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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Option to disable corp friendly fire.

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Author
Kane Ceres
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#161 - 2015-01-17 15:32:49 UTC
To anyone thinking that this is going to save new players and get people out of npc corps you are sorely wrong. All this will do is make reverse safaris much more common ( have a corp enable friendly Fire invite people) and would actually likely discourage people joining corps just as much as allowing awoxing as is.

This change just feels out of the spirit of Eve.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#162 - 2015-01-17 15:40:23 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Currently all we have to go on is

"Corps will be able to disable friendly fire"

a lot of people are assuming what this means but we don't know any of the details


I'd be willing to bet ISK that a corporation with its AWOX settings turned to "Disable" will still be vulnerable to suicide ganks by corp members rather than the ships becoming untargetable and/or unshootable/invincible to corp members, especially since that would almost certainly make it equally impossible to use logi on them.



but will there be a downside to doing it will there be a reason not to do it other than recruitment scams or in corp pvp
Mario Putzo
#163 - 2015-01-17 15:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Maqari Kinraysuwa wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
All these folks complaining about losing easy ganks.

To bad you will now have to put effort into it.

Join a corp, become a director, switch option off, gank ceo, steal as much as you can.


Your killboard looks like it could use some easy ganks, maybe you should consider highsec awoxing.



KB stats are meaningless when I just sit in station making bank.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#164 - 2015-01-17 16:55:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:

You must admit - or even if you don't want to admit it you must realize - that all this so-called tripe you're worried about is already playing EVE even right now. Where are they? They're in the starter NPC corps where the rookies end up, which is the last place they should be. If a change like this gets even 1% of that tripe out of the rookie corps (regardless if they end up in not-rookie NPC corps) then IMO that's a massive victory for new players everywhere. Yes it does mean there will be more nonsense corps and it means that corps might be "cheapened" somewhat (I disagree, but that's not the point) but we've got so many terrible "mining, missioning and manufacturing" corps already that I doubt the difference will really be that noticeable. At the very least, tripe will attract tripe and the wardec corps will find themselves staring at a monumentally larger field of potential prey. In a slightly more ideal scenario those prey corps will be large enough to feel like they can fight rather than dec-evading and continuing to be tripe.

It also means that there will potentially be somewhat fewer voices of risk-aversion in the chat channels where those newbies spend their first impressionable moments meeting people and asking how to fly their ship. Moments that could be better used for guiding them toward the path of pew and/or scooping them up into a corporation that does something other than the ubiquitous "3 Ms".

There will still be vetting and pilot evaluation in highsec's post-awoxing future. Not all "good" corps will turn awoxing off, and the ones that do will still have to evaluate if the pilot they've taken in is worthwhile or tripe.


But we tell all the players that to enjoy the game they need to get into a player run corp, not stay in an NPC corp. So by this point we will be actively encouraging them to play with others that wont provide a 'good' experience. It'd be like they never left an NPC corp as far as social experiences are concerned.

You dont need to remove AWOXing to get noobs away from the tripe and into something socially driven. Corp lites would have done that whilst keeping different types of corps segregated and therefore more visible. And by that i dont mean 'good' and 'bad'. I mean NPC (for my tripe), Purely social (for friends and kickin it in chat) and Asset based (for risk/reward and getting into the sandbox).

You are wrong to think that a larger corp made up of former NPC corp members will be willing to organise and fight (save for perhaps CAS) and youre also wrong to think that it even matters with the guerrilla style warfare that is wardecs.

There are also other ways of dealing with noob corp chat for the NPE that have been suggested on these forums.


Every argument against AWOXing applies to other sandbox content like ganks and decs.
Every benefit put forward from removing AWOXing could be accomplished by other means.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Lugh Crow-Slave
#165 - 2015-01-17 17:30:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Daichi Yamato wrote:

Every argument against AWOXing applies to other sandbox content like ganks and decs.
Every benefit put forward from removing AWOXing could be accomplished by other means.

This^


But i will say if this does go through i will finally start a freighter corp on an alt
(something i have wanted to do since i started eve)


So at least i have something to be happy about... even if it is a hollow happiness
Lugh Crow-Slave
#166 - 2015-01-17 17:35:35 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
I just sit in station making bank.



so this doesn't affect you at all then?
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#167 - 2015-01-17 18:26:29 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Currently all we have to go on is

"Corps will be able to disable friendly fire"

a lot of people are assuming what this means but we don't know any of the details


I'd be willing to bet ISK that a corporation with its AWOX settings turned to "Disable" will still be vulnerable to suicide ganks by corp members rather than the ships becoming untargetable and/or unshootable/invincible to corp members, especially since that would almost certainly make it equally impossible to use logi on them.



but will there be a downside to doing it will there be a reason not to do it other than recruitment scams or in corp pvp


I very severely doubt there will be any sort of "downside" or "penalty" to disabling AWOXing. It will probably be a checkbox somewhere in the corp management window.

Now that I think of it, though, having to navigate the corp management window is pretty much a penalty unto itself.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#168 - 2015-01-17 20:07:04 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
There is no evidence to suggest that the recent rumored recession of subs has anything to do with AWOXing. More than likely it was the 'blue donut' {the opposite of AWOXing lol) that did that.

While CCP may have a financial agenda behind this change, your hypothetical questions was based upon a gross misconception.

And you have NO evidence to support your point of view on this topic.
In fact NONE of us has any evidence to support our point of view.

The simple fact that a change of this type is being publicly discussed by CCP in "official" channels supports the conclusions that CCP is concerned enough about this issue to be working on it instead of the many other things that need to be done.

The fact that those discussions are centered on removing or reducing intra-corp aggression strongly indicates that for some reason they consider it to be detrimental to the future of the game, or to future plans they have for the game.

My questions are not based on a gross misconception. In fact the only misconception here is yours, when you assumed that my questions were anything but what they were stated to be and that is "hypothetical". I do hope you are aware of what that means but just in case you are not here is a link that will help.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hypothetical

My "hypothetical" questions were posted because I simply wondered how you and the others would respond to a specific set of circumstances IF you were in control of CCP.

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.



I would like to hear his take on this to be honest

I agree, I would like to read his comments about this.
However the bottom line still remains the same he works for CCP and whatever they want for this game will be what happens no matter what his personal beliefs are.
Sladislov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#169 - 2015-01-17 20:14:22 UTC
yes because ccp is always right

*cough*

walk in stations

*cough*

aurum

*cough*

       Sladislov Director of Silly semantics       Broksi Kurth    xXxBlack LegionxXx

Lugh Crow-Slave
#170 - 2015-01-17 20:18:42 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:


Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.



I would like to hear his take on this to be honest

I agree, I would like to read his comments about this.
However the bottom line still remains the same he works for CCP and whatever they want for this game will be what happens no matter what his personal beliefs are.


why is it that people keep thinking i want to hear his side because i think it will stop this from becoming a thing.


I want to hear it because i believe what he said when he wrote that.

so there must be some reasoning behind this that does not take away from the cor principles of eve since as far as i know he is still working with CCP.

this wasn't a come save us from the care bares post it was a request to help us understand
Lugh Crow-Slave
#171 - 2015-01-17 20:30:04 UTC
Sladislov wrote:
yes because ccp is always right

*cough*

walk in stations

*cough*

aurum

*cough*


to be fair had it not been for the backlash at the micro transactions(that stayed) work on WIS would probably have continued

But the massive downsize saw a lot of their dev power loss and the shock of it made them afraid to do anything new for years
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#172 - 2015-01-17 20:40:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
Daichi Yamato wrote:
But we tell all the players that to enjoy the game they need to get into a player run corp, not stay in an NPC corp. So by this point we will be actively encouraging them to play with others that wont provide a 'good' experience. It'd be like they never left an NPC corp as far as social experiences are concerned..

I was part of a carebear corp for awhile that fit any description of a "bad" EVE corp you can think of. After awhile we got bored and tried new things, like WH trips and lowsec roams and even actually fighting during a wardec. Bad corps that stick together long enough can transform into a not so bad corp. That corp is now in a PVP alliance, 'Ive since moved out to null, and I dont think I'd sti'l be playing if I had sat in an NPC corp instead of joining them.

So no its many times not the same as them staying in an NPC corp. Players banding together is always a good thing even if they are barely playing EVE while doing so. And if the cost of that is a few tear harvesting idiots have to put some actual risk into there gameplay then so be it.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#173 - 2015-01-17 20:40:52 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
In fact NONE of us has any evidence to support our point of view.

The simple fact that a change of this type is being publicly discussed by CCP in "official" channels supports the conclusions that CCP is concerned enough about this issue to be working on it instead of the many other things that need to be done.

The fact that those discussions are centered on removing or reducing intra-corp aggression strongly indicates that for some reason they consider it to be detrimental to the future of the game, or to future plans they have for the game.


Do I really have to wave the CSM minutes around again? They specifically discuss why they want to make this change. They literally spell it out in black and white - black letters on a white background on Page 74 of the PDF.
Mario Putzo
#174 - 2015-01-17 20:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
I just sit in station making bank.



so this doesn't affect you at all then?



Nope but its fun to see the whine from folks who will lose out on easy ganks. Way better thanthe tears from folks they gank thats for sure.
Sladislov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#175 - 2015-01-17 20:46:41 UTC
I like how a guy who barely undocks and spends more time on the forums than actually flying spaceships can talk about ganks.


Its finding the right combination of rich and stupid and then trying to join the corp; trying to weasel your way through any suspicions he has. A friend of mine awoxes with all the medals he has ever gotten from awoxing on public display. Basically he's walking around with a giant signpost saying "AWOXER" on him and STILL people invite him into their corps.

       Sladislov Director of Silly semantics       Broksi Kurth    xXxBlack LegionxXx

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#176 - 2015-01-17 20:49:32 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
I just sit in station making bank.
so this doesn't affect you at all then?
Nope but its fun to see the whine from folks who will lose out on easy ganks. Way better thanthe tears from folks they gank thats for sure.
If you're only here to fan the flames, see whining and collect "tears" I must insist that you STFU and GTFO this thread.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#177 - 2015-01-17 20:50:56 UTC
Sladislov wrote:
I like how a guy who barely undocks and spends more time on the forums than actually flying spaceships can talk about ganks.


Its finding the right combination of rich and stupid and then trying to join the corp; trying to weasel your way through any suspicions he has. A friend of mine awoxes with all the medals he has ever gotten from awoxing on public display. Basically he's walking around with a giant signpost saying "AWOXER" on him and STILL people invite him into their corps.


Lol i knew a guy who did something like that but he put all the comments of the people he awoxed into his Bio
Mario Putzo
#178 - 2015-01-17 20:51:29 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
I just sit in station making bank.
so this doesn't affect you at all then?
Nope but its fun to see the whine from folks who will lose out on easy ganks. Way better thanthe tears from folks they gank thats for sure.
If you're only here to fan the flames, see whining and collect "tears" I must insist that you STFU and GTFO this thread.


No.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#179 - 2015-01-17 20:59:12 UTC
This thread:

Two guys impersonating Chicken Little and replying to everyone else as if people are listening to them.
Iain Cariaba
#180 - 2015-01-17 21:17:11 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
This thread:

Two guys impersonating Chicken Little and replying to everyone else as if people are listening to them.

You read enough to form that opinion, so obviously you are listening to them.