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Walking in stations

First post
Author
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#681 - 2015-04-01 13:50:00 UTC
Jade Blackwind wrote:
...And if we add an opportunity of meaningful PvP as a part of WiS, or, god forbid, unconsensual PvP in public areas with system security limitations, then, those 8% also can grab a gun or a knife and enjoy their share of the gank.

Which leaves us with purebreed forum trolls, the people who think that any kind of immersion is bad, and the PvPers who won't use WiS and are afraid that it will cut their supply of targets in space. I guess that's about 2%.


Example number 2 of how denial warps a persons brain. There is no correlation what-so-ever between PVP play style and disliking the idea of EVE being contaminated by useless avatar play.

WiS PVP would be completely detrimental to the game even if gankers could gank. In space, gankers ganking ships helps the economy by helping create and maintain need for the things PVE players produce (minerals to build more ships, modules to fit on to newly built ships etc). How would WiS pvp beneift the game, by making people go "oh wow, need a new shirt because this one is bloody, better get some Aurum"?

What you want would screw people like me (mission runners and anomaly farmers) who depend on the demand created by PVP (including gankers). And for what, so you can pretend to drink a beer while sitting in a virtual space station looking out a window at a virtual planet? At the bottom of all of this is the WiS advocates' unending selfishness.

You can't seem to understand that some people don't play games for the same reason you do. You want to be 'immersed' in something and that's fine. I don't , for the same reasons I don't like VR and won't be playing Valkyrie (I like to know what world I am actually occupying at all times).


Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#682 - 2015-04-01 14:11:24 UTC
Whittorical Quandary wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:

That said, I am continually amazed at the hostility to social functions in a fundamentally social game. EVE could do much, much more than it currently does to allow people to interact, and I'm not at all just talking about avatars.


It's a social hostility based game.


That's odd. I don't remember much social hostility on comms. Maybe your corp is different than any of mine have been.

It's a fundamentally social game. Unlike a lot of "social" games, it includes the full spectrum of possible social reactions, including shooting that guy in the face because you don't like his mom.

Whittorical Quandary wrote:
Any gameplay or WiS that does not allow you to put on a gun and shoot the person next to you because they talked about how bad your mom playes eve, is bound to fail.


I find it telling that the majority of the opposition to WiS is based on the assumption that an extension to the successful and durable EVE gameplay model would in no way resemble the successful and durable EVE gameplay model. How easy it must be to imagine that the same people who are currently overhauling the spaceship game--somehow, without including a single instance or any space pandas!--will then turn around, pitch all of that, and do something totally different.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Dots
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#683 - 2015-04-01 14:26:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dots
Dersen Lowery wrote:
I find it telling that the majority of the opposition to WiS is based on the assumption that an extension to the successful and durable EVE gameplay model would in no way resemble the successful and durable EVE gameplay model. How easy it must be to imagine that the same people who are currently overhauling the spaceship game--somehow, without including a single instance or any space pandas!--will then turn around, pitch all of that, and do something totally different.


The primary objection to WIS is that CCP does not have the resources to implement it, without cannibalizing resources from spaceship violence development.

All other arguments are philosophical, and have no bearing in the realm of realistic changes we can expect in the game. You want to wish for a unicorn sighting? Fine. Just don't expect someone to take it seriously.

Edit: clarified my first statement.

everything is better with ᵈᵒᵗˢ on it

New Player Opportunities: a gallery

Jade Blackwind
#684 - 2015-04-01 14:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Blackwind
Jenn aSide wrote:
WiS PVP would be completely detrimental to the game even if gankers could gank. In space, gankers ganking ships helps the economy by helping create and maintain need for the things PVE players produce (minerals to build more ships, modules to fit on to newly built ships etc). How would WiS pvp beneift the game, by making people go "oh wow, need a new shirt because this one is bloody, better get some Aurum"?

What you want would screw people like me (mission runners and anomaly farmers) who depend on the demand created by PVP (including gankers). And for what, so you can pretend to drink a beer while sitting in a virtual space station looking out a window at a virtual planet? At the bottom of all of this is the WiS advocates' unending selfishness.
You do realize, that there'd be a large market for WiS equipment, such as guns, vehicles, protective suits, etc., etc? Look at the DUST 514 market section. Now imagine all that stuff could be produced and sold by the actual players.

Dots wrote:
The primary objection to WIS is that CCP does not have the resources to implement it, without cannibalizing resources from spaceship violence development.
I'd start with cannibalizing what's left of Dust, and then Valkyrie, because it's the next Dust, and looked closer at the Fanfest budgets and other nice things, like monuments in Iceland, cubesats, etc. But there's no way that's going to happen.

Quote:
All other arguments are philosophical, and have no bearing in the realm of realistic changes we can expect in the game. You want to wish for a unicorn sighting? Fine. Just don't expect someone to take it seriously.
Exactly, it's pure medieval theology at that point. We're counting the fly's legs and argue whether there are six or this is an impaired fly that lacks two extra legs, because Aristotle saw 8.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#685 - 2015-04-01 14:53:51 UTC
Jade Blackwind wrote:
You do realize, that there'd be a large market for WiS equipment, such as guns, vehicles, protective suits, etc., etc? Look at the DUST 514 market section. Now imagine all that stuff could be produced and sold by the actual players.


So, lets copy what a failed game did (DUST) instead of sticking with what we know is a winning and sustainable (for more than a decade) formula (EVE).

That idea is brilliant, when didn't we think of that earlier? Also, how many player made plasma rifles will it take to equal the loss of one player made Rifter?

If WiS types were the more realistic sort, you all might have been able to make a cogent and compelling argument that would have not only swayed skeptics like me, but also CCP. That you cannot demonstrates that the biggest roadblock to WiS isn't folks like me, or CCP, or even financial and technical reality, but rather the unrealistic and denial-ridden people who currently support it.
Jade Blackwind
#686 - 2015-04-01 15:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Blackwind
Jenn aSide wrote:
If WiS types were the more realistic sort, you all might have been able to make a cogent and compelling argument that would have not only swayed skeptics like me, but also CCP. That you cannot demonstrates that the biggest roadblock to WiS isn't folks like me, or CCP, or even financial and technical reality, but rather the unrealistic and denial-ridden people who currently support it.


/thread Lol
Jenshae Chiroptera
#687 - 2015-04-01 15:26:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Jade Blackwind wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
If WiS types were the more realistic sort, you all might have been able to make a cogent and compelling argument that would have not only swayed skeptics like me, but also CCP. That you cannot demonstrates that the biggest roadblock to WiS isn't folks like me, or CCP, or even financial and technical reality, but rather the unrealistic and denial-ridden people who currently support it.
/thread Lol
No. Jenn aSide steadfastly sticks to what ever they perceive as more macho or in their own interests. Their ego prevents them from accepting the many arguments set forth in this and many other threads.

They are here to make a lot of words and feel self important, not actually achieve anything. "Forum PVP" is their purpose of writing here and as such I pretty much always ignore them and often read the others posts more throughly. They are like a barometer, if they are replying to someone then there is probably something good that is being trolled.

So, not /thread at all.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jade Blackwind
#688 - 2015-04-01 15:38:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Blackwind
Quote:
"Forum PVP" is their purpose of writing here
That's exactly what I meant. The whole discussion about WiS had long ago devolved into a meaningless forum PvP, and because we'll probably never see actual full-scale implementation of WiS (even Legion starts to look unlikely), it's double extra meaningless. The above quote by Jenn was just a good example of a masterful trolling at which we as well may close the thread as redundant.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#689 - 2015-04-01 15:56:36 UTC
Jade Blackwind wrote:
Quote:
"Forum PVP" is their purpose of writing here
That's exactly what I meant. The whole discussion about WiS had long ago devolved into a meaningless forum PvP, and because we'll probably never see actual full-scale implementation of WiS (even Legion starts to look unlikely), it's double extra meaningless. The above quote by Jenn was just a good example of a masterful trolling at which we as well may close the thread as redundant.


Look at yourself, i mean really. You accuse me of "trolling" (ie being not genuine aka lying in order to get an emotional response from someone for the purpose of self entertainment) simply because I'm telling you the truth when you don't want to hear it.

The truth here is that I am winning already, even if I were prone to trolling I wouldn't need to lol, CCP is firmly not doing "in EVe WiS" now or in the foreseeable future.
I'm not telling you this so that you feel bad. I telling you this because it's true, I don't get any jollies from the idea that some human being with internet access that I will probably never meet is sitting at a computer being mad because a game company won't modify their software in a way he desires lol.

TL;DR, I'm not the crazy one here, it's you lot.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#690 - 2015-04-01 15:59:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
TL;DR, I'm not the crazy one here, it's you lot.
This is what you relish saying over and over again. Roll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#691 - 2015-04-01 16:00:15 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jade Blackwind wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
If WiS types were the more realistic sort, you all might have been able to make a cogent and compelling argument that would have not only swayed skeptics like me, but also CCP. That you cannot demonstrates that the biggest roadblock to WiS isn't folks like me, or CCP, or even financial and technical reality, but rather the unrealistic and denial-ridden people who currently support it.
/thread Lol
No. Jenn aSide steadfastly sticks to what ever they perceive as more macho or in their own interests. Their ego prevents them from accepting the many arguments set forth in this and many other threads.

They are here to make a lot of words and feel self important, not actually achieve anything. "Forum PVP" is their purpose of writing here and as such I pretty much always ignore them and often read the others posts more throughly. They are like a barometer, if they are replying to someone then there is probably something good that is being trolled.

So, not /thread at all.


If it makes you feel better to ignore what I'm telling you and pretend that it's trolling, feel free. But deep down you know you're lying about it.

Oh and on a side note, a sense of responsibility and self reliance (even in a video game), and not believing that people who voluntarily choose to play a video game are some how 'victims' of something isn't being 'macho', it's being an adult. You may give it a swing someday, you might even get the less than 150 account holder (out of 400,000 potential supporters) who voted for you for CSM to help you.

Yes that last part was an intended swipe, can't lie about that Twisted
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#692 - 2015-04-01 16:02:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
TL;DR, I'm not the crazy one here, it's you lot.
This is what you relish saying over and over again. Roll


I relish speaking the truth? Who would have figured that?


Again, if blaming me for your self inflected problem helps you, I am happy to serve. Hell, we may even meet in some form of EVE WiS one day, at which point I will sever your avatars head with my plasma sword while I'm wearing a kilt, for there can only be one (Jen).

Hashtag HighlanderReference.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#693 - 2015-04-01 16:53:36 UTC
Roll Kids.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#694 - 2015-04-01 17:06:25 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Roll Kids.


Lol, I'm most likely older than you.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#695 - 2015-04-01 17:08:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Roll Kids.
Lol, I'm most likely older than you.
Not mentally. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#696 - 2015-04-01 17:14:53 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Roll Kids.
Lol, I'm most likely older than you.
Not mentally. Blink


It's the height of delusion that you actually believe that, when it's you who can't accept the reality that not only is WiS not happening (it is not, as far as CCP has continued to indicate) but that WiS might actually be something that is bad for a game like EVE online (a game that attracts minimalist anti-immersion gamers, such as myself).

You'd be an asset to this community were it not for your internal personality issues. It's only those issues that hold you back (which is actually true off most people, it's not "the man keeping the people down", it's people not facing their personal problems). Face those issues and hell, I'd vote for you for the next CSM.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#697 - 2015-04-01 17:18:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Roll Kids.
Lol, I'm most likely older than you.
Not mentally. Blink
(Going around the mulberry bush again)
I'd vote for you for the next CSM.
You can go dig up the post, I said before the results were announced that I will not run again next year win or lose. The Fozzie Logic SOV that is on the table with feedback being ignored I am glad to have no part of that.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Balthasar Dorian
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#698 - 2015-04-08 07:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthasar Dorian
Unezka Turigahl wrote:

A WiS that is worth a crap would end up being its own game requiring its own budget and its own team. CCP realized this and so they did exactly that - put together a new team and made DUST. Unfortunately they didn't release it on the platform their player base is on. And it's a FPS, not particularly interesting, to me, and maybe not to the average EVE player either. Additionally it looks like they made it a PITA just like EVE, with skills and gear and money whatnot. That is not what I am looking for if I want to play a FPS. I'm guessing that is not what most FPS players are looking for. And a FPS in general is probably not what WiS advocates are looking for. Not sure who CCP was trying to cater to with DUST. Legion will be on PC at least but other than that it seems it will be the same game as DUST? It might have been cool to see a planet in Thera opened up for exploration on foot and ground vehicles. A massive open landscape free for all like DayZ on a MMO-sized world. Go down in a shuttle hunting for goods then try to slip them back to empire. It would have to be split up into multiple shards though. Instanced. Naughty word when it comes to EVE.


Project Legion would be incredible if it took the current avatars and gave us a planet to walk/roam around on. Maybe even a third person fighting mechanic similar to the way spaceships fight in EVE? If it needed to be launched from an entirely separate folder to prevent it from being a resource hog then so be it.

Would be amazing to see your wallet and assets in game as well to give a sense of continuity. Then launch collected goods up to the customs office just like how planetary interaction functions in EVE. Then after a few hours of fighting on foot, you can log out of Legion and then log back into EVE to collect the good via spaceship. Slightly annoying but probably a lot less technically demanding than what they tried with WiS.

I'd also like to see exploring and fighting inside derelict spaceship hulls but that might require direct connection to Tranquility server.

If Legion is the same game as DUST then they are wasting their time. That game appeals to a completely different type of player and wouldn't interest their already sizable EVE fanbase. The MMO must grow!!
Balthasar Dorian
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#699 - 2015-04-08 07:13:33 UTC
Cahir Ceallach wrote:
When we have WIS and Planet Walking integrate in EVE we can explore and fight against NPC to get nice faction stuff for our ship.


Maybe even special materials that can only be found exploring specific locations planetside. That way the walking and shooting becomes economically meaningful.
Balthasar Dorian
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#700 - 2015-04-08 07:19:07 UTC
Ravnik wrote:
WIS will only work if you can walkup to ppl you are at war with and blast them in the face...and it gets included on your killboard.
Otherwise...no thanks Evil


That would be pretty awesome. Though there would still need to be concord protected non-pvp zones or we could NEVER go afk without logging out Shocked