These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

What about Off Grid Boosting?

First post
Author
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#401 - 2014-12-07 04:49:25 UTC
FaDe-iN wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
FaDe-iN wrote:
Also not to mention neutral alt boosters in high sec, I always had mine neutral. NPC corp. Factor that in! Sounds fair. lol

There's no way to address this anyway.


just like logi alt, has to be on field, and npc alt. they got suspect. problem solved.

simple enough for u?

You can't give boosters a suspect flag for boosting, because it's not a targeted activity. Your idea would make it so that having just one fleet member be at war with someone would flag an otherwise-innocent pilot and ship. This is how the Lofty scam used to work, and is exactly why CCP changed it so that it was no longer possible. Do some research, and try to think before you speak next time, Mr. Simple.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#402 - 2014-12-07 04:53:37 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#403 - 2014-12-07 04:56:21 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Hakuri Hanomaa wrote:
Of course there's a massive difference. How do you know for sure that solo pvpers are an isolated minority?

That's really easy: I look at any of the more popular killboards, and see that out of the more than a thousand kill reports added in the last hour, only about 150 were made by just a single individual, and of those, the majority is composed of high-sec ganks or deaths to CONCORD, or solo small-ship kills that were made as part of large fleet engagements in 0.0.


Just to play Devil's Advocate, and because Im really bored, I just checked Zkillboard, and just to check the amt of lowsec vs nullsec kills on the first 3 pages took a few minutes. To go through a thousand+ in the last hour would be a feat, indeed. Maybe someone can come up with a nifty website app to do it somehow, idk.

Anyway, what I did gather, which may or may not be relevant to the question is lowsec vs nullsec kills. As I said, I looked first at Zkillboard.com, and of the 150 kills on the1st 3 pages, 50 were in nullsec, the rest either lowsec and a few in hisec. This was also ignoring HED-GP which I think most would agree would be considered a statistical outlier. So 33.3% of the kills on the 1st 3 pages were nullsec.

So then I went to dotlan's recent statistics and looked at the last 3 hours, which showed 860 kills in nullsec, and 590 kills in lowsec. So, 59.3% null, 40.1% low. I assume the remaining 0.6% was thus hisec. Those silly Marmites! (and their offgrid boosters and neutral logi lolzololz Lol)

Anyway, I'm wondering if this can kinda, sorta, maybe give us a vague picture of things, simply by (hopefuly logically) assuming that there's going to be more solo pvpers in lowsec than nullsec. It's probably safe to assume that more (if not all) of the solo pvp engagements in the last hour took place in low, so what we're looking at is an unknown slice of 40.1%

Thats very vague, I know, but I think it at least hints that solo pvpers arent "an isolated" minority, a term which at least to me makes it sound like it's a slim, as opposed to what may be a statistically significant minority in the same way that lowsec's kills in the last 3 hours are siginificant at 40% of the total kills, even if that is a minority, for example. Maybe just a matter of semantics,idk.

Also, we cant just look at solo kills, we have to look at solo losses, i.e. players flying around solo looking for fights and getting blapped. IDK if there's an easy way to get that off the killboard.

what does it all mean??Shocked

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project

FaDe-iN
TaXEvaTioN
#404 - 2014-12-07 04:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: FaDe-iN
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
FaDe-iN wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
FaDe-iN wrote:
Also not to mention neutral alt boosters in high sec, I always had mine neutral. NPC corp. Factor that in! Sounds fair. lol

There's no way to address this anyway.


just like logi alt, has to be on field, and npc alt. they got suspect. problem solved.

simple enough for u?

You can't give boosters a suspect flag for boosting, because it's not a targeted activity. Your idea would make it so that having just one fleet member be at war with someone would flag an otherwise-innocent pilot and ship. This is how the Lofty scam used to work, and is exactly why CCP changed it so that it was no longer possible. Do some research, and try to think before you speak next time, Mr. Simple.


That is true, but would have a very different effect. Just like neutral logi going suspect. Booster alts would have to be on field-they are just like logi, adding to the fight.

So if my booster alt is adding x amount of armor to my proteus vs my guardian alts repping my proteus(and going suspect), why should my booster get a free ride safe 100 au out in space-not even going suspect?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#405 - 2014-12-07 04:59:10 UTC
You can't look at just the number of booster characters in EVE. Those characters are owned by players with more than that account. affecting those characters is affecting players who control more accounts than their numbers.

the people complaining about solo fights, and the sanctity of one account per player? one account per.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#406 - 2014-12-07 05:04:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Anyway, what I did gather, which may or may not be relevant to the question is lowsec vs nullsec kills. As I said, I looked first at Zkillboard.com, and of the 150 kills on the1st 3 pages, 50 were in nullsec, the rest either lowsec and a few in hisec. This was also ignoring HED-GP which I think most would agree would be considered a statistical outlier. So 33.3% of the kills on the 1st 3 pages were nullsec.

So then I went to dotlan's recent statistics and looked at the last 3 hours, which showed 860 kills in nullsec, and 590 kills in lowsec. So, 59.3% null, 40.1% low. I assume the remaining 0.6% was thus hisec. Those silly Marmites! (and their offgrid boosters and neutral logi lolzololz Lol)

Anyway, I'm wondering if this can kinda, sorta, maybe give us a vague picture of things, simply by (hopefuly logically) assuming that there's going to be more solo pvpers in lowsec than nullsec. It's probably safe to assume that more (if not all) of the solo pvp engagements in the last hour took place in low, so what we're looking at is an unknown slice of 40.1%

There's something terribly wrong with that data. High-sec is definitely responsible for more than 0.6% of the kills that happen in the game. I've put in the research on this before, and it's something like 25-30% of the kills by count, and something like 60% of the kills by value, which is a value also supported by CCP's own research that you can find in the QENs and such (and if it wasn't for supercaps, the second value would be much higher).

FaDe-iN wrote:
That is true, but would have a very different effect. Just like neutral logi going suspect. Booster alts would have to be on field-they are just like logi, adding to the fight.

So if my booster alt is adding x amount of armor to my proteus vs my guardian alts repping my proteus(and going suspect), why should my booster get a free ride safe 100 au out in space-not even going suspect?

The booster shouldn't get a free ride. Timer inheritance has already been discussed and agreed upon earlier in this thread. However, inheritance is very different from forcing a suspect flag.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

FaDe-iN
TaXEvaTioN
#407 - 2014-12-07 05:06:49 UTC  |  Edited by: FaDe-iN
Rain6637 wrote:
You can't look at just the number of booster characters in EVE. Those characters are owned by players with more than that account. affecting those characters is affecting players who control more accounts than their numbers.

the people complaining about solo fights, and the sanctity of one account per player? one account per.


It is not a 1v1 complaint, get off that high horse. Lets here(hear.lol) a valid argument for booster alts to have the ability to project there increase to fleet effectiveness with almost zero risk from any given location in a system?

Don't get me wrong, I love boosters. They are a corner stone of EVE. but at there current state -and use. they are broken.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#408 - 2014-12-07 05:30:28 UTC
Normally when something is beneficial, you exploit it. In the case of links, I see an impossible crusade. Disallowing boosting within POS forcefields was one thing, but [apparently] moving boosters on grid (and requiring a grid check) is outside the realm of possibility. Watch list is an upper limit to grid checks, and that's just 15 ships... a link/grid fix is really far off. Right now the smart thing is use the good thing.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#409 - 2014-12-07 05:34:03 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

There's something terribly wrong with that data. High-sec is definitely responsible for more than 0.6% of the kills that happen in the game. I've put in the research on this before, and it's something like 25-30% of the kills by count, and something like 60% of the kills by value, which is a value also supported by CCP's own research that you can find in the QENs and such (and if it wasn't for supercaps, the second value would be much higher).


LOL, you're exactly right. I went back over to dotlan and discovered that, had I scrolled down, I would have seen kills in hisec too Oops

Without bothering to actually add it all up again, it looks like there's more kills in hisec than lowsec. Sooo all my numbers are off. Ugh, lol.

"thanks for playing, Ssab!" Oops

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project

FaDe-iN
TaXEvaTioN
#410 - 2014-12-07 05:40:24 UTC  |  Edited by: FaDe-iN
Rain6637 wrote:
Normally when something is beneficial, you exploit it. In the case of links, I see an impossible crusade. Disallowing boosting within POS forcefields was one thing, but [apparently] moving boosters on grid (and requiring a grid check) is outside the realm of possibility. Watch list is an upper limit to grid checks, and that's just 15 ships... a link/grid fix is really far off. Right now the smart thing is use the good thing.


So in ur opinion, CCP should through there hands in the air, and say working as intended at the expense of many players because forcing boosters on grid and in the fight is just work? Guessing you were on board with ISBOX cause that is fair also-risk vs reward and within the realm of your liking?

And explain to us how a grid check is outside the realm of possibility? I am truly curious.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#411 - 2014-12-07 05:40:59 UTC
Highsec kills are high just because -so- many assets are there, for fear of the deep end. (and the sorta deep end where you can barely keep your head above water, or lowsec).

There's really no point in making a valid argument for why links should get to stay off grid, because it's due to a computing limitation and how the game is programmed. It's the way it is because that's the only way it can be, without rewriting the game. Getting worked up over it is pointless too. Just get a link booster. Playing with one account provides the bare minimum for change in this game of lots of people and even more alts.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#412 - 2014-12-07 05:43:22 UTC
It's starting to make sense now. The FaDe-iN guy simply didn't read the rest of the thread.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

FaDe-iN
TaXEvaTioN
#413 - 2014-12-07 05:43:54 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Highsec kills are high just because -so- many assets are there, for fear of the deep end. (and the sorta deep end where you can barely keep your head above water, or lowsec).

There's really no point in making a valid argument for why links should get to stay off grid, because it's due to a computing limitation and how the game is programmed. It's the way it is because that's the only way it can be, without rewriting the game. Getting worked up over it is pointless too. Just get a link booster. Playing with one account provides the bare minimum for change in this game of lots of people and even more alts.



Were dose your in understanding of the game engine, and the way it is coded come from? Explain in detail if u can?
FaDe-iN
TaXEvaTioN
#414 - 2014-12-07 05:44:43 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
It's starting to make sense now. The FaDe-iN guy simply didn't read the rest of the thread.



That is true, I have not skimmed through all the thread, but the highlights seem so shine bright.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#415 - 2014-12-07 05:45:00 UTC
and he's new. he's asking me to rehash years of topics about the difference between grid and system checks.
FaDe-iN
TaXEvaTioN
#416 - 2014-12-07 05:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: FaDe-iN
Rain6637 wrote:
and he's new. he's asking me to rehash years of topics about the difference between grid and system checks.


I have played since 04. Main was P42ALPHA.

I started my 0.0 with WI. Have been everywere in EVE.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#417 - 2014-12-07 05:48:52 UTC
so why are you asking me to recount why off-grid boosting is stuck that way?
FaDe-iN
TaXEvaTioN
#418 - 2014-12-07 05:52:52 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
so why are you asking me to recount why off-grid boosting is stuck that way?


Cause I am not a tit sucking leache, I have seen the arguments about why EVE cant change, then shortly after-the turds like you flip there stance when CCP fix's a mechanic. Get on bored with why boosters need a change. Help your community, not hinder it.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#419 - 2014-12-07 05:53:48 UTC
If it's up to me, I'd rather keep you in the dark. So no I won't spoon feed you info about brain in a box.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#420 - 2014-12-07 05:55:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
You're saying that they need a change, but you're not providing any arguments as to why. Your tone of voice and personal moral standpoint on the issue aren't enough to convince other people. I've provided clear, math-based reasoning for why boosting shouldn't be put on-grid, but instead addressed with other balancing strategies. Perhaps you should do the same.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted