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Walking in stations

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Author
Woodman2
Templar Knights of EVE
#1 - 2015-02-14 18:06:08 UTC
I was gone from EVE for a couple of years due to my health, I am now back and wondering what happened to walking around in the station? It was the next big thing when I left.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#2 - 2015-02-14 18:09:00 UTC
We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features.
Woodman2
Templar Knights of EVE
#3 - 2015-02-14 18:11:27 UTC
Thanks Abrazzar, makes sense.
Vyl Vit
#4 - 2015-02-14 19:18:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
I love seeing this subject line! Usually starts out kinda slow, then....
...fizzles out altogether. Big smile

EDIT: Kinda like...WiS....wooOOOOoooOOOooooo.......

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2015-02-14 19:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Abrazzar wrote:
We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features.

It's a little more complicated than that.

The rundown...

- CCP spent more than a year developing it
- While developing it, CCP basically ignored a whole bunch of "little" problems and imbalances throughout the game
- the half-joking phrase "in 18 months" was coined from the above points (because that was how long we were told before CCP would get back to working on "other things")
- CCP kept praising and hyping up WiS (Walking in Station)
- Everyone hated the Dramiel.

- The Captain's Quarters was finally released.
------ We got one room (Minmatar) and no access to the rest of the station (because no content had actually been made).
------ It was both buggy and a major resource hog (some video cards overheated)
------ The Captain's Quarters was "not optional." In fact... the original station view was removed entirely. If you disabled the Captains Quarters you would be given a static image of your ship in the hanger (see: no station spinning).
------ The Captain's Quarters was revealed mostly to be a R&D thing for the future... and players were all being used as "beta-testers."
- Microtransactions were introduced.
------ The Microtransaction items costed way more than "micro-amounts" (there was a Monocle that costed about $70 USD in PLEX... shirts and pants were no better).
- A DEV leaked an internal newsletter where various other DEVs were discussing "gold ammo" type items (see: items you paid for via microtransactions that would give you tangible boosts in the game).

- Players revolted.
------ The forums were filled with flames and rage and ranting.
------ A "substantial" amount of players threatened to unsubscribe (I think it was 10% of the total playerbase)
------ Players went to Jita and began to shoot at a monument indefinitely to show their discontent.
- CCP stayed stubbornly (and infuriatingly) silent about the whole thing.
------ The CSM was requested by CCP to come to Iceland and talk about the situation.
- When CCP made their first public statement about the whole thing they attempted to rationalize it.
------ Players got angrier.

- CCP acquiesced.
------- An apology was written by CCP's CEO himself (though, there are rumors that it may have been ghostwritten).
------- Players were promised that "gold ammo" type items would never become a thing. Microtransactions would be limited strictly to "vanity" stuff or things that were already available in some form (basically, "lateral benefits")
------- A new hanger view was made... just like the old one.
------- Captains Quarters view was made "optional."
------- CCP promised to refocus their efforts on space related stuff and work on all the "little things" that players had been basically begging for for almost 2 years.
- CCP silently put WiS on the backburner.

- The Crucible Expansion was released 6 months later.
- Players rejoice.
- Many "little" things are fixed and/or polished.
- Some interesting things are introduced (i.e. Attack Battlecruisers)
- Some old favorites were brought back (i.e. engine trails)
- The current ship rebalancing efforts more or less started here.
- Subscriptions hit an all time high (at the time).

- Today...
------ WiS still brings up some bad memories.
------ It probably IS being worked on... somewhere in the background.
------ the biggest problem (that I see) is making it fit into the larger EVE universe without taking away from the space part of it.



TLDR; Walking in Station was delayed/shelved due to a whole combination of events (poor planning, poor investments, poor execution, poor public relations) that led to an explosion of frustration among the playerbase (which had been building for some time). People are still sensitive about the whole thing.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#6 - 2015-02-14 20:13:35 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features.


The arrogance of the forum people still astonishes me after all this time. If CCP caved every time you people had a tantrum this game would be radically altered on a daily basis.

The truth of the matter is that CCP developed a flawed system that was never going to be viable and used that particular player meltdown to back out of it with some dignity left. Much better to let the player base believe that they have some input in how the game should be than admit they wasted years developing a broken mechanic.

Win/win for CCP.

Mr Epeen Cool
Serene Repose
#7 - 2015-02-14 20:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Mr Epeen wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features.


The arrogance of the forum people still astonishes me after all this time. If CCP caved every time you people had a tantrum this game would be radically altered on a daily basis.

The truth of the matter is that CCP developed a flawed system that was never going to be viable and used that particular player meltdown to back out of it with some dignity left. Much better to let the player base believe that they have some input in how the game should be than admit they wasted years developing a broken mechanic.

Win/win for CCP.

Mr Epeen Cool
The punchline is "certain" players still think they had something to do with it.
YAY CSM! The one ring that binds us all!!!

Even if you take the above guy's "blow by blow" account (not you Sir Epeen) he's left out ship spinning was returned as an after thought. The "you can disable WiS" thing being slightly .... anyway, now it's digital legend.

Remember: CCP is a corporation. It doesn't make policy based on self-aggrandized meta-gamer egos. (read it and weep)

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Aston Martin DB5
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-02-14 20:19:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Aston Martin DB5
They just didn't deliver what they promised many moons ago. What we received was one captain's quarter at the time (gallente if I recall) and when they first announced WIS they talked about social areas for players, bars, mini games etc etc. and the dev team was light years away from developing it. On top of that they just gave players CQ's instead of players earning it through some game mechanic or a purchase ability with in game isk. Poorly planned if you ask me but could of been amazingStraight
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#9 - 2015-02-14 20:24:54 UTC
Don't forget that they did develop and demo WiS tech that might not have been bad, but then threw it all away in favour of beta testing WoD. Incarna had nothing to do with WiS.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

Serene Repose
#10 - 2015-02-14 20:27:52 UTC
Aston Martin DB5 wrote:
They just didn't deliver what they promised many moons ago. What we received was one captain's quarter at the time (gallente if I recall) and when they first announced WIS they talked about social areas for players, bars, mini games etc etc. and the dev team was light years away from developing it. On top of that they just gave players CQ's instead of players earning through some game mechanic or purchasing it through in game isk. Poorly planned if you ask me but could of been amazingStraight
Could HAVE been amazing? People speculating on this forum isn't CCP saying they're doing something. All of the above talk was from this forum. There is NO evidence CCP told the world they were going to create a game within a game, bars/social areas...just didn't happen. NOR was the idea of purchasing the Officers Quarters ever mentioned or even considered. The idea, you think it's neat you buy something so you're special? Go play LOTRO.

All of this had to do with a few vocal idiots clamboring for something they think would be "cool" that most EVE players tried to slap down as silly, "Hey! Why can't we walk in stations?." It's the same people in LOTRO who want eagles for mounts, cause they saw a movie. "Hey. Devs OWE us THAT!" (Want an example of player suggestions leading a game to ruin, try LOTRO's mounted combat.) CCP never went THAT far. Geez. CCP brought in the new character creator, and toyed with the idea of expanding it - it never got off the drawing board.

Let's see, we have a few more mega-tons of bandwidth left for the revisionists of history. Y'all, what's the hold up?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-02-14 20:28:35 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:

they wasted years developing a broken mechanic.



Mr Epeen Cool



I for one welcome our jovian overlords. Maybe they can figure out how to decontaminate the station for us.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Cahir Ceallach
The Raza.
#12 - 2015-02-14 21:45:18 UTC
Maybe WIS is back, in this year we have 10 expansion in the year :)
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2015-02-14 22:41:20 UTC
We're getting WiS and it's called Legion. It's been sneaked under everyone's noses. Huzzah
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-02-14 23:46:49 UTC
Walking in stations. Waaaa haaaaa. Walking in stations. Big smile Funny.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Dau Katari
Stormsong Scrapyards
#15 - 2015-02-15 00:19:25 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Could HAVE been amazing? People speculating on this forum isn't CCP saying they're doing something. All of the above talk was from this forum. There is NO evidence CCP told the world they were going to create a game within a game, bars/social areas...just didn't happen.

. . .

Let's see, we have a few more mega-tons of bandwidth left for the revisionists of history. Y'all, what's the hold up?


These, from Fanfest 2008, should be under the weight limit.

Early Demo

CCP TorfiFrans Interview with MMORPG.com

Aston Martin DB5
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-02-15 02:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Aston Martin DB5
Serene Repose wrote:
Aston Martin DB5 wrote:
They just didn't deliver what they promised many moons ago. What we received was one captain's quarter at the time (gallente if I recall) and when they first announced WIS they talked about social areas for players, bars, mini games etc etc. and the dev team was light years away from developing it. On top of that they just gave players CQ's instead of players earning through some game mechanic or purchasing it through in game isk. Poorly planned if you ask me but could of been amazingStraight
Could HAVE been amazing? People speculating on this forum isn't CCP saying they're doing something. All of the above talk was from this forum. There is NO evidence CCP told the world they were going to create a game within a game, bars/social areas...just didn't happen. NOR was the idea of purchasing the Officers Quarters ever mentioned or even considered. The idea, you think it's neat you buy something so you're special? Go play LOTRO.

All of this had to do with a few vocal idiots clamboring for something they think would be "cool" that most EVE players tried to slap down as silly, "Hey! Why can't we walk in stations?." It's the same people in LOTRO who want eagles for mounts, cause they saw a movie. "Hey. Devs OWE us THAT!" (Want an example of player suggestions leading a game to ruin, try LOTRO's mounted combat.) CCP never went THAT far. Geez. CCP brought in the new character creator, and toyed with the idea of expanding it - it never got off the drawing board.

Let's see, we have a few more mega-tons of bandwidth left for the revisionists of history. Y'all, what's the hold up?


Slight overkill on the LOTRO analogy. And yes, they had pictures and even videos regarding open areas, bars, and mini games when they first started talking about WIS and showed it to the players years ago. If I recall correctly they hinted at the idea of card games with in-game isk to gamble as well with your so called 'game within a game' mechanic. References provided Blink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E 2008 teaser vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t1SKhdCkHM (2 minute mark) talks about bars and other social aspects of WIS.
Kestrix
Nascent Omega
Pirate Lords of War
#17 - 2015-02-15 02:32:19 UTC
The PvP'ers in this game want to keep it small and have CCP pander totally to them. they are like spoilt children craving mummy's attention all the time and every time mummy tries to do some thing else they have a crying sissy fit until she mollifies them.

Walking in stations was something new, a breath of fresh air for eve online and an opportunity to make the game more appealing to a broader group of potential customers.

The people that objected to "walking in stations" are blind to the fact that making the game more appealing to a broader customer base swells the number of paying customers on the server both giving CCP increased revenue and them more characters to shoot.

I just hope that walking in stations was just put on hold and not canceled all together

Tarpedo
Incursionista
#18 - 2015-02-15 02:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarpedo
CCP management has underestimated importance of RPG elements (avatars) while strategy/PvP part obviously isn't enough to keep players in EVE having 3+ competing spaceship games on the market. Each competitor either has avatars already or will add them during 2015 - EVE will be the only WiS-less spaceship game in 2016. And only one with mandatory subscription fee.

Could be nice to have even embryo form of WiS - common halls in stations with market and crafting terminals, direct trading interface between avatars, mission agents.

As for high cost of development - there is new Korean game which got $2 millions from cosmetic sales during its first week.
Victoria Ramsay
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-02-15 06:07:16 UTC
Tarpedo wrote:
EVE will be the only WiS-less spaceship game in 2016. And only one with mandatory subscription fee.


Sad, but certainly the truth.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#20 - 2015-02-15 06:13:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
At the least, CCP could allow people to invite each other into their captain's quarters.

Other than that, graphical assets could be uploaded by players and quality checked by CCP with the right tools in place.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
... The only tangible value that could be applied to WIS is whether it would generate sufficient real life cash for CCP which is purely opinion at this stage.
Not entirely.
- We know that social games do make money.
- We know that EVE is, "about the people / community."
- We know from CCP stats that despite lack of catering, we have a fairly healthy social player group.

What we can not say for absolute certainty is whether CCP would flesh WiS out sufficiently and in the right ways in order to extend the, "life" / subscription time of current social players and attract a substantial number of other social players.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
... Individuals will have opinions which conflict and two with opposing views might think they're right while both are right. ...
I agree that ship spinning should remain. If people do not have the computers to walk around or want nothing to do with WiS incase they catch space cooties then they should not have it forced upon them.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

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