Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You are still missing the point.

What is the difference between Force Recons, and Combat Recons? They provide the exact same desired role. Application of EWAR. Why do we have 2 ship lines providing the same role? One should be focused on providing Combat options from a Recon perspective, the other EWAR.

The fact you consider their DPS to be a tertiary factor is pretty much the whole point.

I mean if all you want is jam cycles you would be silly not to just use the BBIRD both ships are going to be Alphad off the field, at least the BBIRD (even armor fit) is going to be sitting well outside most engagement ranges, with an AB to mitigate any long range damage and only costs 1/10th that of a Recon. Heck if you want to get real amped up use a SEBO in a fleet role with a target range script and sit at 140 in you Bbird.

The simple fact is Combat Recons do not have a role in combat, they share a role with Force Recons, the latter of which is better suited to support a fleet, with its capacity for Covert Cynos, and of course Covert Ops Cloak.

Lets look at this from another perspective. What other cruisers exist in a combat recon like role...well there is the Stratios, and T3's. Both can fit Covert Ops cloaks, Both can pump out 500+DPS, Both can use Black Ops bridges, both can have tanks north of 70KEHP.

So if the above is true, why should Combat Recons not enjoy a similar capacity? Why should they be exempt from Black Ops? Or from having a tank similar to that of a T1 Cloaky Pirate Faction cruiser. So you have a ship class that offers inferior support, and inferior offensive options to comparable ships, and is marginally more effective at performing a support role than a dedicated T1 Cruiser is.

And DSCAN immunity is what CCP has come up with?

A Force Recon is still going to be better in a support capacity
A Stratios is still going to be better in an offensive capacity
A Blackbird is still going to be more cost effective than the rook not showing up on DSCAN.

It is a placebo change.

T2 Resists would absolutely give Combat Recons a shot in the leg in a combat role.
Changing the bonuses on the Recons to clearly split the two would be a good change, no toe stepping.
Giving Combat Recons a cloak and letting them Blops would be a good change.

All three of these things together would solve the entire cluster **** of Recons, and actually maybe make people value combat recons in a combat role, instead of just making a Force Recon wannabe that can't cloak.

But hey hiding from DSCAN is super intuitive because people can't AFK cloak like that!

I guess Combat Recons will always have their place though, hiding in FW plexes ganking easy targets because its the only engagements they can take without a 10 man Logi wing.

[quote=Mario Putzo]
Mario,

I am definetly on board with highlighting the differences in the Combat & Force Recon ships but I don't think the giving them a CovOps cloak capability is necessarily the way to go. If you gave it the T2 resists and CovOps cloak I could see dropping a mid slot from it.

I think one of the bigger things they could do to help would actually be to adjust the EWAR bonus on the Rook itself. I'm personally in favor having the BBIRD bonuses instead of the Rook bonus. The 15% jam strength and 12.5% optimal jam range per level would be much more hand on the T2 than the current 30% jam strength.

Additionally...if we do stay with the kinetic damage type lock-in then the dmg bonus should be 10% per level not 7.5%.

I would like to see a Recon role bonus that would do something to promote hunting/reconnaissance...
[list]

Sensors that let it warp to any ships outside of 150km+

People (gross generalisation) are usually cheap, especially when it means risking things... you have to ask why then that T3s are significantly more prevalent and the simple answer isn't that its due to T3s being OP but that the cheap option is not upto the task.

Hey rise,

like the changes mostly, Guess eve is gonna change to Curse + ishtar online.

Speaking of the ishtar, the last "nerf" (lol) you did months ago didnt do ****. you mentioned it might be to easy on it. Its time for a change. Nerf that thing out of the game. its extremely unhealthy for the balance of the game. so ******* boring. pretty much all i ever see is the ishtar.

People have had their fun. It's time. Nerf the **** out of the ishtar.

Perhaps it's because they don't like to fly ishtars because it's boring. And because they don't like to fly them and because the Ishtar is the only HAC that can go toe to toe with the Ishtar they simply don't engage them.

Right now. If you're not using an Ishtar you're doing it wrong. If you can't see how overpowered the Ishtar is you're delusional. And this is from me who abuses the nutmeg out of how overpowered the Ishtar is.

I wonder if CCP Rise & team would consider something like simply swapping some bonuses around for the Caldari ships.

1) Take the spilt range / intensity bonus to ECM from the Blackbird and put it on the Falcon. The Falcon has the thinnest tank; uses range and stealth for survivability and should be the furthest away from direct combat if possible. With the small hull buffs noted in Rise's OP it will be in excellent shape.

2) Take the intensity bonus from the Falcon and put that on the Blackbird. Very solid ECM capability and T1 cruiser hull performance.

3) Keep the current Rook bonus but beef up the eHP to legit T2 levels but not to current HAC levels... I would say roughly 90% of HAC level. I don't like the kinetic dmg lock-in but they could consider upping the proposed kinetic damage bonus of 7.5% per level to 10% per level or perhaps a slight buff to drone bandwidth and bay (25 / 25 up to 30 / 30). I don't think the D-scan immunity is going to be overpowered in conjunction with these ships. You also have two very specific hard counters you can bring to the table in the form of ECCM and kinetic dmg resist mods.

I think this gets you value and equally important differentiation for each of the ships in this chain from T1 to Combat Recon to Force Recon.

Either way...as noted earlier in the thread I assume the final numbers will be coming out in a week or so and we'll see what's up.

Hey rise,

like the changes mostly, Guess eve is gonna change to Curse + ishtar online.

Speaking of the ishtar, the last "nerf" (lol) you did months ago didnt do ****. you mentioned it might be to easy on it. Its time for a change. Nerf that thing out of the game. its extremely unhealthy for the balance of the game. so ******* boring. pretty much all i ever see is the ishtar.

People have had their fun. It's time. Nerf the **** out of the ishtar.