These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Option to disable corp friendly fire.

First post First post
Author
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2015-01-16 13:04:24 UTC
Tbh I feel ccp are not going to have it so you can't even shoot you corpmates in highsec. It will likley come in the form of if you want to shoot him there will be concequences to your actions such as suspect timers or even concord......

Still I think it's a bad decision to remove AWOXing as it is part of what makes EVE eve

So Much Space

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2015-01-16 13:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
It's already not a thing in NPC corps. CCP want to make player corps more attractive. And no, allowing awoxing in NPC corps wouldn't be a good idea, ever.


I strongly suspect those falling for this would fall for a fake duel too. I doubt much of value has been lost - except the completely new ganker who is impossible to vet correctly and thus barred from decent corps - which is the very bar ccp wants to lift....
Stacy Lone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2015-01-16 14:40:08 UTC
Capqu wrote:

This would remove corp awoxing in nullsec as well as highsec, which I'm sure isn't the intention.

It is the intention, and it's fine.

Corps need more way to protect themselves from awoxing. being paranoid and not letting members in until you know their mother, dog and medical records is not fun.

It especially does not retain new players.

There is ways to grief in EVE, and it's fine. Want to gank someone? Go for it. There is a simple counter to it: Tank your ship and don#t transport to many goods.

Shooting a corp member in space: Not fun, as one can not shield himself against it. there is no counter, except playing alone. Playing alone isn't fun, so people leave.


People need to be able to play together without getting wrecked by a single awoxer 8at least in high sec - if you want to shoot corp mates in low/null, do it, but you can do that after this change anyways).


Awoxing shouldn#t be removed - at least not entirely. But there are forms of awoxing that have gotten way out of control. everything needs to have a counter, and this is a counter against one form of awoxing. If people don't play together, they have little reason to stay in the game.

The over-abundance of awoxing and scamming is what hinders EVE, not what brings it forward.


If you enter low or null sec, you get a warning that it's dangerous. You can balance risk vs. reward. You doN#t need to go there if you doN#t want the risk, and if you go there you can use scouts and prepare yourself against getting killed. Use a covops or ceptor to stay out of trouble, for example.

But getting in a corp to play together with someone else shoud not pose an immediate risk to you. It just drives ppl. away. I know of many ppl who really like EVE, but just want to be able to play together with others, and don't want all that paranoid crap. They all have no problem with risk and wouldn#t mind getting blown up in low or null. But if you can#t even get into a high sec corp to get to know others and find ppl to play with without alway thinking about how you could loose your ship to the corpmate that nearby any moment, then it's not fun anymore, it just drags down.

I don#t say that AWOXing should be impossible. If you give someone access to your corp wallet and he empties it: Your fault. But basic player interaction inside a corp should be possible without any immediate danger.

Currently, it is safer to stay in an NPC corp then tpo go into a player corp. That discourages teamplay. Discouraging teamplay has never been healthy for an MMO, ever.



Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#84 - 2015-01-16 14:41:55 UTC
Capqu wrote:
This was announced on stream. The option to disable friendly fire for your corp.


This would remove corp awoxing in nullsec as well as highsec, which I'm sure isn't the intention.




i mean like how? in null sec you just shoot and thats it ... there is no concord o_O?
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#85 - 2015-01-16 14:43:30 UTC
it's good thing for hi sec, corps will be much more open for people Lol
Sladislov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#86 - 2015-01-16 14:53:04 UTC
Stacy Lone wrote:

It is the intention, and it's fine.

Corps need more way to protect themselves from awoxing. being paranoid and not letting members in until you know their mother, dog and medical records is not fun.

It especially does not retain new players.

There is ways to grief in EVE, and it's fine. Want to gank someone? Go for it. There is a simple counter to it: Tank your ship and don#t transport to many goods.

Shooting a corp member in space: Not fun, as one can not shield himself against it. there is no counter, except playing alone. Playing alone isn't fun, so people leave.


People need to be able to play together without getting wrecked by a single awoxer 8at least in high sec - if you want to shoot corp mates in low/null, do it, but you can do that after this change anyways).


Awoxing shouldn#t be removed - at least not entirely. But there are forms of awoxing that have gotten way out of control. everything needs to have a counter, and this is a counter against one form of awoxing. If people don't play together, they have little reason to stay in the game.

The over-abundance of awoxing and scamming is what hinders EVE, not what brings it forward.


If you enter low or null sec, you get a warning that it's dangerous. You can balance risk vs. reward. You doN#t need to go there if you doN#t want the risk, and if you go there you can use scouts and prepare yourself against getting killed. Use a covops or ceptor to stay out of trouble, for example.

But getting in a corp to play together with someone else shoud not pose an immediate risk to you. It just drives ppl. away. I know of many ppl who really like EVE, but just want to be able to play together with others, and don't want all that paranoid crap. They all have no problem with risk and wouldn#t mind getting blown up in low or null. But if you can#t even get into a high sec corp to get to know others and find ppl to play with without alway thinking about how you could loose your ship to the corpmate that nearby any moment, then it's not fun anymore, it just drags down.

I don#t say that AWOXing should be impossible. If you give someone access to your corp wallet and he empties it: Your fault. But basic player interaction inside a corp should be possible without any immediate danger.

Currently, it is safer to stay in an NPC corp then tpo go into a player corp. That discourages teamplay. Discouraging teamplay has never been healthy for an MMO, ever.





How do you mean?

All you need to do to keep out an awoxer is just check his killboard and/or ask for his api, if he has suspicious activity then you just dont let him in.

Only stupid people get awoxed. There are a myriad of ways to stop awoxing, and with the introduction of the 'expel' option all you need to do once you know someone will awox or already awoxed and is in your corp is to just hit a button and wait a day.

       Sladislov Director of Silly semantics       Broksi Kurth    xXxBlack LegionxXx

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2015-01-16 14:57:35 UTC
Lol. The counter to awoxing is to impose artificial restraints on the game is it? ha ha. Not kill the awoxer back?


wow....

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Sladislov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#88 - 2015-01-16 15:02:33 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Lol. The counter to awoxing is to impose artificial restraints on the game is it? ha ha. Not kill the awoxer back?


wow....


As if any of these highsec pubs have ever pvp'd before

       Sladislov Director of Silly semantics       Broksi Kurth    xXxBlack LegionxXx

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2015-01-16 15:05:15 UTC
Sladislov wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Lol. The counter to awoxing is to impose artificial restraints on the game is it? ha ha. Not kill the awoxer back?


wow....


As if any of these highsec pubs have ever pvp'd before



Good time to learn.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2015-01-16 15:09:52 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Kenrailae wrote:
Sladislov wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Lol. The counter to awoxing is to impose artificial restraints on the game is it? ha ha. Not kill the awoxer back?


wow....


As if any of these highsec pubs have ever pvp'd before



Good time to learn.



Yes, let me try and kill someone behind a concord protected invincible logi wall which would take two dozen T3s to break.




More to the point, there is no API trail on a a fresh toon - are they just banned from joining corps now*? Those letting in people with "killboards a mile long" will certainly fall for other tactics so I honestly see no problem here.



*speaking of, I understood alt recycling was only bannable to avoid a SS issue - NOT to hide the toon history. I may be wrong, I've never done it.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#91 - 2015-01-16 15:12:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
If thats what its really about, catering to the masses of carebears, then EVE has pulled/is going to pull an 'ultima online'.

If i ever believe thats whats happening, i will be QQing.

But you still havent said why YOU are in favour of removing it. You still havent answered my question.


And I'm not going to, because I've answered this same question dozens of times and running over old ground makes me want to stick my **** in a blender.

Thread reported for redundancy.


Then it'd be appreciated if you didnt go round telling people they cant post in a thread when you are the one unwilling to bring anything to the table.

k bye

@afkalt

already said, you dont need to make AWOXing a concordable offense to get rid of risk free RR.

not to mention thats not at all why its being removed.

Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
it's good thing for hi sec, corps will be much more open for people Lol


This is not a good thing. They will be much more open to people because theres no reason to not grab as many members as possible and treat them like cash cows.

This could have been adequately addressed by corp-lites. But now because corps will be spammed by everyone and their alts, actual good corps that are active and engage their members will be even harder to find.


to steal a word from nevyn: This change makes corps cheap!

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Sladislov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#92 - 2015-01-16 15:15:52 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Sladislov wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
Lol. The counter to awoxing is to impose artificial restraints on the game is it? ha ha. Not kill the awoxer back?


wow....


As if any of these highsec pubs have ever pvp'd before



Good time to learn.



Yes, let me try and kill someone behind a concord protected invincible logi wall which would take two dozen T3s to break.




More to the point, there is no API trail on a a fresh toon - are they just banned from joining corps now*? Those letting in people with "killboards a mile long" will certainly fall for other tactics so I honestly see no problem here.



*speaking of, I understood alt recycling was only bannable to avoid a SS issue - NOT to hide the toon history. I may be wrong, I've never done it.


Fresh toons aren't that easy to awox on because you usually on train them up a few weeks,

I also 100% agree that neutral RR while you're corp killing should be given a suspect flag or at least be able to be shot by the corp, makes things a lot fairer

       Sladislov Director of Silly semantics       Broksi Kurth    xXxBlack LegionxXx

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2015-01-16 15:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
You can train up a dangerous stratios pilot in about a fortnight/three weeks (cant remember exactly*), and thats massive overkill.


@Daichi Yamato I'm aware of that, but currently the notion of fighting back is laughable. Plus it would be a nightmare logistically for non awoxing to start inheriting flags all over the place in the event you RR someone who accidentally shot a corpmate/webbed a buddy into warp.


I still maintain nothing of value was lost - but something of value (newbs being ok to enter corps) was gained. Idiots will still die, people will still find interesting ways to kill people.


It's being removed because a pretty small, niche plyer group were making GOOD player corp access all but impossible for new starts. We dont want new starts staying in NPC corps and we dont want new starts going to crappy corps.



* <13 days for the minimums for a full neut stratios with geckos. Plenty to trainwreck unsuspecting stuff in highsec.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#94 - 2015-01-16 15:26:04 UTC
- Safety settings

- i dont think AWOXing is not valuable. Adds responsibility and consequences to actions.

- i think its going to be even harder to find a good corp. Theres going to be a flood of corps that just want players to pay corp tax and a flood of NPC corp players who will want the cheaper tax.

Get wardecced? swap corp. Theres going to be thousands, and its not like they are going to reject you or even look at your app.

Good corps get obscured after this change.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2015-01-16 15:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
We'll have to agree to disagree - tax evasion is best served as a one man corp thing anyway. I still disagree with consequences and responsibility - a clean alt can be lethal in a little over a fortnight. How can you see that coming? Why should someone trying to give a home to a new start be nailed to the wall for it?

It's stupid. The only sensible option for risk mitigation is to NOT allow them in, ever. It's a straight up shutout to new guys.

Note that prolific, same toon gankers are of course easy to spot but that fact it is literally impossible to catch a fresh rolled one....where's the reward to that risk?

There are many ways dumb players will still get killed - duels, baited into fullspawned mission with tackle at 0, offering reps that suddenly stop as the room is triggered...loads of ways to get people killed. Just needs a little more creativity and allows attentive players a fighting chance at stopping it instead of a sucker punch they could literally never have seen coming.
Sladislov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#96 - 2015-01-16 15:45:11 UTC
Training up tons of one-month alts and then discarding them is a bannable offense.

       Sladislov Director of Silly semantics       Broksi Kurth    xXxBlack LegionxXx

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#97 - 2015-01-16 15:56:16 UTC
To turn one of CCP's points back on itself,

Why are people accepting new players if the risks arent worth the rewards?

They arent being shut out.

Quote:
We'll have to agree to disagree

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2015-01-16 16:10:29 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Sladislov wrote:
Training up tons of one-month alts and then discarding them is a bannable offense.



It is to avoid security status problems I do not know if that extends to awoxing - as I have never tried (recycling).
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#99 - 2015-01-16 16:19:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
Mario Putzo wrote:
Livonian wrote:
...words...

Step your game up son.


lol, do you have any idea to whom you are talking? Livonian's game is so far above yours that you have to take a space elevator into orbit to even catch a glimpse of him.

I am sad to see awoxing go. It has been an integral part of the Eve-O universe for so long its hard to imagine the game without it. But I understand why CCP is making this decision. Clearly they want to increase new player retention. And getting your **** awoxed on day 12 doesn't typically help with that.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2015-01-16 16:19:41 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Yes, let me try and kill someone behind a concord protected invincible logi wall which would take two dozen T3s to break.




More to the point, there is no API trail on a a fresh toon - are they just banned from joining corps now*? Those letting in people with "killboards a mile long" will certainly fall for other tactics so I honestly see no problem here.



*speaking of, I understood alt recycling was only bannable to avoid a SS issue - NOT to hide the toon history. I may be wrong, I've never done it.



Oh My, I do believe we have a winner.

FINALLY, one of you have actually listed problems:

neutral RR IS a problem. Using Duel's to bait, IS a problem. THOSE are things that need to be fixed, especially when this crap goes on in or next too Noob systems. THIS stuff is a problem. Awoxing and ganking are NOT.


No, no API trail on a fresh character is NOT a problem. Toon cycling IS a problem. Again, THIS is something that needs fixed, not the risk of letting new people into your corp.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal