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[Proteus - January] Recon ships

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Levina Windstar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2014-12-18 15:27:15 UTC
I like the undetectable feature but I think this will be wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too OP in WH.

CCP plz... think about WH too! :/

"I can make billions using my mouth ...

... and sometimes when I talk, too" --- Solecist Project
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-12-18 15:28:16 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

CURSE

Role Bonus:
Cannot be detected by directional scanners

Amarr Cruiser Bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damagere

Recon Ships Bonuses:
40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer range
20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount

Slot layout: 5H, 6M, 5L; 2 turrets, 4 launchers
Fittings: 900 PWG, 380 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1650(-187) / 1650 / 1075(+203)
Capacitor (amount / capacitor per second) : 1470(+220) / 4.46/s (+.83)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / align time): 205(+30) / .61(-.04) / 9.99s(-.66s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 150
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 130km / 281 / 10
Sensor strength: 28 Radar
Signature radius: 150

Is the Curse supposed to have that much in the way of raw shields?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#43 - 2014-12-18 15:28:54 UTC
Querns wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

CURSE

Role Bonus:
Cannot be detected by directional scanners

Amarr Cruiser Bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damagere

Recon Ships Bonuses:
40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer range
20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount

Slot layout: 5H, 6M, 5L; 2 turrets, 4 launchers
Fittings: 900 PWG, 380 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1650(-187) / 1650 / 1075(+203)
Capacitor (amount / capacitor per second) : 1470(+220) / 4.46/s (+.83)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / align time): 205(+30) / .61(-.04) / 9.99s(-.66s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 150
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 130km / 281 / 10
Sensor strength: 28 Radar
Signature radius: 150

Is the Curse supposed to have that much in the way of raw shields?


And don't forget to ask about the 2 EXTRA SLOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#44 - 2014-12-18 15:29:07 UTC
Diivil wrote:
Combat recons should at least show up in dscan if you are on the same grid with them. Majority of Eve use dscan tools and it would be extremely frustrating to not be able to copy a certain ship type from dscan list when you can clearly see it in your own overview.


Why should CCP have to balance their game around third party applications? Making game design changes to combat botting, sure. But besides that, doesn't seem like such a good idea.

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"
Adam C
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-12-18 15:29:40 UTC

''Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners '


for trolly ideas i would of preferred combat recons dont appear in local but on dscan. is that even possible :D

trollolololo :D going to be nuts in wh space after that change

colera deldios
#46 - 2014-12-18 15:30:29 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Pilgrim without its neut amount bonus? One word: Ugh.

If you absolutely must put a range bonus on it, make it a small one and keep the amount one. Don't neuter the thing it was good at. With this change it's just a weak Curse with a cloak. Which isn't all that big a ~thing~ with the whole "invisible to d-scan" bonus that you want to give to combat recons. With these changes there'd be even fewer reasons to fly a Pilgrim than there are right now.



No it's a perfect change. Without the amount bonus Pilgrim will still drain most of it's prior target's in about the same time bit more now. Range bonus is much better than amount bonus.

RTSAvalanche
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#47 - 2014-12-18 15:30:43 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:


Those goals lead us to the following major changes:

  • Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners





    • Well that's just complete and utter bullsh!t...

    As if Solo pvp wasn't hard enough, we can not even rely on our D-Scan now?? somthing that we have relied on for the past 10 years.. You are basicaly breaking around some core mechanics here.
    Faction Warefare has been completely broken since Incarna, now you are telling me that recons with web, neut, damp & ECM bonuses will be able to hide in plain site in FW plexes and there is no conventional way to find them.

    Even if combats work to find them, we would have to do that for every plex...

    I smelt somthing bad in the air when the mobile scan inhib came into game, didn't realise things were going to be this bad.


    POWER CREEP is getting excessive..
    Alexander Zuu
    Trickle-down economics
    #48 - 2014-12-18 15:31:02 UTC
    Maybe make the combat recons appear on d-scan fom on grid to 1 au ?
    Zepheros Naeonis
    TinklePee
    #49 - 2014-12-18 15:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Zepheros Naeonis
    CCP Rise wrote:

    Role Bonus:
    Cannot be detected by directional scanners


    Sweet baby jesus, I approve!

    Also:

    CCP Rise wrote:
    CURSE

    Role Bonus:
    Cannot be detected by directional scanners

    Amarr Cruiser Bonuses:
    7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness
    10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damagere


    lol
    Querns
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #50 - 2014-12-18 15:32:03 UTC
    RTSAvalanche wrote:
    CCP Rise wrote:


    Those goals lead us to the following major changes:

  • Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners





    • Well that's just complete and utter bullsh!t...

    As if Solo pvp wasn't hard enough, we can not even rely on our D-Scan now?? somthing that we have relied on for the past 10 years.. You are basicaly breaking around some core mechanics here.
    Faction Warefare has been completely broken since Incarna, now you are telling me that recons with web, neut, damp & ECM bonuses will be able to hide in plain site in FW plexes and there is no conventional way to find them.

    Even if combats work to find them, we would have to do that for every plex...

    I smelt somthing bad in the air when the mobile scan inhib came into game, didn't realise things were going to be this bad.


    POWER CREEP is getting excessive..

    Do they not have combat probes where you live?

    This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
    Airi Cho
    Dark-Rising
    Wrecking Machine.
    #51 - 2014-12-18 15:33:14 UTC
    Marcel Devereux wrote:
    Querns wrote:
    CCP Rise wrote:

    CURSE

    Role Bonus:
    Cannot be detected by directional scanners

    Amarr Cruiser Bonuses:
    7.5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness
    10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damagere

    Recon Ships Bonuses:
    40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer range
    20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount

    Slot layout: 5H, 6M, 5L; 2 turrets, 4 launchers
    Fittings: 900 PWG, 380 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1650(-187) / 1650 / 1075(+203)
    Capacitor (amount / capacitor per second) : 1470(+220) / 4.46/s (+.83)
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / align time): 205(+30) / .61(-.04) / 9.99s(-.66s)
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 150
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 130km / 281 / 10
    Sensor strength: 28 Radar
    Signature radius: 150

    Is the Curse supposed to have that much in the way of raw shields?


    And don't forget to ask about the 2 EXTRA SLOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    It had 4 before not 3. so it is just one extra low.
    Faren Shalni
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #52 - 2014-12-18 15:33:15 UTC
    Querns wrote:
    RTSAvalanche wrote:
    CCP Rise wrote:


    Those goals lead us to the following major changes:

  • Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners





    • Well that's just complete and utter bullsh!t...

    As if Solo pvp wasn't hard enough, we can not even rely on our D-Scan now?? somthing that we have relied on for the past 10 years.. You are basicaly breaking around some core mechanics here.
    Faction Warefare has been completely broken since Incarna, now you are telling me that recons with web, neut, damp & ECM bonuses will be able to hide in plain site in FW plexes and there is no conventional way to find them.

    Even if combats work to find them, we would have to do that for every plex...

    I smelt somthing bad in the air when the mobile scan inhib came into game, didn't realise things were going to be this bad.


    POWER CREEP is getting excessive..

    Do they not have combat probes where you live?


    you have combats on your PvP ship?

    So Much Space
    Randolph Sykes
    Boars on Parade
    The Tuskers Co.
    #53 - 2014-12-18 15:33:50 UTC
    This should have been in the Happy Holidays dev blog, because this is by far the best holiday gift, CCP. Thanks. Big smile
    colera deldios
    #54 - 2014-12-18 15:34:24 UTC
    Adam C wrote:

    ''Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners '


    for trolly ideas i would of preferred combat recons dont appear in local but on dscan. is that even possible :D

    trollolololo :D going to be nuts in wh space after that change




    And you will have 50k 0.0 people go nuts with the local change xD
    Tho delayed or no local in 0.0 is generally a bad idea.
    ale rico
    Slow Chidlren at Play
    SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
    #55 - 2014-12-18 15:35:10 UTC
    Querns wrote:
    RTSAvalanche wrote:
    CCP Rise wrote:


    Those goals lead us to the following major changes:

  • Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners





    • Well that's just complete and utter bullsh!t...

    As if Solo pvp wasn't hard enough, we can not even rely on our D-Scan now?? somthing that we have relied on for the past 10 years.. You are basicaly breaking around some core mechanics here.
    Faction Warefare has been completely broken since Incarna, now you are telling me that recons with web, neut, damp & ECM bonuses will be able to hide in plain site in FW plexes and there is no conventional way to find them.

    Even if combats work to find them, we would have to do that for every plex...

    I smelt somthing bad in the air when the mobile scan inhib came into game, didn't realise things were going to be this bad.


    POWER CREEP is getting excessive..

    Do they not have combat probes where you live?


    Combat probes to find a ship you can't see on D-Scan? That's a lot of probing
    Skyler Hawk
    The Tuskers
    The Tuskers Co.
    #56 - 2014-12-18 15:35:52 UTC
    Quote:
    Please also make Huginn a missile boat. It's a Bellicose hull after all. That or change the hull to Stabber or Rupture.
    Stacy Lone
    Nirakura Inc
    Decisions of Truth
    #57 - 2014-12-18 15:36:05 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners

    Have you considered the implications this will have for wspace?

    I mean it might work for 0.0 where you can see that *something* is there through local, but in wspace, this will be absolutely OP and hilarious. No local, not even DScan anymore, how are you supposed to even get any intel?

    The only way to detect such a ship is by having either eyes on all wholes (requires multitude of characters) and thus seeing it enter or by constant combat probing, which can be seen by the enemy.

    I fear that this will make this ship far out of line in wspace, where intel is already harder to get than in 0.0.
    Reagalan
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #58 - 2014-12-18 15:36:16 UTC
    Combat recons are already unique. They give long webs and long points, both of which are critical for fleets to be effective. They're already in extremely high demand and very heavily flown, and often die first in fleets precisely because they are that important. Considering these are "combat" ships, why not a combat bonus in lieu of this d-scan invisibility? EAFs get a signature radius bonus, combat recons could really use a tanking bonus.

    Unintended consequences are also something to consider here. Unkillable Crows obviously weren't intended, and many in Eve do use d-scan tools like Dashboard and consider them as vital and irreplaceable.

    On the actual ships themselves, an opportunity is being missed here: making viable armor tanked recons. Right now the Rapier and Arazu are the two armor tanked CRs; the Huginn and Lachesis the two shield ones. Both of them suck for tank but the Huginn and Lachesis at least can survive at smaller scales, while the Rapier and Arazu are stuck with a pitiful 4 low slots and die to a light breeze. The two shield ones can get by with just 1 web/point each, and while the two armor ones do give you like 5 points and webs, they don't need that many. Tech 3s, on the other hand, fit fewer tackling mods, but are capable of getting the tank needed to survive being primaried, and as such, are used way more often.

    Revising the slot layouts of the Rapier and Arazu would help very much with closing the gap between Recons and Tech 3s.
    RTSAvalanche
    Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
    Khimi Harar
    #59 - 2014-12-18 15:37:04 UTC
    Querns wrote:
    RTSAvalanche wrote:
    CCP Rise wrote:


    Those goals lead us to the following major changes:

  • Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners





    • Well that's just complete and utter bullsh!t...

    As if Solo pvp wasn't hard enough, we can not even rely on our D-Scan now?? somthing that we have relied on for the past 10 years.. You are basicaly breaking around some core mechanics here.
    Faction Warefare has been completely broken since Incarna, now you are telling me that recons with web, neut, damp & ECM bonuses will be able to hide in plain site in FW plexes and there is no conventional way to find them.

    Even if combats work to find them, we would have to do that for every plex...

    I smelt somthing bad in the air when the mobile scan inhib came into game, didn't realise things were going to be this bad.


    POWER CREEP is getting excessive..

    Do they not have combat probes where you live?



    The idea of a plex is small scal combat

    Let's break it down a different way...

    I'm in a medium plex, lets say im in an active tanked vagabond, a couple thoraxs come in, i take drugs and stay to fight them. Now as much as I check D-scan i have no way of know if they hae a ROOK sitting out side.

    Not being able to rely on DSCAN = eve broken
    Vadeim Rizen
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #60 - 2014-12-18 15:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Vadeim Rizen
    this is so hilariously OP. inb4 recon nerf.

    ratters now can't even just keep an eye on d-scan and warp out before someone comes in to tackle.... tbh all they needed was a hitpoint and cap buff.

    can't wait to sit in a medium plex with an insta-lock arty huginn and blap unsuspecting frigs.