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Dev Blog: Download-on-Demand Is Coming To Singularity!

First post First post
Author
Worrff
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#141 - 2015-02-28 21:18:13 UTC
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:
So... "DoD Sappin' My Bandwidth!" *Waves engineer wrench wildly"

You always have the option of downloading everything before you start your client. That's what it does today - it's called patching. We're just giving you more options - the option to start playing before the client is fully patched.


If I choose to patch before starting to play, is there a way of opting out of the DoD system, and
disabling or avoiding all this caching of files ?

Or are we forced to go through this laborious process even if we have no intention of ever using it ?

CCP Philosophy: If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it alone and break something else.

Sarmatiko
#142 - 2015-02-28 22:08:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
CCP Snorlax wrote:
We'll see if we can optimize this. Shuffling 12GB of data does exercise the hard disk a bit, but keep in mind also that this is a one-off process.

Speaking of optimization..
Currently I update two clients for different test servers with DoD daily with "download all resources" option enabled.
For some reason both launchers begin full resource check occasionally, even if there was no client update. This process could take 5-7 minutes affecting HDD and processor heavily. Maybe there are some cross-client conflicts (like resfileindex_md5 same for both servers or something else) that cause this? I wonder if this will affect TQ-Sisi clients later.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#143 - 2015-02-28 22:16:14 UTC
Worrff wrote:
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:
So... "DoD Sappin' My Bandwidth!" *Waves engineer wrench wildly"

You always have the option of downloading everything before you start your client. That's what it does today - it's called patching. We're just giving you more options - the option to start playing before the client is fully patched.


If I choose to patch before starting to play, is there a way of opting out of the DoD system, and
disabling or avoiding all this caching of files ?

Or are we forced to go through this laborious process even if we have no intention of ever using it ?

If caching is working as it should, it will only download what you need to do whatever it is your doing.
If it has already been cached from previous use, it won't download again (unless there is an update to something).

So your "laborious process" is actually very minimal, very fast and saves downloading lots of stuff you may never use in game.

You do know how caching works and why it is such a good thing coming to Eve?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Gerart en Daire
HY-AE
#144 - 2015-02-28 22:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Gerart en Daire
Inspired by DoD, the new NPE starting-in-space and static site etc, and the new icons (yay! It's possible to tell apart frigates and destroyers at a glance from the icons, not just the names!), I tried firing up the test server with the DoD client yesterday.

Since I don't have the space to spare on my C drive, it felt like the easiest way to try it was to get a fresh install (I have a pretty good internet connection anyway), since that seemed to be the easiest to set up so the stuff goes into the right partition right away.

I got the installer from the link in the first dev blog about DoD from last December, since the newer ones didn't have direct download links for an installer that I noticed. Ok, I'll admit to being a bit too lazy to fiddle about with copying the entire EVE folder (it takes longer than downloading a new installer!), deleting the files, unpacking the .stuffs etc.

So I got the installer, set it to install in a new folder, made a shortcut, and added /server:Singularity to the target line like the wiki article says. When I tried to start it up, first the launcher crashed (might have had something to do with the fact that I was still logged on to Tranquility on my regular install?). After a restart and after every subsequent restart, the launcher would start up fine and log in fine (and even show the number of pilots online... 83 at the time), and it did do a launcher update, but the play button was greyed out, and it didn't seem to be doing anything in terms of downloading assets or patching (grey progress bar at the bottom, no text indicating any activity). It did once create the C:\Program Data\CCP\EVE\Sharedcache folder (grr!), but they remained empty. Whenever I tried to click on the cog button to see about changing the folder, the launcher either didn't respond to the click at all or crashed (basic Windows error popup, "launcher.exe has stopped working").

So that's my 2 cents so far, and a plea for help at the same time: any ideas on what went wrong?

edit: after the launcher patched itself, it was version 2.2.865769. It never asked to prime the cache. I can run my Tranquility install just fine.
Gerart en Daire
HY-AE
#145 - 2015-02-28 23:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Gerart en Daire
So I thought about trying some other tactics... downloaded the EVE_Online Installer_865562.exe from https://community.eveonline.com/support/download/. But that one wants to download the entire 7 GB right away, so that's a no-go. :(

So I caved and followed the wiki article's instructions to make a new folder, delete .patch/.download files from the old one, copy contents of old one to new one, wait while it copies >13 GB, including .stuff files I wouldn't be using )...

Realized midway that hang on, if I say 'no' to unpacking the stuff to the default location, so that I can actually change the location (as outlined in newest dev blog on DoD), I don't need any of these 12GB of .stuff files even though none of the instructions mention that you don't have to copy those. So I made a 3rd EVE folder that I just copied the non- .stuff files to (only 1.36GB!

End result:
  • Started up the modified shortcut in the EVE folder with .stuffs copied, it starts up and I can vew the settings from the cog button... until the launcher quickly autoupdates and restarts to version 2.2.865769 and resumes the same behaviour as when I just downloaded a client, as detailed in the previous post (crashing on attempting to view settings, doesn't offer to prime the cache).
  • Started up the modified shortcut in the EVE folder without .stuffs copied. Same deal.
  • Started up my regular EVE client, which apparently has launcher v.2.2.859950. Game starts up fine, can access settings fine.
  • Ran "D:\...\repair.exe" --server=sisi in both copied folders. Repairs fine, launcher starts up ok, allows login, but still grey play button, nothing on progress bar, and crash when clicking the cog button. The only change I noticed was that the repair deleted the .stuff files from the folder that had them, apparently.


So it seems that the autoupdate/newest version of the test server launcher, either from an old Tranquility install's version, or from the only "test DoD with this fresh install client here" download link I've found, at least breaks accessing the settings for me. Possibly also causes it not to even ask to prime the cache. And it doesn't seem like I'm able to get on the test server at this point, and I'm out of ideas on what to try.

Help?
Castelo Selva
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#146 - 2015-02-28 23:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Castelo Selva
My piece of feedback, first test.

I copy my eve files to another HD, then point the shortcut to Singularity and start the launcher. It update to the new version without problem, then close. I started it again, get the message, click yes and then I choose to prime the cache, aka unpack my stuffs files. It take some time, but rum ok without problem.

When it finish the unpacking, everything went to the C: drive as expected, around 12.5 GB of files. So I open the launch setting and change the location of the sharedcache to the drive I want it, in this case E: and close the launcher. After launcher close, I move the sharedcache folder from drive C: to E: and started the launcher again, which started the patch process to update to singularity. It was around 30Mb download. Launcher finish the patching process and show the “client is ready” message, and then I log only one of my accounts.

The first login take some time to load, around 30 second of black screen with only the spinning well at top left. After I choose my character, I get another clack screen and wait more 30 seconds. After that, I get the load station environment only, no ship image. I open the inventory and try to change ships. The active ship indicator change to the desire ship, but no ship show in the screen at any time. I try to change ships seven or eight times but no luck, only the station background. Another thing I notice was that all the icons from module, ammo and stuffs was missing at my inventory and appears to being downloading because after some seconds the icon image shows. Things are noting looking good, therefore, I close the client and the launcher.

After second start, no problem with the launcher, and client was more responsive with only a few seconds of black screen. That time ship appears inside station and I was able to change ships without problem with all ship showing ok. I then log my second account.

After undock, no ship or station image, only the background nebula. After some time, around 1 minute, station shows but still no ship (picture: http://i.imgur.com/58dCH5j.png). So I dock and undock again, this time station and ship show ok. Then I undock the other account, which show the ship ok. So I start to alt tab between the clients and note that at one of then I was seeing the two ships in space, but at another only one ship was appearing, the other ship was missing (pictures: http://i.imgur.com/J34Bvct.png and http://i.imgur.com/RSQaA3P.png). I did not understand because if the two models are already showing in one of the clients it supposed to show at another, since both clients are supposed to share the same cache.

In addition, I notice at the top left corner a spinning well, on both clients. I did not understand the why but it could be that something was still being downloading. It was supposed to download noting because I did the prime process and the launcher patching to singularity version without problem and then show the “client is ready” message. So, to be sure, I close the two clients and then went to launcher settings and mark the check box “download all the resource files”, close the launcher and start it again.

When launcher boot up it started to download 8.67 GB of files (picture: http://i.imgur.com/LcXwTI5.jpg). Wtf! I did the prime process. It supposed to download nothing more. If the prime process did not work, it expected to give me a warning message, at least. Also, if it not worked, how it created 12.5 Gb of files?

Well, that is my first try. Tomorrow I will have more time to do more tests.

Castelo
Gerart en Daire
HY-AE
#147 - 2015-03-01 01:42:05 UTC
Ok, I'm still unable to get through the launcher, but was able to get the client up and apparently DoD too by launching Singularity through the exefile, but it was a bit fiddly. I used some advice from this post, some experimentation detailed in the next one, abbreviated below in this post):

  1. (Not sure if this is relevant/necessary, but... I deleted the AppData\Local\CCP\EVE\d_test_server_name folders, and did a fresh copy of the 1.36GB of non- .stuff files and folders from my Tranquility folder to my test server folder.)
  2. Tried to startup using exefile.exe /server:Singularity to bypass the launcher and go directly to the in-game login screen. When attempting to login, it refused to connect due to "Incompatible (Release)", but did create the \SharedCache\ResFiles\ including subfolders in the default location, whereas previously I had only seen an empty \SharedCache\ at most.
  3. I tried a sisi-repair (repair.exe --server=sisi), which didn't do anything to the launcher, but it did patch the folder to the Singularity files...
  4. Running the exefile.exe /server:Singularity now allowed me to login to character selection (portraits were blank). Success! (more on my first impressions on DoD below).


I'm still facing the issue that the SharedCache just went to the default location, and it does seem to be downloading stuff in the back as it should with the DoD functionality (it was at ca. 760MB when I first looked, and 1GB when I logged out). However, I can't let it stay there because I don't have enough space on my C: partition for even half a cache, so I'll need to see if I can change the shared cache location without the launcher's settings window, as the launcher is still as broken as when I started.

So yea, as noted above, the in-game login screen let me log in, finally (oh, and this paragraph will mostly be copypasta from my post to the other thread). The game did take a long while (20-60 seconds?) to load up and move on from the in-game login screen though, and was unresponsive while doing so. I Got into the character selection screen (blank character portraits, which isn't a huge problem IMO), got into the game. I watched the intro video because my wife hadn't seen it yet, but after that was over, loading up the station view including my ship was practically instant. Undocking felt pretty much the same as on the regular client, the only thing I noticed was that the planet the station was orbiting around did take a while to pop up its graphics, only the brackets were visible in space at first and then suddenly *boom* a huge planet appeared on screen. It's getting really late, so I left further gameplay testing for later... possibly not before I solve the shared cache location mentioned above, but we'll see.

tl;dr: only got into the game by using sisi-repair + exefile.exe /server:Singularity (I did more steps but copy - sisi-repair - exefile shortcut modified to Singularity seems like it might be enough?). Can't change shared cache location, or don't know how without using the non-functioning test server launcher. However, DoD does seem to be working as intended and fairly smoothly for me.
Gerart en Daire
HY-AE
#148 - 2015-03-01 02:35:48 UTC
Worrff wrote:
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:
So... "DoD Sappin' My Bandwidth!" *Waves engineer wrench wildly"

You always have the option of downloading everything before you start your client. That's what it does today - it's called patching. We're just giving you more options - the option to start playing before the client is fully patched.


If I choose to patch before starting to play, is there a way of opting out of the DoD system, and
disabling or avoiding all this caching of files ?

Or are we forced to go through this laborious process even if we have no intention of ever using it ?


Read what you quoted again. Patching before you start to play IS the way you opt out of DoD. As is downloading a full install just like you do now, instead of DoDing everything to the cache (and it's only one download per resource anyway, until that resource is updated in a patch due to improved textures or something).

This snippet from the early parts of this thread:
CCP Maxwell wrote:
Incidentally, we will provide a full-installer for those wishing to use that.

probably should have read:
Incidentally, we will continue to provide a full-installer for those wishing to use that.
That might've helped avoid some confusion from people denouncing this change as bad, because they don't understand it/haven't fully read the dev blogs on the topic.



and offtopic, but what the heck:
Drizzd wrote:

...
Oh - and another small issue while I am at it:

new opportunities looks good so far - but If it calls you to fight a NPC target - please spawn some .. its really difficult to find one in 1.0 and 0.9 career-agent systems without jumping a good distance away.....

So they didn't deploy the new landmark sites, showcased in the same dev blog as opportunities, yet? Or you just didn't check them out? Each starter system should have one, apparently, if they've been added. If you had read the dev blog in question, you should know that when opportunities go live, the plan is to have new players start in space at a site with some veldspar and a few rats, so they get to try out the opportunities stuff immediately. If older players need to spend a few minute or three to find an NPC to target etc, that's a really minor problem. And anyway, what's stopping you from doing a couple of missions of the military career tutorials to get to one with NPC targets to fight, I haven't read anything about the career tutorial missions being removed?
Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#149 - 2015-03-01 02:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolan Kotulan
It doesn't work on my side. My EVE launcher for Singularity freezes at launch.

I deleted the folder, created a new one, made a copy of TQ's folder, ran the shortcut with "/server:Singularity" in it again and it's still broken.

So I can't even log on Sisi anymore.

Per aspera ad astra

Gerart en Daire
HY-AE
#150 - 2015-03-01 02:51:19 UTC
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
It doesn't work on my side. My EVE launcher for Singularity freezes at launch and I so I can't even log on Sisi anymore.


Try launching with the exefile (make a shortcut with /server:Singularity for \bin\exefile.exe as you would for eve.exe), that allowed me to get into the client directly, and DoD does still start from the client too. Can't set the shared cache location though, at least not in any easy way. If that doesn't work, try doing a sisi repair first.

For more things I tried, read my posts a couple of posts ago, and the thread I linked to in those.
Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#151 - 2015-03-01 03:03:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolan Kotulan
Gerart en Daire wrote:
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
It doesn't work on my side. My EVE launcher for Singularity freezes at launch and I so I can't even log on Sisi anymore.


Try launching with the exefile (make a shortcut with /server:Singularity for \bin\exefile.exe as you would for eve.exe), that allowed me to get into the client directly, and DoD does still start from the client too. Can't set the shared cache location though, at least not in any easy way. If that doesn't work, try doing a sisi repair first.

For more things I tried, read my posts a couple of posts ago, and the thread I linked to in those.

OK, gonna check that tomorow as I'm a bit tired now and I didn't even noticed your posts... thanks!

Gerart en Daire wrote:
Drizzd wrote:

...
Oh - and another small issue while I am at it:

new opportunities looks good so far - but If it calls you to fight a NPC target - please spawn some .. its really difficult to find one in 1.0 and 0.9 career-agent systems without jumping a good distance away.....

So they didn't deploy the new landmark sites, showcased in the same dev blog as opportunities, yet? Or you just didn't check them out? Each starter system should have one, apparently, if they've been added. If you had read the dev blog in question, you should know that when opportunities go live, the plan is to have new players start in space at a site with some veldspar and a few rats, so they get to try out the opportunities stuff immediately. If older players need to spend a few minute or three to find an NPC to target etc, that's a really minor problem. And anyway, what's stopping you from doing a couple of missions of the military career tutorials to get to one with NPC targets to fight, I haven't read anything about the career tutorial missions being removed?

The new Landmark sites were on TQ even before they anounced them (I found one in Bourynes and was wondering what it was as I saw so many very weak NPCs spawning indefinitly and so quickly), so yep, there is definitely all we need about this point.

Per aspera ad astra

Yuri Semah
Dead Corporation 10985
#152 - 2015-03-01 10:12:29 UTC
CCP Snorlax wrote:
Yuri Semah wrote:
The way I installed the DoD Version:
1) start the launcher
2) select "yes" when the launcher asks you if you want to prime your cache
3) let the launcher do what it does (and I'm pretty sure it's not downloading 9GB of data - no way that my mediocre internet connection could do that in 30 min)
4) rename the C:\ProgramData\CCP\EVE\SharedCache folder
5) start the launcher
6) let it do whatever it does
7) done

Everything works fine, as far as I can tell.
However, the first time I started the game I had a black screen for about 20s between when the game was done "loading" and the character selection screen. When I selected my character, it took abother 20s to load the station interior (not captain's quarters). So... maybe add the station interior to the basic game files? Staring at a mostly black screen might put off new players...

Hmm, if you rename the SharedCache folder you're hiding it from the EVE client, unless you changed the setting in the launcher to match. That would mean the client will have to download everything it needs, rather than having the cache primed from the stuff files.

That's the point, I wanted to try the DoD version.
Gerart en Daire
HY-AE
#153 - 2015-03-01 12:46:51 UTC
Nolan Kotulan wrote:

The new Landmark sites were on TQ even before they anounced them (I found one in Bourynes and was wondering what it was as I saw so many very weak NPCs spawning indefinitly and so quickly), so yep, there is definitely all we need about this point.


Yea, I was reading through the Tiamat patch notes just now, and noticed
"A new Rogue Cloning Facility dungeon can now be found in every starter system."
That was in Tiamat 1.0, released on Feb 17. So yea... complaining about not finding enemies is literally just not knowing about where to go, not that there wouldn't be any enemies around in the system.

(and poking people too much towards visiting that static dungeon is risky, because new players might get the impression that that is the usual way to find rats to shoot... static dungeons are one option, but usually not the main one)

*** ending offtopic conversation... ***
Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#154 - 2015-03-01 13:02:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolan Kotulan
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
Gerart en Daire wrote:
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
It doesn't work on my side. My EVE launcher for Singularity freezes at launch and I so I can't even log on Sisi anymore.


Try launching with the exefile (make a shortcut with /server:Singularity for \bin\exefile.exe as you would for eve.exe), that allowed me to get into the client directly, and DoD does still start from the client too. Can't set the shared cache location though, at least not in any easy way. If that doesn't work, try doing a sisi repair first.

For more things I tried, read my posts a couple of posts ago, and the thread I linked to in those.

OK, gonna check that tomorow as I'm a bit tired now and I didn't even noticed your posts... thanks!

OK, so I started again from scratch, with a fresh copy of EVE TQ's folder, and so I confirm that DoD isn't working for me.

If I choose to prime the cache, everything is OK.
But if I don't prime it, then the download start and it always get stuck at some point and the launcher freezes.
If I restart it, the download start again but get stuck even sooner each time until the point when it freezes immediatly.

Please note that I have enough space on my SSD and that I never had any problem with the main TQ's launcher.
Note too that I also cleared all Sisi related folders in all locations (AppData, ProgrammData and Program Files) before trying that again.

Edit
Nah, it isn't even OK if I prime my cache as the launcher start downloading the same 529.72 MB "update to res cache" as soon as the prime cache extraction finishes and the download get stuck again, and the launcher freezes.

Per aspera ad astra

Gerart en Daire
HY-AE
#155 - 2015-03-01 13:20:01 UTC
I don't know who's the winner or loser here, I guess everyone who can't get it to work as intended, or at least not enough to get into the test server, is a loser though...

A few people have gotten into the test server without issues, but are experiencing lots of resources missing, heavy resource usage etc. Basically DoD is making the game unplayable for a long time... this sounds like it might at least partially be due to low bandwidth connections, or other ISP issues. Maybe.

Yours (and many others') launchers seem to be ignoring the command to prime the cache, and then (or immediately if you say no to priming) the launcher's download doesn't work/launcher starts instafreezing before it completes, even if launcher restarts do push the progress bar a bit.


I don't a) get the warning popup about a pre-release launcher version that many people mention at all, b) The launcher does start and updates itself, but it never asks about priming the cache, c) it doesn't start any downloads, and while it usually doesn't crash on its own, possibly because the crashes other people are getting are relating to the downloads, d) trying to go into settings on the launcher, so I could change the shared cache, always crashes the launcher.

By using the repair tool and launching with an exefile shortcut instead of the usual eve.exe shortcut, I can get into the game and DoD seems to work pretty much perfectly for me, but due to d) above I can't change the shared cache location, and because of a small C partition, can't really be on the test server for more than a few minutes (a nominally 100mb connection fills up the little space I have on the drive pretty fast).


CCPlease add the shared cache location as a plaintext setting to EVE\start.ini or something? Or tell me where it is/can be set as a plaintext setting (haven't found it yet)?
Bezulian Askintosh
Black Iron Fists
#156 - 2015-03-01 13:31:51 UTC

I am on test server now and i can tell you right now there is no difference what so ever between the speed you login with the old launcher and the Download on demand....and from what i understand DoD is suppose to give us a lot more speed logging in? so i hope this new share cache is not some new kind spyware to spy on our computers or something...´´SHARE CACHE´´ don´t know what thats all about people
Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#157 - 2015-03-01 13:46:23 UTC
Bezulian Askintosh wrote:

I am on test server now and i can tell you right now there is no difference what so ever between the speed you login with the old launcher and the Download on demand....and from what i understand DoD is suppose to give us a lot more speed logging in? so i hope this new share cache is not some new kind spyware to spy on our computers or something...´´SHARE CACHE´´ don´t know what thats all about people


What the hell are you talking about?!

Per aspera ad astra

Bezulian Askintosh
Black Iron Fists
#158 - 2015-03-01 13:54:18 UTC
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
Bezulian Askintosh wrote:

I am on test server now and i can tell you right now there is no difference what so ever between the speed you login with the old launcher and the Download on demand....and from what i understand DoD is suppose to give us a lot more speed logging in? so i hope this new share cache is not some new kind spyware to spy on our computers or something...´´SHARE CACHE´´ don´t know what thats all about people


What the hell are you talking about?!

I don´t know
Annexe
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#159 - 2015-03-01 14:21:06 UTC
I tried out the new DoD for SISI client. Set a custom location as defined in the post

http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/testing-eve-online-download-on-demand-your-first-steps/

SISI client went about extracting the resource cache to this location.

However on starting TQ client, I get the same msg about running a pre-alpha version of the launcher, and a 7.44GB download starts.


I thought the DoD was only meant to affect the SISI launcher, and now i have to re-download eve all over again?


Did i miss something?


so while the eve repair tool was downloading the 7.44GB patch, i reopened the TQ launcher and it had a 75MB patch.. this quickly loaded and the game opened. So I canceled the repair tool download..

Now all my game settings are reset. UI, everything.




And now, i closed eve to copy my saved UI files back into the user local folder.. restarted client... 7.4GB patch..

Please someone help me restore the client. This is bullsh*t.

Annexe

ITAI - VIP

"i will pop your wreck with faction loot"

Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#160 - 2015-03-01 14:40:28 UTC
Annexe wrote:
I tried out the new DoD for SISI client. Set a custom location as defined in the post

http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/testing-eve-online-download-on-demand-your-first-steps/

SISI client went about extracting the resource cache to this location.

However on starting TQ client, I get the same msg about running a pre-alpha version of the launcher, and a 7.44GB download starts.


I thought the DoD was only meant to affect the SISI launcher, and now i have to re-download eve all over again?


Did i miss something?


so while the eve repair tool was downloading the 7.44GB patch, i reopened the TQ launcher and it had a 75MB patch.. this quickly loaded and the game opened. So I canceled the repair tool download..

Now all my game settings are reset. UI, everything.

And now, i closed eve to copy my saved UI files back into the user local folder.. restarted client... 7.4GB patch..

Please someone help me restore the client. This is bullsh*t.

You obviously missed something and did something wrong.
Can't tell you when or where however, and I'm getting a bit tired of all EVE's related new stuff right now and loosing my patience, sorry.

Hope someone can help you, but... I think that at this point all you can do is redownload all TQ's folder and configure again your settings from scratch... =/

Good luck! o7

Per aspera ad astra