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Option to disable corp friendly fire.

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Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#121 - 2015-01-16 22:43:29 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
It was a good fix to a dumb rule. The switch to turn it on/off removes the only hesitation I had because of the effect a blanket rules would have on corp free-for-alls and RvB.

Nothing I have read, here, has made me think otherwise but I will follow this thread looking for diamonds in the mud.

As to a tax to have it on? No. I would be willing to consider having a tax or fee everytime you want to CHANGE the settingt excluding the first time when it is set.

m


welp i thought i'd be voting for you but jesus christ

its not a goddamn option as it was presented; its literally check this box or ur dumb
a tax or something would make it an option, risk:reward

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Lugh Crow-Slave
#122 - 2015-01-16 22:45:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Sladislov wrote:
Besides, no real awoxer goes around looking for new players to blow them up. They're only in it for the shiny kills.

Just had two awoxers get into a corp in my alliance a killed a group of ventures and barges. people are in it for the kills regardless of how shiny they are.

however all parties involved from those who were ganked to the recruiter learned from the experience and there entire corp as well as out of corp members had fun for a few hours trying to hunt them down.

it basically became an alliance wide event and was good fun to be had like an in game event but created dynamically by players.


this system as i have stated before not only removes game play but only puts new players joining corps at risk

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2015-01-16 23:43:00 UTC
I don't think you quite understand how the turn off awox option. While the option is only in the talks at the moment. You have to ask yourself.

What is this option really?

The reality of it, is that many people here fail to understand what the option is. Does this option suddenly disallows players to be unable to shoot their corp members? I don't think it works that way, instead what will end up happening, (most likely) is that now awoxing will be punished the same way, people awox in NPC corps, you destroyed their ship in high sec, well concord destroy's your ship in high sec.

This feature most likely came around with awoxers would play "Going AFK" games in a fully fitted T3 ship that can alpha anything off the field in one shot, then runs and hides some where so that he can't be found. Instead what this means is that if he wishes to do it again, he will have to dock his pod, which means he will have to take a risk of being booted from the corp everytime he docks up and refits.

Now, don't get me wrong, I didn't say I support this idea, my opinions are my own.

But this needless panic thread lacks any reasonable arguments, suggestions, and information.

Basically all the Original poster is doing is creating a thread to induce panic in the eve community, and fails to provide any real facts at all. I'm sorry but I for one don't support such a thread like this existing. I suggest it be locked, and murdered.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Sladislov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#124 - 2015-01-16 23:50:53 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
I don't think you quite understand how the turn off awox option. While the option is only in the talks at the moment. You have to ask yourself.

What is this option really?

The reality of it, is that many people here fail to understand what the option is. Does this option suddenly disallows players to be unable to shoot their corp members? I don't think it works that way, instead what will end up happening, (most likely) is that now awoxing will be punished the same way, people awox in NPC corps, you destroyed their ship in high sec, well concord destroy's your ship in high sec.

This feature most likely came around with awoxers would play "Going AFK" games in a fully fitted T3 ship that can alpha anything off the field in one shot, then runs and hides some where so that he can't be found. Instead what this means is that if he wishes to do it again, he will have to dock his pod, which means he will have to take a risk of being booted from the corp everytime he docks up and refits.

Now, don't get me wrong, I didn't say I support this idea, my opinions are my own.

But this needless panic thread lacks any reasonable arguments, suggestions, and information.

Basically all the Original poster is doing is creating a thread to induce panic in the eve community, and fails to provide any real facts at all. I'm sorry but I for one don't support such a thread like this existing. I suggest it be locked, and murdered.


i suggest u stop posting


the form doesnt matter that much when the underlying principle remains the same

       Sladislov Director of Silly semantics       Broksi Kurth    xXxBlack LegionxXx
Kane Ceres
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-01-17 00:09:25 UTC
Maqari Kinraysuwa wrote:
Make intra-corp PvP trigger a LE or Suspect timer. That way the 'invincible' untanked logi can now be shot at and all you dumb ******* highsec pub shitlords can go back to mining or grinding l4s or whatever you do, instead of trying to **** on an actual interesting form of emergent content.


I would totally get behind this idea if I didn't think awoxing has already been nerfed to hell.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#126 - 2015-01-17 00:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Sladislov wrote:
Besides, no real awoxer goes around looking for new players to blow them up. They're only in it for the shiny kills.

Just had two awoxers get into a corp in my alliance a killed a group of ventures and barges. people are in it for the kills regardless of how shiny they are.

however all parties involved from those who were ganked to the recruiter learned from the experience and there entire corp as well as out of corp members had fun for a few hours trying to hunt them down.

it basically became an alliance wide event and was good fun to be had like an in game event but created dynamically by players.


this system as i have stated before not only removes game play but only puts new players joining corps at risk


Me and some friends have had the exact same experience. It was the most fun these players had had in the game upto that point, brought us all closer together and inspired them onto more PvP antics that they werent interested in before.

The distressing experience ccp describe is likely from players who would be distressed by wardecs and suicide ganks as well. Both of these are also unintuitive game mechanics that noobs dont understand. When will they be axed?

Edit- sorry I mean togglable.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#127 - 2015-01-17 00:29:53 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Sladislov wrote:
Besides, no real awoxer goes around looking for new players to blow them up. They're only in it for the shiny kills.

Just had two awoxers get into a corp in my alliance a killed a group of ventures and barges. people are in it for the kills regardless of how shiny they are.

however all parties involved from those who were ganked to the recruiter learned from the experience and there entire corp as well as out of corp members had fun for a few hours trying to hunt them down.

it basically became an alliance wide event and was good fun to be had like an in game event but created dynamically by players.


this system as i have stated before not only removes game play but only puts new players joining corps at risk


Me and some friends have had the exact same experience. It was the most fun these players had had in the game upto that point, brought us all closer together and inspired them onto more PvP antics that they werent interested in before.

The distressing experience ccp describe is likely from players who would be distressed by wardecs and suicide ganks as well. Both of these are also unintuitive game mechanics that noobs dont understand. When will they be axed?

Edit- sorry I mean togglable.


It's 'distressing' because from a game developer standpoint, their players (and particularly new players) get confused. Everywhere new players are encouraged to join player corporations. But then when they join a noob friendly corp they are targeted by much older players who seem to find joy in ruining the new player's day for no particular reason other than 'tears'.

In the same vein, a corporation should be a place where members can work together and feel 'safe'. Having to distrust your own corpmates may be 'exactly what EVE is about' for some, but it's lethal to EVE as a game. Especially new players shouldn't be thrown into a shark tank with people who would rip them to shreds for funzies and continue to laugh at them as they quit the game forever. People quiting the game over this crap is in nobody's best interest.

Want to continue Awoxing people? Join a low-sec or null-sec corp and Awox to your hearts content. But as usual, this isn't about the mechanic. It's about people losing access to a barrel full of fish which they can no longer shoot. Fish that would grow up to be sharks if you didn't eat them the second they show up.

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#128 - 2015-01-17 00:34:54 UTC
There is naturally disappointment when one loses the ability to partake in a gamestyle one has become capable or even expert in, and there are no doubt those who are quite capable and take pride in their achievements.

"Be the villian" was the marketing drive a few years ago, the marketeers naturally felt that the "gritty" side of EvE would appeal to a certain demographic, and It was in truth quite successful.

However, for every player who behaves in a resposible, thoughtful manner, there are ten who are unable to exibit self restraint.

This has been pointed out for a while, that the excesses of the less restrained wardeccers, Gankers, and awoxers, would create issues, and ruin it for the more thoughtful players who plan and enjoy these gamestyles.

We appear to have reached the point where the bottom line of the company is being harmed. And little sympathy is being given to those who persue these gamestyles, as the excesses for many have become intolerable.

If one wishes to retain these gamestyles, one needs to encourage restraint within your community. The alternative is most likely the removal of the gamestyles you love, and that will make EVE poorer for it.

Please note I am not advocating the removal of any of these gamestyles. They do have a place In EvE
But Whether they remain or not is up to you.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Sladislov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#129 - 2015-01-17 00:41:53 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
[words]



All these posts about the new guys being shot by bitter veterans and comparisons to fish and barrels, go to zkill right now and show me 10 newbros being awoxed. You'll hardly find any, even if you go back to last year.

Simply put no one really wants to blow up new guys in highsec, they dont have blingy ships, they havent played it long enough to understand whats going on and its simply not worth the time. A few pages back a guy compiled a list of all awoxes that happened in a month or so and about 80% of all the awoxes were people older than a year.

To repeat myself, all this option will do is give stupid people immunity from actually having to look over their recruits, a simple api check is more than enough to pick out any bad apples (b-b-but sladislov what about new characters, well unless you play it 100% legit and dont transfer any isk or trade its fairly easy to see its an alt). A year ago when i wanted to join a corp no one even asked for api, nowadays most corps have api checks in place and usually thorough background checks (just opening the damn character sheet and looking at the corp history). I am anally frustrated at this not because the newbros are safe but because the stupid people who just want a ton of people in their highsec taxfarming corp can now do this without any effort. Any 'good' highsec corp will also kind of lose its status as now almost every corp is safe.

       Sladislov Director of Silly semantics       Broksi Kurth    xXxBlack LegionxXx
Kane Ceres
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2015-01-17 00:58:43 UTC
Hi sec does not need to be safer. If you go through with this and effectively stop any high sec awoxing then you had better fix war decs so that people can actually be engaged and not just turn high sec into a pve only zone.
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#131 - 2015-01-17 01:08:12 UTC
Sladislov wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
I don't think you quite understand how the turn off awox option. While the option is only in the talks at the moment. You have to ask yourself.

What is this option really?

The reality of it, is that many people here fail to understand what the option is. Does this option suddenly disallows players to be unable to shoot their corp members? I don't think it works that way, instead what will end up happening, (most likely) is that now awoxing will be punished the same way, people awox in NPC corps, you destroyed their ship in high sec, well concord destroy's your ship in high sec.

This feature most likely came around with awoxers would play "Going AFK" games in a fully fitted T3 ship that can alpha anything off the field in one shot, then runs and hides some where so that he can't be found. Instead what this means is that if he wishes to do it again, he will have to dock his pod, which means he will have to take a risk of being booted from the corp everytime he docks up and refits.

Now, don't get me wrong, I didn't say I support this idea, my opinions are my own.

But this needless panic thread lacks any reasonable arguments, suggestions, and information.

Basically all the Original poster is doing is creating a thread to induce panic in the eve community, and fails to provide any real facts at all. I'm sorry but I for one don't support such a thread like this existing. I suggest it be locked, and murdered.


i suggest u stop posting


the form doesn't matter that much when the underlying principle remains the same


And which underlying principle is there to prove? Hmmm? What kind of thought provoking things does this thread provide, what kind of thinking is it pushing by providing no information at all?

God, and before you tell me to stop posting, at least learn to know the difference between "u" and you.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Lugh Crow-Slave
#132 - 2015-01-17 01:25:54 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:


It's 'distressing' because from a game developer standpoint, their players (and particularly new players) get confused. Everywhere new players are encouraged to join player corporations. But then when they join a noob friendly corp they are targeted by much older players who seem to find joy in ruining the new player's day for no particular reason other than 'tears'.


Problem is they said this was being made optional by the corp meaning it doesn't prevent this from happening. all it does is make it so there is no reason not to just hit accept on every application to your corp

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2015-01-17 02:10:22 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:


It's 'distressing' because from a game developer standpoint, their players (and particularly new players) get confused. Everywhere new players are encouraged to join player corporations. But then when they join a noob friendly corp they are targeted by much older players who seem to find joy in ruining the new player's day for no particular reason other than 'tears'.


Problem is they said this was being made optional by the corp meaning it doesn't prevent this from happening. all it does is make it so there is no reason not to just hit accept on every application to your corp



Uhhh... what?

Come again?






I've done my fair share of ganking, and would gladly do so again if the time and desire coincided at the same point. There is no fun in killing noobs. Ganking, Awoxing, etc is much, much more fun when we can get the bitter vet tears to go along with it.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Lugh Crow-Slave
#134 - 2015-01-17 02:15:36 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:


It's 'distressing' because from a game developer standpoint, their players (and particularly new players) get confused. Everywhere new players are encouraged to join player corporations. But then when they join a noob friendly corp they are targeted by much older players who seem to find joy in ruining the new player's day for no particular reason other than 'tears'.


Problem is they said this was being made optional by the corp meaning it doesn't prevent this from happening. all it does is make it so there is no reason not to just hit accept on every application to your corp



Uhhh... what?

Come again?



Corps will still be able to get new members in and gank them free of concord so this does not protect new players. it only protects corps from needing to trust anyone

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2015-01-17 02:21:40 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:


It's 'distressing' because from a game developer standpoint, their players (and particularly new players) get confused. Everywhere new players are encouraged to join player corporations. But then when they join a noob friendly corp they are targeted by much older players who seem to find joy in ruining the new player's day for no particular reason other than 'tears'.


Problem is they said this was being made optional by the corp meaning it doesn't prevent this from happening. all it does is make it so there is no reason not to just hit accept on every application to your corp



Uhhh... what?

Come again?



Corps will still be able to get new members in and gank them free of concord so this does not protect new players. it only protects corps from needing to trust anyone



Wow... I just felt brain cells die.....

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#136 - 2015-01-17 02:34:40 UTC
Interesting to read since my last post here.
After reading the oft touted meeting minutes on thing is even more clear now than before and to be honest it trumps any thing and every argument we as players could post.

$$$$$

Did I mention cash money.

$$$$$

You know the cold hard real life cash that CCP uses to pay for devs, artists, computers for them, servers for us and the list goes on. Any company that cannot or will not adjust to keep the majority of their paying customers will soon find themselves on the bankrupt and out of business list.

If CCP thinks any in game activity be it high sec AWOXing, suicide ganking or running missions is threatening the real cash bottom line then it needs to be changed removed from the game.

A question and this is hypothetical
You control CCP do you keep high sec AWOXing in game and risk losing the majority of your paying customers?
Or do you remove high sec AWOXing and risk losing a very small minority of your paying players?

To a smart business manager the answer to this one is easy, you cater to the majority and keep them in the game.
Then you take the money you have and work to find ways to give the minority something that will keep them in the game.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#137 - 2015-01-17 02:35:19 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:

Wow... I just felt brain cells die.....

If there is a check box that disables friendly fire then yes, only new players are at risk.

The brain cells dying are in your head.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#138 - 2015-01-17 02:48:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
TigerXtrm wrote:


It's 'distressing' because from a game developer standpoint, their players (and particularly new players) get confused. Everywhere new players are encouraged to join player corporations. But then when they join a noob friendly corp they are targeted by much older players who seem to find joy in ruining the new player's day for no particular reason other than 'tears'.


Wardecs. Suicide ganking.

Both are more common, and the former is by FAR more detrimental to the new player experience and a FAR bigger reason why new players dont stick around. I have personally been the cause of tens of players, maybe more, quitting through the war dec mechanic.

Every argument against AWOXing applies directly to war decs and suicide ganking. New players are confused by a lot of EVE's rules that are corner stones to hi-sec competition. At some point you will realise EVE is different. Thats why its so unintuitive to players who come from other games. You might just say, EVE isnt for everyone.

TigerXtrm wrote:

In the same vein, a corporation should be a place where members can work together and feel 'safe'. Having to distrust your own corpmates may be 'exactly what EVE is about' for some, but it's lethal to EVE as a game. Especially new players shouldn't be thrown into a shark tank with people who would rip them to shreds for funzies and continue to laugh at them as they quit the game forever. People quiting the game over this crap is in nobody's best interest.


Corp theft. Recruitment scams. Read all of the above.

The GAME is the shark tank.

TigerXtrm wrote:

Want to continue Awoxing people? Join a low-sec or null-sec corp and Awox to your hearts content. But as usual, this isn't about the mechanic. It's about people losing access to a barrel full of fish which they can no longer shoot. Fish that would grow up to be sharks if you didn't eat them the second they show up.


No. This, for me, is about the pool of high sec corps being filled with tripe and the actual good corps out there being made even less visible to the new players looking for them.

You think the NPE is bad now? just wait till every corp in the advert finder is filled with the likes of players that have been described as so 'toxic' that the vast majority of players would rather minimise npc corp chat than read their literally mind-blowing ignorance. And these corps will actively recruit new players, not because they give a crap about the new players or desire to teach them anything, but because they can farm risk free isk from them. and why not?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#139 - 2015-01-17 02:57:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Donnachadh wrote:

A question and this is hypothetical
You control CCP do you keep high sec AWOXing in game and risk losing the majority of your paying customers?
Or do you remove high sec AWOXing and risk losing a very small minority of your paying players?

To a smart business manager the answer to this one is easy, you cater to the majority and keep them in the game.
Then you take the money you have and work to find ways to give the minority something that will keep them in the game.



What players will be lost if the game stays THE SAME?

The same players we've always been losing for 12 years?
The players that without the game grew for 10 years straight?

There is no evidence to suggest that the recent rumored recession of subs has anything to do with AWOXing. More than likely it was the 'blue donut' {the opposite of AWOXing lol) that did that.

While CCP may have a financial agenda behind this change, your hypothetical questions was based upon a gross misconception.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#140 - 2015-01-17 03:17:57 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:


What players will be lost if the game stays THE SAME?

The same players we've always been losing for 12 years?
The players that without the game grew for 10 years straight?

There is no evidence to suggest that the recent rumored recession of subs has anything to do with AWOXing. More than likely it was the 'blue donut' {the opposite of AWOXing lol) that did that.

While CCP may have a financial agenda behind this change, your hypothetical questions was based upon a gross misconception.

The only players they will lose are those that join corporations without risk and get bored, those that enjoyed awoxing activities and those that don't like their playing field narrowing down with dumbed down mechanics.

So yeah it's not just like you said, it's worse than that. For CCP to keep idiots in game they need to really dumb it down and make it completely like wow.

Problem is that at that point EVERYONE who is playing eve for what it is or was will be gone.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.