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[Scylla] Skynet - Removing Fighter Assist

First post First post First post
Author
Theon Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2015-02-27 16:36:47 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Remove:
- fighter assist.
- fighter follow in warp the target.

Keep:
- fighters warping with the carrier

So you can send fighters only against target on grid.
When the target warps off the grid fighters will NOT follow.
When the carrier warps off the grid fighters will drop aggro and follow the carrier.



+1 for this idea, balances out the major negatives, but keeps in one of the unique things about carriers/supers.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#202 - 2015-02-27 16:37:48 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

None of those bug matter is fighters can't hit anything smaller than a Dread. And that's the whole point.

Removing fighter delegation because drone mods/bonuses being applied to fighters that can then be delegated is exactly like saying "you robbed a bank and used a car for the get away, I'm going to let you keep the money and go free and arrest the guy who sold you the car!".-Signed, CCP Police Department.


Ignoring the bugs, I am suggesting to you that making it so that fighters lose their bonuses off grid is probably going to take a huge amount of development time from CCP for lackluster returns. The usage of assisted fighters before the changes was close to non-existent. Are there actually any tangible uses for assisted fighters if they do not retain the current stats?


The ships that get them assigned have to sacrifice for webs and target painters and such, so yea their is, but not as easy as it is now. And it's for CCP to decide how hard a change is, however eliminating a 10 year old thing rather than reverting a 3 month old change doesn't make sense.

If a thing causes a problem you fix that thing, not things that didn't cause the problem.


What if they want to keep the modules affecting bomber/fighter? Did you think that might be the reasons why they didn't just revert back? What if they changed their mind and think projecting damage off a ship own grid is broken just like they want to get rid of OGB but can't for technical reasons?

The only real problem with this change right now is we get no answer on why approach X, Y and Z were not used to fix the issue.


if that's the issue CCP should say so. Still, the change to make fighters use bonuses happened, it can un-happen. I'd much rather see CCP change the thing that created the problem rather than trash can a cool game mechanic that is innocent.

It won't be the end of the world if they get rid of fighter delegation (or even fighter warping, though a fighter warping nerf WILL have a more noticeable effect), just the end of a cool aspect of the game that didn't cause any problems.
kelvin oriley
Caldari Deep Space Ventures
#203 - 2015-02-27 16:38:40 UTC
kelvin oriley wrote:
Within hours of the Dev blog you get this reaction I'd say this is pritty much 70%against the idea 20%for the idea and 10% trolls

normaly I'm all for change etc but you seem to have given up thinking about things

It's about risk adverse behaviour and it's use to make small ships even more over powered

Yes stop fighter assist withing X range of a force field this has been an issue for a wile
no don't stop it from stations they still have the aggression timer like the rest of us and it's easy enoth to bump a carrier off a station in 60 sec

Limit the amount of fighters that can be assigned to a class of ship

Frig not possible
destroyer gets one
cruiser gets two
battle cruiser gets three
battle ship gets 4
capitals get 5


Please stop thinking so linea some times things arnt as simple as on and off or black and white most of the time it's lots of gray in between that would both please the masses and help the game



Our and as for the warp feature keep it but they should be able to be pointed and Should be effected by warp bubbles etc and I can't belive this was not the case allready
egyhenger
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#204 - 2015-02-27 16:39:26 UTC
Just keep warping ability of fighters... no need to remove that feature... that is carriers' wow factor...


P.S.:
oh and one more thing... bring back the 2-mill wardec fee... then Sephiroth Nahema will return to **** newbies in highsec... :)
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#205 - 2015-02-27 16:40:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ITTigerClawIK
i think removing fighter assist is a bit harsh, tbh the main issue is carriers and supers just sitting outside of POS shields and the solution of having a minimum distance from a POS shield to Assist honestly sounds alot better than complete removal, also i like the idea of having fighters pointable.

im also not opposed to the idea of only being able to assign fighters to cruiser sized hulls and above.

Edit: alomost forgot, keep fighters abuility to warp after targets, love having ships warp out and thinking there safe... then pop XD
Nightfox BloodRaven
Soul Takers
Pen Is Out
#206 - 2015-02-27 16:40:30 UTC
CCP Rise is decision is biased since he is close to a group of "solo" pvp players who cant kill a off grid carrier assign with their 2 off grid link ships and billions of implants.. I ve seen these try hards whine this game mechanic for month because they were butt hurt that they got owned.

The same people whine about off grid carrier assign fighter uses 2-3 off grid boosters so please shut up.

I have NO PROBLEM WITH THIS CHANGE IF YOU ALSO REMOVE OFF GRID BOOSTING/LINKS has been a problem for years.. talk about reward and risk.. I am solo pilot mostly without links and alts and i have been killed by carrier assign before i thought it was pretty neat and cool mechanic.. and i have no problem with it because if I can do it too if I found a capable gang with the skills. So its NOT OVERPOWERED since ANYONE CAN DO IT.

As well, it takes years to train carrier/super carrier skills and billions of isk invested why shouldnt they enjoy the advantage over a bunch of small gang " solo" cruisers or bcs..

If you want to change it set a distance limit from pos dont just kill it entirely and dont pick and chose based on personal connection to a group of players. You can say you are removing it due to overpower and no risk versus reward yet NOT remove off grid boosting which has been a much bigger problems for years.

Very biased thinking CCP.
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
#207 - 2015-02-27 16:40:54 UTC
How about this: don't remove fighter assist, and instead make fighters pointable. This way, if you let your fighters out of your sight, you might actually lose them for a change. People might consider this when assigning half a billion ISK in fighters to a single frigate that can't keep them safe.
Aliventi
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#208 - 2015-02-27 16:41:05 UTC
Fighters should not be able to warp after targets, but if you enter warp they should warp after you. To be perfectly honest I have seen lots of ships warp away to a cluster of planets, moons, asteroid belts and occasionally gates. When that happens I have to guess as to specifically where they went. The miracle of fighters following a target is they somehow magically know where the ship is warping to within moments of the ship entering warp. There is nothing in the game that can guarantee 100% perfect knowledge of where a ship is warping to within moments of a ship going into warp... except target following fighters. Because of this target following fighters should be removed.

I think that fighters should follow you if you go into warp. That will help maintain some usefulness and uniqueness about fighters. However, if someone is warp disrupting or scramming a fighter it should not be able to follow you when you warp.
Emmy Mnemonic
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#209 - 2015-02-27 16:44:08 UTC
If fighter-assist capability is removed, carriers will be used less for pvp than they are as of now. There is no reason to warp a carrier into that kind of fight, where you today can assist fighters. Instead people will find other ships/means to buff their fleet DPS, just not by carriers.

So, by all means remove the fighter assist capability from carriers, but replace it with something that makes it interesting for people to warp their carriers on-grid! So we get more carriers to kill!

Ex ex-CEO of Svea Rike [.S.R.]

kelvin oriley
Caldari Deep Space Ventures
#210 - 2015-02-27 16:44:28 UTC
What were the csm reactions to this
Jamy Lannister
Doomheim
#211 - 2015-02-27 16:44:46 UTC
Whoever wants this change, obviously doesnt know how to add drones to overview and use their brain.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#212 - 2015-02-27 16:44:49 UTC
Fighters should still warp. As a former carrier and super pilot, i really don;t want to lose 200m in fighters cause i had to bail or got disconnected. The fighters cost enough, the ability to GTFO and have your fighters return to you should remain as part of the carrier, it makes it kinda unique. The whole target following, would be nice if you could turn this on or off, but at the very least, have them follow the carrier and return.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Fred3000
FAIL. INC.
#213 - 2015-02-27 16:46:05 UTC
"Just make the fighters pointable and make it so that proximity to a pos (within 50km) makes it impossible to assign them whether the FF is up or not."

I agree with this.

My suggestion:

Fighters cannot be deployed while in proximity of structures. And WHILE Fighters are DEPLOYED AND ASSISTED the carrier can not enter warp. Problem Fixed.

Fred
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#214 - 2015-02-27 16:46:56 UTC
Emmy Mnemonic wrote:
If fighter-assist capability is removed, carriers will be used less for pvp than they are as of now. There is no reason to warp a carrier into that kind of fight, where you today can assist fighters. Instead people will find other ships/means to buff their fleet DPS, just not by carriers.

So, by all means remove the fighter assist capability from carriers, but replace it with something that makes it interesting for people to warp their carriers on-grid! So we get more carriers to kill!


The problem with the current fighter assist mechanic is that people were not warping their carriers on grid at all, but instead were 40m from a POS forcefield. Using Throw-Away ships as anchors for the drones. This change will result in more PvP as Carriers will have to come onto grid to achieve the same effect as before (Resulting in more content, escalations and carrier kills). If people use other means than interceptors with Einherjis assigned to them then it will be a welcome change.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#215 - 2015-02-27 16:47:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


if that's the issue CCP should say so. Still, the change to make fighters use bonuses happened, it can un-happen. I'd much rather see CCP change the thing that created the problem rather than trash can a cool game mechanic that is innocent.

It won't be the end of the world if they get rid of fighter delegation (or even fighter warping, though a fighter warping nerf WILL have a more noticeable effect), just the end of a cool aspect of the game that didn't cause any problems.


At this point, all I hope for is a DEV blog about what led to this decision with as much details as possible.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#216 - 2015-02-27 16:48:24 UTC
Jamy Lannister wrote:
Whoever wants this change, obviously doesnt know how to add drones to overview and use their brain.


Use your brain and kill the 6km/s battlecruiser EHP Einherjis with 100m sig that 2 shots every kiting cruiser in the game? that has close to the same damage mitigation as most Assault Frigates in the game? yeah...

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

EvilDoomer
Stronghold corp
Cursed Battalion
#217 - 2015-02-27 16:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP Rise wrote:
As announced last night on the o7 show, we have a list of high-impact balance changes planned for Scylla.

This thread is for discussing the proposed removal of fighter assist for carriers and super carriers.

This change being largely driven by 'skynetting' which is a tactic where carriers and super carriers can sit in near perfect safety at the edge of starbase shields and assign thousands of DPS worth of fighter drones to their fleet mates who can fly whatever ship they want *), while wielding an enormous amount of damage. We feel this is not meeting our standards for risk vs reward and therefor would like to remove the ability to assist fighters. More details are covered in this dev blog.

A particular point of feedback that we are interested in surrounds the ability of fighters to warp. We know that in some circumstances it can be frustrating to have your fighters warp off grid to chase a target when you would rather have them move to another target on grid with you instead. We also know that fighter warping is unique and provides some interesting gameplay in some scenarios. Would you prefer that we removed the ability for fighters to warp or that we left warping in, despite the absence of assist?

Look forward to your feedback.

*) *snip* Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited. ISD Ezwal.


OMG, dont remove fighter assist its what a carrier is suppose to do. Game Mechancs work great.

U.S.S Aircraft carriers send out fighters to assist ground forces thats why the carrier is there. Not suppose to be on field fighting. IT's a Fighter Carrier platform.
The game mechanics works great for the carriers. Other than that FATIQUE bull stuff that I'm still pissed a about.
I have been in game since 2003 joined and started playing at the end of beta. Just like many others trained hard and long to get to use a carrier and to jump really far! NERFED.

And Now I have to use gates if Im going to use my carrier close so I dont get jump fatique which I did run upto 30days....

Carriers need to stay at a POS and send out warping fighters and they need to warp there as fast as they can!!! Or when they get there all my people are dead and the fighters were useless.
Please dont nerf the job the fighter they are doing what they are suppose to do.

It would make me sell my carrier cause it would be useless cause of a cry baby that jumped into a .4 and got killed. STAY out of bad neiborhoods and that will not happen.

If you do this nerf to carriers you might as well remove carriers from the game.

Just like flying freighters in empire ganked. Selling that too.

Help keep the seasoned pilots a little happy don't remove what we worked hard to get.

Evil.

CCP start making the game fun again! Maybe play the actual game!! You nerfs and new additions are not making the game fun or adding new players. Missiles don't work, POS lasers cannot hit a slow moving bomber, Mines lost, Capitals are useless.

Nartel Vortok
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#218 - 2015-02-27 16:49:44 UTC
Jamy Lannister wrote:
Whoever wants this change, obviously doesnt know how to add drones to overview and use their brain.


They insta teleport away as soon as you realize they're taking damage by returning ownership to the carrier but yeah lmao.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#219 - 2015-02-27 16:50:05 UTC
kelvin oriley wrote:
What were the csm reactions to this


The majority of the CSM members were in complete support of this change. You can read the January minutes.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#220 - 2015-02-27 16:50:22 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
This change will result in more PvP as Carriers will have to come onto grid to achieve the same effect as before (Resulting in more content, escalations and carrier kills).


You must be new to EVE if you think this change means people are going to bring carriers on grid for any reason.