this solves the problem in its entirety ...but may this in conjunction with any of the aforementioned ideas (ie said module cant be activated within x m of pos shields) might help spur ideas that don't take niches away from the game.

The above idea in conjunction with others keeps the person in the game (as they have to commit) and lets carriers keep some of their niche abilities.

It's almost as if 3.2k DPS with Taranis Tracking needs to be balanced in some manner...

I saw currently following feedbacks(tears):


My definition of small Gang PvP is which a small group hunting for valid targets like a guerilla task force behind enemy lines. These groups choose their fight as they know of which they are capable. Yes, a System which provides Skynet is not a juice target for them as they could receive heavy losses.

My definition of medium Gang PvP is which a medium sized group hunting for valid targets and fleets like an visible army.Due the possible provided logistic (3x Basi for example) they are capable to fight a skynet supported fleet and may win the battle as they are able to compensate the incomming DPS.



List against Skynet

What people says which is against skynet:


• A.) High DPS from assigned Fighter
Based on a full DMG / Tracking fit which gives the Capital no Tank compared to battle Archon.

• B.) Carrier edge on the POS
• C.)Carrier online POS withouth FF password
• D.)Carrier close by Station
• E.)Carrier unprobable

Why i think this is not true!


• A.) Fighter are not OP, if 10 Fighter attack a Interceptor i have 10x times the chance to hit which increase the chance that i actually hit. If the Ceptor Pilot is using his MWD he increase the possible damage incoming from the Fighter.

Yes, you are able to kite Fighters you also can kill them quite fast but it requires knowledge, skill and the right tools.
It is not impossible but i also don't tell you which it is easy like HS mining.


• B.) As i already told use a drive by Titan or Super. Instead of an instant blop by a DD from a Titan the supercarrier pilot need some more time to apply his damage with his bombers which gives the skynet carrier some time to move into his pos.


• C.) This sounds more like a Problem with the POS Mechanic instead of a Carrier Problem. I am not familiar with the POS Mechanics but just add an time which takes 60 Seconds to online a FF if it is not done properly in the first way.


• D.) It docks up if it is scared, it may waits until all fighter are back but you could try to DD it.


• E.) With the right Tools,Skills and knowledge you could probe him down.

My feeling in this hot Topic
Because Player don't want to drop a Titan/Super on a skynet carrier doesn't mean they are OP. We still talking about Capital Ships which is an own class for themselves. Capitals fight against other Capitals, this was the idea behind the stone/scissor/paper thingi. Before you point out sub capitals are able to kill Capitals... Yes, you are right but compared to a 1 on 1 or may a 5 on 1 you will be raped by the Carrier.

Above leads us back to the Point which you don't fight if you don't think you can win.
Which again gives a Tactical opportunity for the System owner which can either decide to bait or gatecamp you.
Both will have the effect which the attacker thinks he could win and accept the fight which is also a well known war tactic.

IMHO

I cant understand the Problem, as it is related with the examples which d0cTeR9 showed up:


My options to counter a AFK Cloaker which may hot drop (looks to Hank Taron) requires the knowledge of the amount of in system bridged black ops. (If you have a scout, you able to know it.) It is possible but again the defender has now a high risk to lose all ships in the battle as he may get unexpected outnumbered.

Another good example is the cloaky nullified Link Tengu! To be honest you are quite safe with this Ship as an good Pilot they wouldn't get you. Did you see this? Again i talked about the tools, skills and knowledge. Once the Link Tengu is in System you only can change the System to get a new chance to kill the Links or to avoid the fights. You have no other Option which is exactly the same Problem with Skynet carrier.

Is it really a Problem or just a game mechanic which people don't like?
It is a game Mechanic which people don't like because they need to put more effort in it to succeed.
You just do not drive by a Titan... if you are prepared you have a backup plan. A good backup plan.

Let me have a look for the Escalation Plan:

Cyno
Titan jumps in and starts DD drive by.
For some Reason the Titan get tackeled by an HIC (Yes, the carrier is already dead)
Now you need to blop/neut him or get your backup fleet, asap into the system.
If you bring more than the others you safe the Titan, you may could jam him out :)

But the Point is you need to have a backup plan as a single titan is useless.

Could somebody from the "against Skynet carrier section give out some arguments which they think it is OP?
Because to disable it at all is in my opinion the wrong way but if we can see which specific parts of the skynetting causing the problem it may could be adjusted. I already heard high incomming DPS from Fighter which i cannot agree as you may deal with 10 to 15 Fighter which increase the chance of a hit by 10x to 15x times ... other facts than my increase the damage you receive as you may run an MWD and blowed up you signature to a Battleship.