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[Phoebe] Long Distance Travel Changes - updates!

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Rawthorm
The Establishment
#861 - 2014-10-10 17:46:28 UTC
Lallante wrote:
The idea that JFs are a friend to nullsec industry is a curious one - surely the ease of transport of materials from Jita in JFs is the single biggest reason there ISNT any nullsec industry?


That statement kind of highlights the fact that your calling for harsh penalties to an area of EvE gameplay to which you know NOTHING about.

You want to know why there isn't any nullsec industry? Because CCP spent the last 10 years DELIBERATELY making it this way. No region, or even group of nearby regions in game have all the resources for self sufficiency because CCP wanted you to go kick down the door of some region miles away to gain access to a resource your home regions lacked. That little idea in the name of providing PvP incentive is one of the reasons industry/logistics is the way it is.
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#862 - 2014-10-10 17:46:37 UTC
Dibble Dabble wrote:

I suppose it was to be expected we know who runs Eve and we wonder how many CCP Devs / Mods are in goons.


Actually, all the goon CCP devs are now at Riot.

Also I just realised I can change one letter in that sentence and it would still be true:

Actually, all the good CCP devs are now at Riot.

How cool is that!?!?!
Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#863 - 2014-10-10 17:49:42 UTC
xttz wrote:
Dibble Dabble wrote:

I suppose it was to be expected we know who runs Eve and we wonder how many CCP Devs / Mods are in goons.


Actually, all the goon CCP devs are now at Riot.

Also I just realised I can change one letter in that sentence and it would still be true:

Actually, all the good CCP devs are now at Riot.

How cool is that!?!?!


No wonder you took a dump on your numbers around that time eh?

grrr goons vBig smile

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Rawthorm
The Establishment
#864 - 2014-10-10 17:50:12 UTC
Dibble Dabble wrote:
I see that goons have a moan and CCP bends over and takes it up the bum.

I suppose it was to be expected we know who runs Eve and we wonder how many CCP Devs / Mods are in goons.

Its a shame CCP lack a pair of round spherical objects, not one single pair between the lot of them.

You bottled it CCP.



It's probably more likely that CCP realized that crippling the whole of EvE logistics was too high a price to pay just to spite a few power blocs...now if others like you could see beyond your particular need to stick it to one group or another without any consideration to collateral damage we might get somewhere in EvE P
Perseus Kallistratos
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#865 - 2014-10-10 17:50:59 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:


It's almost as if you can't accept people from a player group are allowed to think for themselves, that makes me sad friend. Why would you fall for such a flawed view on life?


You should ask that question to yourself, because the group of players that bring up false-pretense ~concerns~ with how the logistics and industry jump changes were readjusted so that null logistics can still work are almost exclusively Pandemic Legion players, a group known for having miniscule numbers and having traditionally relied on being able to project capital and supercapital ships throughout all of New Eden. It's awfully looking like here that you bunch are all aware that PL's claim to being relevant in null is getting burned to ground here through the combat capital jump nerf, which is almost unanimously seen as a necessary change. In response, it looks like your group is trying to salvage at least some amount of it's relevance by making sure that they would at least be geographically isolated from other null entities, which rely on numbers, organization and logistics instead of combat supercapital and capital projection, therefore making sure that your group can able to brace the storm despite all of your disadvantages.

Almost exclusively, your group of players claimed under this thread that somehow industrials would be used as shuttles, which is a hilariously silly idea that cannot work, as industrials are filmsy and unsurvivable, suspect to getting caught by bubbles, and better alternatives in the forum of travel interceptors without any vulnerabilies that can travel faster without bothering with any mechanics do exist.

Furthermore, in contrast with the self-serving agenda PL is trying to push here, responses to Greyscale's original set of proposed changes which rightly highlighted how those would kill null logistics in it's tracks, and damage EVE economy as a whole, were bipartisan and overwhelming in numbers.

Now, unless your group of players can't find a better and valid argument to be able to coerce the developers into making further changes to guarantee that PL can be isolated and able to make a difference with sub capitals, I suggest you stop reflecting your inability think for yourself and penchant for group think upon us, as by continuing to do so, you'll only be hindering your already diminishing credibility further.


Actually the power projection is more of a recent thing. You should probably run with "PL are one of the best entities at rapid adaptation to new mechanics, mainly due to their constant need to farm tears from brain dead pubbies".

Thanks for not disappointing.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#866 - 2014-10-10 17:55:18 UTC
Rawthorm wrote:
Dibble Dabble wrote:
I see that goons have a moan and CCP bends over and takes it up the bum.

I suppose it was to be expected we know who runs Eve and we wonder how many CCP Devs / Mods are in goons.

Its a shame CCP lack a pair of round spherical objects, not one single pair between the lot of them.

You bottled it CCP.



It's probably more likely that CCP realized that crippling the whole of EvE logistics was too high a price to pay just to spite a few power blocs...now if others like you could see beyond your particular need to stick it to one group or another without any consideration to collateral damage we might get somewhere in EvE P


SO much this.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#867 - 2014-10-10 17:56:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kassasis Dakkstromri
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Because we don't want to lock them in systems while their cooldown is ticking down; because not doing so plays havoc with capital accessibility of some areas of space; and because we'd much rather have capitals stuck in gate bubbles than docked up and unused.



If the metrics show that there is a long term trend in the reduction of capital use (in station and unused), would CCP revisit the universal 5 LY cap to a single jump? Or is the 5 LY jump range a critical component to CCP's goals for Null Sec as opposed to an arbitrary 'good' starting point?

Also was there a reason that the Jump range limit wasn't proposed as a 'stair-cased' limit based on capital ship roles?

Has a survey been taken of Regional Jump distances to ensure there are no 5.984 LY ranges? Or should we expect substantial Regional Capital Jump system "choke points" to come into existence with the launch of Phoebe on TQ?


Oh and is it okay to resub now, or should I continue protesting?

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Momma Yeti
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#868 - 2014-10-10 17:56:41 UTC
So I have been training for my first capital ship in hopes of participating in some of the massive battles around the universe. Ive been training for months (Not on this toon) and investing many PLEX's and iskies...

After reading this however, the time traveled I was willing to endure for such battles with only a 3 hour window a night to play, just blew my idea out of the water...

I was already looking at a 1 hour travel time with the individuals who were willing to take me via current jump bridges and star gates. Which would leave 2 hours for fleet time...

If the math I am reading is right, my 3 hour window of play time will not be sufficient. I guess I will once again scrap my plans and long term investment and go find something else to do in EVE once again.

PS: This is the 4th time a long term investment was nerfed because the DEVs try to fix something...I really hope this works and doesn't just cause more problems as I am paying for a game with long term goals that keep getting taken from me...

Regards,
MY
Odelll
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#869 - 2014-10-10 17:57:01 UTC

Fix for jump drives
+ changed the name of jump drive to random improbability drive
+ random improbability drives or RID now jump you randomly to a location within max jump distance
+ this effects all jump mechanics including bridges

Fix for jita
+ added a tax scalable by your current standing on all market trading, 1 standing per 10% tax. -10 is 100% tax, 10 is 0% tax.
- example of this, having 5 standings with Caldari will see a 50% tax on transactions in places like jita.
- example 2 of this would be having -5 to a player alliance. Purchasing from their market would result in a 50% tax.

Fix for blops
- Removed black ops portals, replaced with the ability to warp cloaked.

CCP can pay me my money now for "fixing" the game, tyvm.
Xorth Adimus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#870 - 2014-10-10 17:59:21 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
David Magnus wrote:
These do address some of the bigger concerns, thanks for taking the time to post about these!
Have there been changes to death-clone camping, or did I miss that in a different thread?


Death clone camping is handled by the new medical clone changes that are being implemented right now. The short version is that you'll always be able to intentionally revoke your clone contract somewhere and have it reset to your rookie system.

wait what, where is this


On Nullarbor's computer, currently.

Also, to everyone who was wondering whether or not I listened, I read 4000 freaking posts by myself. Whether or not I agreed with the concerns was an open question, but I hope it was obvious from my posting that I was paying attention!


The proposed updates are very good and it is obvious you have listened.

Should be interesting to see how this all works on a large scale and how you guys implement it / check it.

Thanks for all the hard work reading all those posts and replying!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#871 - 2014-10-10 17:59:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Rawthorm wrote:
Lallante wrote:
The idea that JFs are a friend to nullsec industry is a curious one - surely the ease of transport of materials from Jita in JFs is the single biggest reason there ISNT any nullsec industry?


That statement kind of highlights the fact that your calling for harsh penalties to an area of EvE gameplay to which you know NOTHING about.

You want to know why there isn't any nullsec industry? Because CCP spent the last 10 years DELIBERATELY making it this way. No region, or even group of nearby regions in game have all the resources for self sufficiency because CCP wanted you to go kick down the door of some region miles away to gain access to a resource your home regions lacked. That little idea in the name of providing PvP incentive is one of the reasons industry/logistics is the way it is.
\

That's right, the problem with that is the same reason the 'anomalie nerf' didn't work and just create null space only worth renting.

CCP nerfed anomalies to 'give people a reason to fight' but what really happened is that lots of us just moved alts to other places to make pve isk (like high sec incursions).

Likewise, having no one region be able to achieve self sufficiency was the same kind of thinking. But rather than war happening, this just caused people to get rich supplying jita markets with stuff. 1st it was the Drone Region guys gun mining, now it's just people mining low ends in high sec.

The principle in both cases is this: NO ONE fights over things they can just buy or rent. fight comes with a chance of losing, spending cash generally doesn't.
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#872 - 2014-10-10 18:00:12 UTC
Perseus Kallistratos wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:


It's almost as if you can't accept people from a player group are allowed to think for themselves, that makes me sad friend. Why would you fall for such a flawed view on life?


You should ask that question to yourself, because the group of players that bring up false-pretense ~concerns~ with how the logistics and industry jump changes were readjusted so that null logistics can still work are almost exclusively Pandemic Legion players, a group known for having miniscule numbers and having traditionally relied on being able to project capital and supercapital ships throughout all of New Eden. It's awfully looking like here that you bunch are all aware that PL's claim to being relevant in null is getting burned to ground here through the combat capital jump nerf, which is almost unanimously seen as a necessary change. In response, it looks like your group is trying to salvage at least some amount of it's relevance by making sure that they would at least be geographically isolated from other null entities, which rely on numbers, organization and logistics instead of combat supercapital and capital projection, therefore making sure that your group can able to brace the storm despite all of your disadvantages.

Almost exclusively, your group of players claimed under this thread that somehow industrials would be used as shuttles, which is a hilariously silly idea that cannot work, as industrials are filmsy and unsurvivable, suspect to getting caught by bubbles, and better alternatives in the forum of travel interceptors without any vulnerabilies that can travel faster without bothering with any mechanics do exist.

Furthermore, in contrast with the self-serving agenda PL is trying to push here, responses to Greyscale's original set of proposed changes which rightly highlighted how those would kill null logistics in it's tracks, and damage EVE economy as a whole, were bipartisan and overwhelming in numbers.

Now, unless your group of players can't find a better and valid argument to be able to coerce the developers into making further changes to guarantee that PL can be isolated and able to make a difference with sub capitals, I suggest you stop reflecting your inability think for yourself and penchant for group think upon us, as by continuing to do so, you'll only be hindering your already diminishing credibility further.


Actually the power projection is more of a recent thing. You should probably run with "PL are one of the best entities at rapid adaptation to new mechanics, mainly due to their constant need to farm tears from brain dead pubbies".

Thanks for not disappointing.


So then why all the moaning about industrials being used as taxis? PL will adapt better than anyone logged in, right?
Dibble Dabble
Capital Assets Inc
#873 - 2014-10-10 18:04:41 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Dibble Dabble wrote:
I see that goons have a moan and CCP bends over and takes it up the bum.

I suppose it was to be expected we know who runs Eve and we wonder how many CCP Devs / Mods are in goons.

Its a shame CCP lack a pair of round spherical objects, not one single pair between the lot of them.

You bottled it CCP.





I'm not a goon and i moaned but I also have a lot of invested interests in this matter.


A lot of people moaned about the nerf to high sec industry but CCP ignored them but I suspect most were high sec carebears so CCP don't give a crap about them that's for sure.

I guess getting moon goo, minerals and the high end stuff from null to empire would have been more difficult with the netf. It would have hurt the renters and RMT players and we know what these mean to goons and other null sec alliances.

The ISK must flow. CCP bends over.



Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#874 - 2014-10-10 18:06:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Panther X
Odelll wrote:

Fix for jump drives
+ changed the name of jump drive to random improbability drive
+ random improbability drives or RID now jump you randomly to a location within max jump distance
+ this effects all jump mechanics including bridges

Fix for jita
+ added a tax scalable by your current standing on all market trading, 1 standing per 10% tax. -10 is 100% tax, 10 is 0% tax.
- example of this, having 5 standings with Caldari will see a 50% tax on transactions in places like jita.
- example 2 of this would be having -5 to a player alliance. Purchasing from their market would result in a 50% tax.

Fix for blops
- Removed black ops portals, replaced with the ability to warp cloaked.

CCP can pay me my money now for "fixing" the game, tyvm.


Sorry you're fired.

First; haha "Douglas Adams", thanks for the random Hitchiker's reference.
Fix for Jita? Make a tax for sitting in station. I billion isk per second why don't you?

Oh, Black OPs battleships should have Covert Ops cloaks anyway. That I like. Ok, accept this parting gift of 1 isk.

Lol

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Drak Fel
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#875 - 2014-10-10 18:08:25 UTC
So, here is my problem with this whole expansion.

Here is how I feel about different activities in Eve now...

  • PvP = Fun, yay, what a rush.

  • Logistics = Boring, but a necessary evil.

  • PvE & Industry = Unbearably boring.

  • Moving to a new deployment area = Boring, but at least we can get it over with quickly

Here comes Phoebe...

  • PvP = It is very likely that the amount of PvP fights I personally am in will be less. The one thing in Eve I enjoy.

  • Logistics = Still boring, but now takes longer and is more hassle due to no pod express, fatigue and 10 ly JF range.

  • PvE & Industry = Still unbearably boring.

  • Moving to a new deployment area = Still boring, now takes much longer.

Basically Greyscale, you are decreasing my "fun per hour" by making the boring parts of the game take longer and decreasing the frequency of what I consider to be the one and only fun part of the game. In fact the only reason I play the game in the fist place.
Perseus Kallistratos
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#876 - 2014-10-10 18:08:51 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Perseus Kallistratos wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:


It's almost as if you can't accept people from a player group are allowed to think for themselves, that makes me sad friend. Why would you fall for such a flawed view on life?


You should ask that question to yourself, because the group of players that bring up false-pretense ~concerns~ with how the logistics and industry jump changes were readjusted so that null logistics can still work are almost exclusively Pandemic Legion players, a group known for having miniscule numbers and having traditionally relied on being able to project capital and supercapital ships throughout all of New Eden. It's awfully looking like here that you bunch are all aware that PL's claim to being relevant in null is getting burned to ground here through the combat capital jump nerf, which is almost unanimously seen as a necessary change. In response, it looks like your group is trying to salvage at least some amount of it's relevance by making sure that they would at least be geographically isolated from other null entities, which rely on numbers, organization and logistics instead of combat supercapital and capital projection, therefore making sure that your group can able to brace the storm despite all of your disadvantages.

Almost exclusively, your group of players claimed under this thread that somehow industrials would be used as shuttles, which is a hilariously silly idea that cannot work, as industrials are filmsy and unsurvivable, suspect to getting caught by bubbles, and better alternatives in the forum of travel interceptors without any vulnerabilies that can travel faster without bothering with any mechanics do exist.

Furthermore, in contrast with the self-serving agenda PL is trying to push here, responses to Greyscale's original set of proposed changes which rightly highlighted how those would kill null logistics in it's tracks, and damage EVE economy as a whole, were bipartisan and overwhelming in numbers.

Now, unless your group of players can't find a better and valid argument to be able to coerce the developers into making further changes to guarantee that PL can be isolated and able to make a difference with sub capitals, I suggest you stop reflecting your inability think for yourself and penchant for group think upon us, as by continuing to do so, you'll only be hindering your already diminishing credibility further.


Actually the power projection is more of a recent thing. You should probably run with "PL are one of the best entities at rapid adaptation to new mechanics, mainly due to their constant need to farm tears from brain dead pubbies".

Thanks for not disappointing.


So then why all the moaning about industrials being used as taxis? PL will adapt better than anyone logged in, right?


This is true. So when CCP leaves such an obvious mechanic open to abuse, we have to protest. Only high-level sphere-level exploits should be allowed to sneak through.
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#877 - 2014-10-10 18:12:14 UTC
Perseus Kallistratos wrote:
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Perseus Kallistratos wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:


It's almost as if you can't accept people from a player group are allowed to think for themselves, that makes me sad friend. Why would you fall for such a flawed view on life?


You should ask that question to yourself, because the group of players that bring up false-pretense ~concerns~ with how the logistics and industry jump changes were readjusted so that null logistics can still work are almost exclusively Pandemic Legion players, a group known for having miniscule numbers and having traditionally relied on being able to project capital and supercapital ships throughout all of New Eden. It's awfully looking like here that you bunch are all aware that PL's claim to being relevant in null is getting burned to ground here through the combat capital jump nerf, which is almost unanimously seen as a necessary change. In response, it looks like your group is trying to salvage at least some amount of it's relevance by making sure that they would at least be geographically isolated from other null entities, which rely on numbers, organization and logistics instead of combat supercapital and capital projection, therefore making sure that your group can able to brace the storm despite all of your disadvantages.

Almost exclusively, your group of players claimed under this thread that somehow industrials would be used as shuttles, which is a hilariously silly idea that cannot work, as industrials are filmsy and unsurvivable, suspect to getting caught by bubbles, and better alternatives in the forum of travel interceptors without any vulnerabilies that can travel faster without bothering with any mechanics do exist.

Furthermore, in contrast with the self-serving agenda PL is trying to push here, responses to Greyscale's original set of proposed changes which rightly highlighted how those would kill null logistics in it's tracks, and damage EVE economy as a whole, were bipartisan and overwhelming in numbers.

Now, unless your group of players can't find a better and valid argument to be able to coerce the developers into making further changes to guarantee that PL can be isolated and able to make a difference with sub capitals, I suggest you stop reflecting your inability think for yourself and penchant for group think upon us, as by continuing to do so, you'll only be hindering your already diminishing credibility further.


Actually the power projection is more of a recent thing. You should probably run with "PL are one of the best entities at rapid adaptation to new mechanics, mainly due to their constant need to farm tears from brain dead pubbies".

Thanks for not disappointing.


So then why all the moaning about industrials being used as taxis? PL will adapt better than anyone logged in, right?


This is true. So when CCP leaves such an obvious mechanic open to abuse, we have to protest. Only high-level sphere-level exploits should be allowed to sneak through.


Silva told us you guys are scurred. lol
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#878 - 2014-10-10 18:13:05 UTC
Perseus Kallistratos wrote:

This is true. So when CCP leaves such an obvious mechanic open to abuse, we have to protest. Only high-level sphere-level exploits should be allowed to sneak through.


So you're saying that if people were to use industrials to "quickly" move between regions, then you (the attacker) wouldn't be able to adapt and set up one bubble and completely annihilate the industrial train?

How are industrials with up to a 5 minute timer between jump bridges faster than any interceptor?
snorkle25
Interstellar Ventures LLC
#879 - 2014-10-10 18:18:45 UTC
A few suggestions I have:

1. Add a jump route planner function to the star map.

2. Change the Fatigue generation from 1+(LY traveled) to just (LY traveled). Increase fatigue degradation to .25/min. Add Jump Fatigue Compensation skill that increases fatigue reduction by .01/min per level so maxed out skill equates to -.3/min fatigue.
Tal Redfield
Rowan's Crown
#880 - 2014-10-10 18:18:45 UTC
Hopefully my maths is good so here goes on Black ops with 50% reduction in jump fatigue bonus.

First Drop; Fatique 0, Range 5ly
Timer: (5 + 1) x 50%bonus = 3min
New Fatique: 3

Return to origin; Fatique after 5min (3–(5x0.1)) = 2.5, Range 5ly
[Fatique < Minimum Timer] Timer: (5 + 1) x 50%bonus = 3min
New Fatique: 3 x 2.5 = 7.5


Second Drop; Fatique after 30min (7.5-(30x0.1)) = 4.5, Range 7.5ly
Timer: 4.5min
New Fatique: 4.5 x ((7.5 + 1) * 50%bonus) = 19.125

Return to origin; Fatique after 5min (19.125–(5x0.1)) = 18.625, Range 7.5ly
Timer: 18.625min
New Fatique: 18.625 x ((7.5 + 1) * 50%bonus) = 79.16


Third Drop: Fatique after 30min (79.16-(30x0.1)) = 76.16, Range 7ly
Timer: 79.16min
New Fatique: 79.16 x ((7 + 1) * 50%bonus) = 304.63

Return to origin; Fatique after waiting 80min (304.63 – (80 x 0.1)) = 296.63, Range 7ly
Timer: 296.63min / 4.9hours
New Fatique: 296.63 x ((7 + 1) * 50%bonus) = 1186.5

Summary:
• After the third drop you have to wait approx. 1hour20min to jump back home.
• After returning home from third drop you will wait approx. 5 hours before being able to jump again
• The accumulated fatigue after 3 drops will take 8.2 days to decay!!!!!
• You are limited to a max of three drops when starting with zero fatigue, even less if you start with some fatigue already active.

Limiting Black Ops to 2 possibly 3 drops is definitely harming them in my opinion. The same applies to titan bridging gangs on a local basis which provides hours of fun and does nothing for power projection.

Base the bonus for Black Ops around the ORIGIN system, like a “Going home” bonus, example;
Johnny drops on a shiny ship 5ly away. He gets 3 fatigue. He jumps back to the home/origin system, the bonus kicks in and significantly reduces or negates fatigue for that jump.

Create a bonus for Titan bridging that originates in the same system so that local content does not get stifled which is what is about to happen. Your aims for these changes is to limit power projection, making local content harder to access does not have to be a side effect.
Example: Johnny takes Titan Bridge to drop on shiny ship 5ly away. He gets 6 fatigue. He burns back to ORIGIN system and stacks back on the Titan. He bridges a second time from the same system into the same immediate vicinity, bonus kicks in and resets his fatigue back to 6 or whatever. However any other subsequent jump from any other system will incur normal fatigue penalties, which means your original idea for crippling long distance travel still applies for any movement away from the origin system.

So in closing please CCP come up with a bonus fatigue reduction system for Black Ops and Titan Bridges that take into account the ORIGIN/HOME system on subsequent jumps so as to not stifle local content.

Regards