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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4361 - 2014-10-02 22:07:59 UTC
Eigenvalue wrote:
Please. The gate feature is absurd. No one is going to move capitals through gates as part of a strategy.
Bet you a PLEX that we see it happen before the end of the year.

If it's the best way to move for a given situation, or if it gains them a tactical advantage, it'll happen. Guaranteed.

The gleeful cackling of folks over the idea of NanoNidhoggur and NanoMoros roams should be a nice, big, blue-by-four on that score.
Quote:
Quote:

4. Supers and Titans will still have a role. Invulnerable hotdropo'clock mobiles won't be it - but they will have a role. Inventive players (which may or may not include you) can probably find all kinds of ways to use them effectively. Like, say, notice they have Clone Vats and SMAs.


Really? wouldn't it be just you know 10 times cheaper to just use a rorqual - which can dock in stations by the way and get the .1 fatigue modifier?

Sure you could do that. Of course, having Rorquals to support your Suddenly Subcap Fleet is probably less optimal than having ECM immune, high DPS Supers and Titans on field, especially when the Titans can then bridge the subcap fleet out when they've accomplished what they were there to do.

But hey, it's fine by me if you want to judge these changes by your limited imagination from your position of supreme privelege. I'll just be sitting back here wondering if this is too big of a stealth buff to lowsec.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Operative X10-4
Doomheim
#4362 - 2014-10-02 22:09:10 UTC
Greyscale for president! +1

FOREVER PIRATE 07 FLY DANGEROUSLY.
Sheeana Harb
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4363 - 2014-10-02 22:09:23 UTC
RasTrent wrote:
Sheeana Harb wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
RasTrent wrote:
in before plex for fatigue reduction.


Sooooo mudderfugggin' THIS!!



It wouldn't go well with the majority of playerbase. Thankfully.


And these proposed changes are going well? This is 2011 all over again.. but this time they have the chance to retract.


Honestly? Yes, I think the upcoming changes will achieve exactly what CCP has set to do (reduce power projection and ability to quickly travel across null-sec).
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#4364 - 2014-10-02 22:09:49 UTC
The thread is slowing down. I think people raged themselves to sleep

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Endo Saissore
Afterburners of Eve'il Inc.
#4365 - 2014-10-02 22:10:37 UTC
P4nty w44d wrote:
TimeDrawsNigh wrote:
Endo Saissore wrote:
TimeDrawsNigh wrote:
Counter proposal for the jump delay timer.

Link below is a google excel doc. of cumulative delay timer that incrementally gets longer with each jump.

http://bit.ly/1rOpzTs

It’s a logarithmic scale.

So when you jump you get two timers.

First timer is the jump drive timer; the second timer is jump drive activation delay.

The jump drive timer is a base 30 minutes and every time you make a jump it will record the amount and add +1 to the "Jumps Made Since Timer Began" value. The jump drive timer will reset back to 30 min every time you make a new jump.
The jump drive activation delay is the timer you get once you have jumped. It’s the time you have to wait till the next jump can be made.

The equation for this is below.

http://i.imgur.com/EQpv4Cv.png

The principal of what happens here is that your delay timer gets bigger with each jump. The increment between each subsequent timer gets smaller, causing the graph to plateau out into a logarithmic curve. Eventually after so many jumps the delay timer will reach the same value as the jump drive timer, at which point it’s better with it out entirely and then start the process over.

Initially we found a problem with the function where doing three really short distance jumps would make the times later overall shorter but that has been fixed with the “Jump Amount Modifier.”

So e.g.
Jump 1 > 4.19 LY > delay timer of 6.42min > cumulative time 6.42min
Jump 2 > 4.7 LY > delay timer of 9.72 min > cumulative time 16.14min
Jump 3 > 4.206 LY > delay timer of 11.73 min > cumulative time 27.86min
Jump 5 > 4.564 LY > delay timer of 13.28 min > cumulative time 41.14min
Jump 6 > 1.855 LY > delay timer of 14.15 min > cumulative time 55.29min

Notice the increase in time getting smaller but the time overall still get longer. Bit like the diminishing returns of stacking nerf.

This Post and Equation was worked on by Sieonigh and myself.

Edit: We made this formula under the assumption that Jump Freighters and Rorquals do NOT have the 90% reduction, rather we think Black Ops should have this reduction (which we're implementing).



Are you waiting until fatigue hits zero between each jump?


No. This proposal takes away fatigue and inserts a 30 Minutes Jump Drive timer (ie: 1 Minute Aggression Timer) that is reset everytime you make a jump within the 30 Minute timer which gives you the next Jump Activation Delay you see on the spreadsheet.


yes this is a far better idea


I see...

I don't think this is a better solution. Putting a hard limit takes away a players choice and risk/reward.

CCP's solution makes you weigh your decision and wonder if jumping quickly is worth it. Now you can jump in, kill target, jump out. You gain a penalty but its doable. A hard timer takes away that choice.
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4366 - 2014-10-02 22:11:02 UTC
Brittney Calm wrote:
I can see FC's going hey if you were on the OP earlier this week you will have to sit this one out. Or X in fleet if you have fatigue and cant go on todays op..

Suddenly fleet #'s go from 100+ down to 50 or less in seconds.

They should have in fleet window for FC's a check by pilots that cannot jump so fc can kick them from fleet.

Another thought is will TIDI in a big cap fleet affect fatigue, since everything for example is at 10% would a normal 6 minutes to be able to jump turn into 60+ minutes?

-BC


That will be using the big block approach of instantly jumping to a location through the safety of all your blues to hit red territory.

not the old small scale skirmish of roaming threw gates.

I can see 2 types of Ops - Emergency response Hot drop, and the roam via gate to gate.

The need for fights will bring tension between blues, and more smaller fights.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4367 - 2014-10-02 22:11:24 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Oh wow did the JF calculations now, they can pretty much ignore Fatigue, they only have to worry about the shorter range.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PGt-QAhdRK3ndkpxkL5CVf5tegcrW0OoKSqKLCz0Y8w/edit#gid=1961151283



Can't see google docs (work net nanny) but based on my calculations not sure that is totally correct...

Jumps Distance Fatigue Due to Current Jump Previous Fatigue Less Wait Final Fatigue Minutes to Fatigue Under 1 Nearest Hour
1 4 1.4 0.00 1.40 5.00 0.08
2 4 1.4 1.26 1.76 8.64 0.14
3 4 1.4 1.59 2.22 13.23 0.22
4 4 1.4 2.00 2.80 19.01 0.32
5 4 1.4 2.52 3.53 26.29 0.44
6 4 1.4 3.18 4.45 35.46 0.59
7 4 1.4 4.00 5.60 47.02 0.78
8 4 1.4 5.04 7.06 61.59 1.03
9 4 1.4 6.35 8.89 79.94 1.33
10 4 1.4 8.00 11.21 103.06 1.72
11 4 1.4 10.09 14.12 132.20 2.20
12 4 1.4 12.71 17.79 168.91 2.82
13 4 1.4 16.01 22.42 215.17 3.59
14 4 1.4 20.18 28.25 273.45 4.56
15 4 1.4 25.42 35.59 346.89 5.78
16 4 1.4 32.03 44.84 439.42 7.32
17 4 1.4 40.36 56.50 556.01 9.27
18 4 1.4 50.85 71.19 702.91 11.72
19 4 1.4 64.07 89.70 888.01 14.80
20 4 1.4 80.73 113.02 1,121.23 18.69

Sorry about the horrible formatting...

All jumps are 4 light years. First column the number of jumps. Second column jump distance. Third column the fatigue number for that jump. Fourth Column is the previous fatigue value. Fifth colum the final fatigue value for that jump. Sixth column minutes to get fatigue under 1, and the last colum converts the sixth colum to the closest hour (e.g. minutes to reduce fatigue/60).

Of course this assumes you don't wait till fatigue is below 1 on every jump. If you do that, it would help control fatigue. Of course, having several JF pilots does the samething without the 5 or so minutes of waiting between each jump.
Volmyr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4368 - 2014-10-02 22:11:55 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
The thread is slowing down. I think people raged themselves to sleep


they'll wake back up soon
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#4369 - 2014-10-02 22:12:02 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
You can choose to ignore everyone else, at your own risk, or you can be asocial and use your own alts. Or you could just ask in intel channels for intel, or get some friends in your corp and actually have them help you.

Continue not exercising those critical thinking skills. I think it will really pay off for you one day.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4370 - 2014-10-02 22:12:18 UTC
Arcturus Helio wrote:
CCP Greyscale, is the idea of putting fatigue on a ship hull and not being able to repackage the ship until fatigue is cleared even begin considered? This seems like a decent idea to me but I was wondering if CCP gave it any merit.

Fatigue has to be on the pilots for the restrictions to matter. Otherwise you just end up doing a rapid relay of hulls down to wherever you want to be. Which, for large and well financed alliances / coalitions, essentially means no restriction at all.

Isk can not be used as a balancing measure for things like that. Supercaps Online is proof enough of that already.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Tempest Borne
Sarz'na Khumatari
#4371 - 2014-10-02 22:12:39 UTC
Is this a troll?

There is some convoluted sense to cooldown. 5 ly nerf on jumps? Talk about making sure people congregate on the edges of high sec....
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4372 - 2014-10-02 22:12:50 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
The thread is slowing down. I think people raged themselves to sleep


We are worreid about our rage fatigue timers. P
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#4373 - 2014-10-02 22:12:54 UTC
Querns wrote:
I think once a year is maybe too harsh -- maybe 4 times a year? Otherwise, this is good -- having an emergency podjump is a good way to assist folks in frogging out when they are truly alone.


Once a year is more than enough: this will be useful for people joining the game after a hiatus only to find that what used to be "home" is now deep in "red" territory.

Four times a year caters to redeployment of active forces. For that function, install jump clones. You get up to 10 of them now.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#4374 - 2014-10-02 22:13:56 UTC
BuddyKnife wrote:
All problems in the game can be traced to players moving to where other players are so gates and capitals should be removed from the game.

Actually, it can be traced to players undocking. Remove the players ability to undock, and bring back WiS. Change the name of the game to Sim City: Party on top of the World.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#4375 - 2014-10-02 22:14:47 UTC
TimeDrawsNigh wrote:

....
So e.g.
Jump 1 > 4.19 LY > delay timer of 6.42min > cumulative time 6.42min
Jump 2 > 4.7 LY > delay timer of 9.72 min > cumulative time 16.14min
Jump 3 > 4.206 LY > delay timer of 11.73 min > cumulative time 27.86min
Jump 5 > 4.564 LY > delay timer of 13.28 min > cumulative time 41.14min
Jump 6 > 1.855 LY > delay timer of 14.15 min > cumulative time 55.29min

Notice the increase in time getting smaller but the time overall still get longer. Bit like the diminishing returns of stacking nerf.

This is waaaay too soft. It wouldn't impact the current meta at all.
Taziar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4376 - 2014-10-02 22:16:41 UTC
Erufen Rito wrote:
BuddyKnife wrote:
All problems in the game can be traced to players moving to where other players are so gates and capitals should be removed from the game.

Actually, it can be traced to players undocking. Remove the players ability to undock, and bring back WiS. Change the name of the game to Sim City: Party on top of the World.

Obviously the real problem here is people being able to login. This needs to be stopped.
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#4377 - 2014-10-02 22:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ravcharas
BuddyKnife wrote:
All problems in the game can be traced to players moving to where other players are so gates and capitals should be removed from the game.

My like-button is gone from all posts - presumably it's a conspiracy - so I cannot upthumb this. But if I could I would, and if you can you should.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4378 - 2014-10-02 22:18:43 UTC
Vhaine Vhindiscar wrote:
Varesk wrote:
Can you make it so Supers can dock in stations now? It would be nice to be able to use that character for other things.


This, it's bad enough you essentially killed these guys investments. Such is Eve. It worse that you've destroyed the reason for their ship class, yet still doom them to their space coffins. At least let them dock up and grab a rifter so they can move 8-9 systems with a loosing a few hours of their life.

Why would they need a Rifter to do that? They can just fly their shiny Super / Titan through the gate. It's like a Rifter, just, yanno, slower and bigger.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Moni Deschain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4379 - 2014-10-02 22:19:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Moni Deschain
CCP Greyscale wrote:


You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


edit: damn it, my original post went poof -_-

This still seems like a faiyl long time to wait. What if when you went to move your clone to a new station there was a message like "We need time to process your medical paperwork. Medical clone will be transfered to wherever in x hours", where the amount of time it takes increases as the target station is further away.

There could be a minimum of 12-24 hours. You couldn't just podjump to make it to a battle, but you also wouldn't need to worry about using up your one medclone transfer for the year. Sort of like the jumpclone cooldown but before you transfer instead of after.

And once a year you could maybe get 'priority status' where your clone transfer takes 24 hours no matter where you're going. So if you join a new corp several regions away you can join them in 24 hours instead of 2-3 days or however long it would take.

If you need to get somewhere in a hurry, it the fastest way would be travelling yourself, but if you have time to kill you can change your medclone station and just wait.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#4380 - 2014-10-02 22:20:03 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.

An entire year's cooldown on something that you might definitely need more often than that in a big war. Not cool IMO.

What about: if you've been stuck in a station (i.e. haven't docked anywhere else or left the system) for some number of days, perhaps 5 or 7, you have the option to move your medical clone to your highsec NPC station of origin from whence you first entered the game.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature