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[Scylla] Skynet - Removing Fighter Assist

First post First post First post
Author
Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
#41 - 2015-02-27 13:41:05 UTC
Simply remove all flavours of drone-assist.
Literally Space Moses
Perkone
Caldari State
#42 - 2015-02-27 13:42:38 UTC
Just remove drone assist

#T2013

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#43 - 2015-02-27 13:43:42 UTC
War Kitten wrote:

I guess it was too hard to remove ship bonuses from off-grid fighters? Or was that just not nerfy enough?


Not really needed IMO the main issue is the ability to pretty much "blap" smaller stuff that they should never be able to touch in the first place realistically (even if they are frigate sized vessels*) and that can be far more elegantly countered with proper sig/damage scaling than slamming them with the nerf bat.



* Not piloted by pod pilots so not as highly skilled at gunnery + gameplay reasons.
Hiwashi
Shadow State
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2015-02-27 13:44:01 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

A particular point of feedback that we are interested in surrounds the ability of fighters to warp. We know that in some circumstances it can be frustrating to have your fighters warp off grid to chase a target when you would rather have them move to another target on grid with you instead. We also know that fighter warping is unique and provides some interesting gameplay in some scenarios. Would you prefer that we removed the ability for fighters to warp or that we left warping in, despite the absence of assist?


Fighter mechanic that I would be okay with:

You can still assign Fighters, but only if you are on grid with whatever you are assigned the Fighters to. Remove assign entirely if this is too hard to code cause ~Legacy POS code~.

Fighters do not follow their targets in to warp like they currently do. You shouldn't be able to Damage something that isn't on grid with you.

If you warp out, Fighters will follow you.

If you jump out, rip your Fighters.

Serrat Nightchill
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2015-02-27 13:47:03 UTC
I like fighter warping because it's unique to them, maybe limit fighter assisting to just the grid the carrier is on? So they will not warp to get to people they are assisted to. Seems pretty simple and would prevent the sky netting thing unless the carrier is on grid with the fight.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#46 - 2015-02-27 13:47:07 UTC
Pomponius Sabinus wrote:



Well it seems like you realised the problem is risk vs reward while asigning fighters from the edge of a POS FF. But instead of making it more interesting by finding some way to make it more dangerous to asign fighters you sadly take the easy way out and just remove it. It would be way more interesting for the game if you found a way to make carriers that asigned fighters more vulnerable.
The best way to adress this Problem would be to not allow asigning fighters within a certain distance to a POS. This will create a lot of interesting encounters / fights over carier/super carriers that are caught while they asigned fighters.

Concerning fighter warp there is no problem with that. People that don't want it can hit the don't follow button and all is fine.


+1

Especially the bolded part. Just spitballing here, but in addition to not being able to deploy fighters near POSs or stations (and taking away bonuses from assigned fighters), maybe a 'siege-like' module that has to be activated for ships to assign fighters, that locks the carrier or SC in place for at least 5 minutes. And/Or 'recieving ship' bandwidth limitations (if a ship has no drone bay, it can't use fighters, if a ship can deploy 5 sentries it can accept 5 fighters etc, which kills small ship 'Skynetting').

I don't know how much of a nightmare that would be from a programming stand point so I offer the above with a big grain of layman's salt lol, but the point is CCP should be making things more interesting, not less.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2015-02-27 13:48:02 UTC
Grytok wrote:
Simply remove all flavours of drone-assist.


Drone assist is useful in a lot of areas not just pvp. Removing Drone assist is a terrible idea.
Eveli
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#48 - 2015-02-27 13:48:52 UTC
Remove off grid fighter assign.

Simple.

Follow me on the Twitters : @ThisIsEveli

Trafalgar Raw
Definitely Not Cloaked LLC
#49 - 2015-02-27 13:50:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Trafalgar Raw
Please don't remove fighters delegation.. Just make it such that carriers and super carriers need to be in control range like maybe 5au from where the fighters are going.. And for supers you add a new option "warp to fighter range". So you force carriers out of posses and stations and can be probed down and killed. Make people work for the cookie
Bluemelon
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#50 - 2015-02-27 13:51:26 UTC
this change makes me so happy

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Morgaine Mighthammer
Rational Chaos Inc.
Brave Collective
#51 - 2015-02-27 13:52:27 UTC
personally i think that you shouldn't remove fighter assist, just make it so that when assigned they use up the assignee's drone bandwidth and not just a drone slot.

as an example, we in PFR fly gilas. gilas by themselves only have 20mb of bandwidth allowing 2 super bonused medium drones. as a whole the gila is very nicely balanced right now(thank you to whoever made these drone chages to guristas ships, they happened while i was afk from eve), however, a gila can still have an additional 3 fighters assigned to it with current mechanics. yea, that can be a bit op, awesome, but op. and then there's the whole mess in lowsec with gate camps of inty's having a full 5 fighters each.

so yea, dont remove fighters warp ability, that is a unique game mechanic that i honestly would hate to see removed from the game. but the big one that i think will bring the most balance, just make the fighters use your bandwidth when assigned to you. if you have 50mb you get 2, if you have 25mb you get 1, if you have 15mb, you get zero.

simple as that if you ask me.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#52 - 2015-02-27 13:52:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Jenn aSide wrote:

+1

Especially the bolded part. Just spitballing here, but in addition to not being able to deploy fighters near POSs or stations (and taking away bonuses from assigned fighters), maybe a 'siege-like' module that has to be activated for ships to assign fighters, that locks the carrier or SC in place for at least 5 minutes. And/Or 'recieving ship' bandwidth limitations (if a ship has no drone bay, it can't use fighters, if a ship can deploy 5 sentries it can accept 5 fighters etc, which kills small ship 'Skynetting').

I don't know how much of a nightmare that would be from a programming stand point so I offer the above with a big grain of layman's salt lol, but the point is CCP should be making things more interesting, not less.


Some interesting points there, one down side is that a siege/bastion like module would take away a drone control unit slot but tying fighters to some kind of bastion like mode would make them more interesting and give potential for more balanced ways of making them a little less meh outside of skynet type use.

Having them only get bonuses when assigned by activating some kind of bastion like module would be a solution to a fair few issues without a ridiculous nerf though I'm not hugely in favour of it.

EDIT: I guess as a compromise for off grid use it wouldn't be so bad as you could still fit for 15 fighters when doing stuff ongrid just lose the extra slot when assigning - the game should always be about making a choice and/or compromise not about flat out nerf batting.

EDIT2:

i.e. purely for illustration purposes something like:

[Fighter Command Processor] - works fairly much like bastion mode including timers and local self rep (can't be fitted with triage), enables fighter assignment, increases fighter tracking (with a corresponding decrease in base), increases durability, can't be activated within x km of POS or station.
Loken Grimsward
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2015-02-27 13:57:05 UTC
I am down with nerfing fighter assist in someway. As to removing it completely, it might be overkill but we can live with it. Nerfing the warp mechanic however would just lead to people using capitals less. I cant see that as being a good thing to be honest. If capitals get nerfed into the ground that will **** alot of people off who spent time training the skills.
Kat Ayclism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2015-02-27 13:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kat Ayclism
Just remove assist entirely and leave in Fighter warping. Assist has always been a pretty terrible mechanic anyway.

Carriers and supers are way too slow to make having to chase down abandoned Fighters from warping off anything but a huge hassle, and while it's annoying sometimes if they follow some one off grid it's also a pretty unique and lore-consistent behavior (as they are supposed to essentially be piloted frigates).

If someone doesn't want their fighters to follow, there's already settings for that so no need to remove that from people that occasionally do- whether to score that follow through kill or to make shooting targets within the same system but not grid less annoying.
Atrol Nalelmir
Sanctuary of Shadows
Brave Collective
#55 - 2015-02-27 14:00:52 UTC
Skynet is broken, but warping fighters/fighter bombers are cool
Jayne Fillon
#56 - 2015-02-27 14:02:27 UTC
Keep fighter warping.

I've killed more than one off-grid target after they initially escaped and then warped to a celestial.

Quick drone return when fighting something on grid, but hundreds of kilometers away.

Being able to leave grid without having to wait for your fighters to return.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#57 - 2015-02-27 14:02:51 UTC
Rroff wrote:
War Kitten wrote:

I guess it was too hard to remove ship bonuses from off-grid fighters? Or was that just not nerfy enough?


Not really needed IMO the main issue is the ability to pretty much "blap" smaller stuff that they should never be able to touch in the first place realistically (even if they are frigate sized vessels*) and that can be far more elegantly countered with proper sig/damage scaling than slamming them with the nerf bat.



* Not piloted by pod pilots so not as highly skilled at gunnery + gameplay reasons.


The only reason they could blap that small stuff is because they benefited from an overload of tracking and damage mods on the carrier. If those bonuses weren't applied off-grid from the carrier, that couldn't happen any more.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Grookshank
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#58 - 2015-02-27 14:04:40 UTC
Just remove the Fighter/Fighter Bomber Assist. I don't see anything broken risk/reward wise with fighters warping and following a target. It just makes them unique in that regard.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#59 - 2015-02-27 14:08:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
War Kitten wrote:

The only reason they could blap that small stuff is because they benefited from an overload of tracking and damage mods on the carrier. If those bonuses weren't applied off-grid from the carrier, that couldn't happen any more.


People use assigned fighters for other areas of eve not just skynet which would be affected by the loss of bonuses - though only applying the lack of bonus off-grid would have less an effect than a total loss when assigned/assisted.

EDIT: Assist would keep the bonuses ongrid anyhow mind unless that was special cases yet again as its a different mechanic to assigned.
colera deldios
#60 - 2015-02-27 14:08:26 UTC
Fighters are not OP when they are not bonuses from drone mods. Why not simply remove drone module effects to assigned Fighters. So when fighters are assigned they only get ship hulls bonus..


This feels a lot like nerfing out of spite.. Assisting fighters has it's positives it seems wrong to remove a mechanic simply because few incompetent people can't setup a trap.