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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#4401 - 2014-10-02 22:31:58 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
with the level of coverage this thread has received i feel pretty stongly that there will be several interations... even if the op makes it in the patch unchaged...


Expect the "iterations" to be tweaks to maximum jump distance, length of timers, timer decay rates, and the formula for increasing those timers. I wouldn't expect a massive change in implementation unless someone comes up with a better system that achieves the same outcome.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#4402 - 2014-10-02 22:32:09 UTC
Ackbarre wrote:
I predict that after all the capital pilots unsub. That CCP finishes WiS and allow players to strip and have sex to generate revenue.


my main had 150 mill sp with perfect carrier/dread skills and i am not going anywhere... only thing that bugs me is the logistics nerf to the Carrier...

I really hope they upgrade the rorq to compensate.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Grognard Commissar
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#4403 - 2014-10-02 22:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Grognard Commissar
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.

in other words, you won't be able to set your clone in a station without a medbay. which mean about 70% of all stations can't have a medclone. it may be somewhat workable, but wouldn't it be better to restrict setting medclones to stations within a constellation?
otherwise, the med-stations will be camped solid by wartargets and CODE. , locking pretty much everyone into the station.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4404 - 2014-10-02 22:34:06 UTC
Wait, I get it. I finally understand the Dev exodus to Riot games.

You can't jump for 50 minutes? Might as well play some League of Legends in the meantime.
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4405 - 2014-10-02 22:34:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalilus
Bring back the old doomsday..... Let nullbears "pipe bomb" themselves, their isk farms, their pos, their customs offices, etc to death 1000 times and they will learn their lesson, or not. Big smile What's the worst that can happen? That all nullbears turn blue to each other? Like right now? LOL.

The real problem is that ccp is run by nullbears, the csm and other alphabet soup entites related to the game are also run by nullbears and their pr machine run by nullbear exploits. Nullbears have created a game with all types of entitlements and minimal risk for nullbears having to prey on non nullbears to have fun. What a concept, there must be a reason no one in real life runs a company that way.....unless it's a thug run company in a thuggish country, not a subscription pay to play game.

It's funny that the best idea brought to the table by nullbears is to slow down the free movement of nullbears, lol, while keeping everything else the way that it is and even funnier, nullbears discussing the changes with other nullbears. You don't cure foot fungus by slowing down how much moisture seeps into a boot, you cure foot fungus by stopping all moisture seeping in, drying and aerating the boot and feet and by applying medicine. Not by having the fungus ask itself at what speed it wants to spread.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4406 - 2014-10-02 22:36:19 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:

An entire year's cooldown on something that you might definitely need more often than that in a big war. Not cool IMO.

There's these things called Interceptors. I hear that you can get from one end of the universe to the other in under an hour using them. In an age where it takes an hour for your jump fatigue to wear off from a single max range jump, they'd probably be pretty handy.

Of course, that would mean taking some level of risk and not being able to respond instantly to events on the other side of New Eden at a moment's notice.

Which might, of course, make it difficult to defend large sprawling empires.

My goodness - that can't be what CCP is going for with these changes, could it?!?!?!?!Shocked

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
#4407 - 2014-10-02 22:36:27 UTC
fyi - not in a big alliance, or even null at the moment, have experienced both though and been involved in large cap fights and alliance level logistics....

Valan Kenobi wrote:
Now as for those that is saying that you will not be able to deliver to the systems that need supplies. That is not there problem or yours. What that means is that all the people in those systems will have to leave and go to the system that does have the supplies. More risk, more combat, more explosions. Null was seen to be a place of fear. Now it’s a place of who you know.


It really, really doesn't work like this and it never will. First of all, if you are right (and you're not) and these large alliances did shrink, they would pull into these deep, back (most profitable, safest) pockets, why on earth would they abandon them? they will work around the logistics problem. The issue is that the work-around simply isn't fun.

There are two types of players in eve that are involved with large corp/alliance level logistics, a very small subset of players that actually enjoy it, and the majority that do it because they know it needs doing so they help out. As it is today, this isn't a horribly fun task already, jumping around to refuel and remove goo from 12 different towers from your corp is slow, boring and tedious, doing it post-change means you have to sit around for 30minutes in each POS waiting for your fatigue to fade (assuming you can still reach all the towers with the new 5ly range). So now, poor little johnny logistics guy spends his entire play-session only refuling 1/5 of the corps towers, more people (who don't want to even be involved with logistics) have to now spend hours of their time doing it too.

Valan Kenobi wrote:
Also what this is going to do is cause all the systems in the outer ring to empty out. Where all the nice Ore, Ice , and combat sites are. This will allow for people that are High sec or Low sec to be able to cyno out there, stay a few days. Since the timer will require that they stay there for a few days, Make ISK and then Jump back. Making it more of a Industrial place, hence making the Roqual more of a valuable option of use.


If again, you were right (and you're still not) and the alliances held the areas next to low-sec and abandoned the deep-null, how exactly are people meant to get out there with such limited jump range, they would have to light multiple cyno's through hostile space that is filled with upset and bored capital pilots who daydream about shooting another capital again, if they saw a cyno go up in their neighborhood abandoned null,sec, they would definitely go out there and murder them all.

Valan Kenobi wrote:
This is a great upset to all you big alliances and I do not feel for you. The ability to jump into fights from such great distances has been a broken part of this game for a while now. And I am glad to see that it is coming to a glorious end. I am looking forward to watching all the great Titans blow up, and I am more excited to use capital ships for what they were meant to be used for. Not just as transportation insane travel against the stars. Let’s watch as the Coalitions fall apart, and grand alliances break from the stress.


Again, I've not seen a single person in this thread complain that things are "fine the way they are", no one is crying and begging for it to not change, everyone who is complaining is complaining about how they want to change it.

Yes, power projection is too good, yes, it needs to be nerfed/changed, yes, it is wrong that a few huge groups in eve can basically go from Vale to Stain inside of 10 minutes, yes, this should be changed the point though is that the proposed change is f'ing terrible.
Athay Huren
Bad Taste Aquarium
#4408 - 2014-10-02 22:36:36 UTC
Megarom wrote:
TDLR; I think there is a better model for that mathemathics involved.


how about this

TimeDrawsNigh wrote:
Counter proposal for the jump delay timer.

Link below is a google excel doc. of cumulative delay timer that incrementally gets longer with each jump.

http://bit.ly/1rOpzTs

It’s a logarithmic scale.

So when you jump you get two timers.

First timer is the jump drive timer; the second timer is jump drive activation delay.

The jump drive timer is a base 30 minutes and every time you make a jump it will record the amount and add +1 to the "Jumps Made Since Timer Began" value. The jump drive timer will reset back to 30 min every time you make a new jump.
The jump drive activation delay is the timer you get once you have jumped. It’s the time you have to wait till the next jump can be made.

The equation for this is below.

http://i.imgur.com/EQpv4Cv.png

The principal of what happens here is that your delay timer gets bigger with each jump. The increment between each subsequent timer gets smaller, causing the graph to plateau out into a logarithmic curve. Eventually after so many jumps the delay timer will reach the same value as the jump drive timer, at which point it’s better with it out entirely and then start the process over.

Initially we found a problem with the function where doing three really short distance jumps would make the times later overall shorter but that has been fixed with the “Jump Amount Modifier.”

So e.g.
Jump 1 > 4.19 LY > delay timer of 6.42min > cumulative time 6.42min
Jump 2 > 4.7 LY > delay timer of 9.72 min > cumulative time 16.14min
Jump 3 > 4.206 LY > delay timer of 11.73 min > cumulative time 27.86min
Jump 5 > 4.564 LY > delay timer of 13.28 min > cumulative time 41.14min
Jump 6 > 1.855 LY > delay timer of 14.15 min > cumulative time 55.29min

Notice the increase in time getting smaller but the time overall still get longer. Bit like the diminishing returns of stacking nerf.

This Post and Equation was worked on by Sieonigh and myself.

Edit: We made this formula under the assumption that Jump Freighters and Rorquals do NOT have the 90% reduction, rather we think Black Ops should have this reduction (which we're implementing).
Isengrimus
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#4409 - 2014-10-02 22:37:32 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
Wait, I get it. I finally understand the Dev exodus to Riot games.

You can't jump for 50 minutes? Might as well play some League of Legends in the meantime.



It's called a cartel and is illegal in the Union of Civilised European Countries
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4410 - 2014-10-02 22:37:55 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Ackbarre wrote:
I predict that after all the capital pilots unsub. That CCP finishes WiS and allow players to strip and have sex to generate revenue.

Jade Constantwhine will finally have his empire back.

I'd rejoin Jericho Fraction for that.

At least as long as we could use Gewn Tears for lube during our victory orgies.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#4411 - 2014-10-02 22:38:05 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
with the level of coverage this thread has received i feel pretty stongly that there will be several interations... even if the op makes it in the patch unchaged...


Expect the "iterations" to be tweaks to maximum jump distance, length of timers, timer decay rates, and the formula for increasing those timers. I wouldn't expect a massive change in implementation unless someone comes up with a better system that achieves the same outcome.


well yeah... ways to make the formula better... I fully support the idea but everything can always use a polishing pass.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Polo Marco
Four Winds
#4412 - 2014-10-02 22:38:09 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
with the level of coverage this thread has received i feel pretty stongly that there will be several interations... even if the op makes it in the patch unchaged...


Expect the "iterations" to be tweaks to maximum jump distance, length of timers, timer decay rates, and the formula for increasing those timers. I wouldn't expect a massive change in implementation unless someone comes up with a better system that achieves the same outcome.



Did you read this?


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5078735#post5078735

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#4413 - 2014-10-02 22:38:14 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Roman Lynch wrote:
Eigenvalue wrote:
Roman Lynch wrote:
All I have heard about so far is how nobody will be able to use there supers or caps any more.

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT AT ALL! blah blah blah you are going to have to wait! Else.... blah blah blah !

blah blah blah YOU ARE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT! blah blah blah !

blah blah blah


That's a great idea! EVE Online: Pheobe - The Waiting Game

Sounds like a lot of fun to me!



funny how you took out the parts after that. The ones that said "OR USE THE GATES!"

Fox news is hiring....

You could replace the last with "OR USE THE SELF DESTRUCT BUTTON" and, in a lot of cases, it would be just as accurate.

Yes, you can have scouts. Yes, you can have escorts. But, you can't have these things all the time (Unless you're telling me to buy another account, in which case, #$%& you as there's too much of that BS in the game already; if CCP wants to require multiple alts to play the game, then that's what the base subscription should cover)

So that means the default is waiting someplace safe for your fatigue to go down. And when you're piloting a 7-billion ISK ship with no defensive capabilities and several billion more ISK in the hull, that's still a competitive proposition even when you have a proper escort set up.



Wait... wait... you don't have a scout or an alt... so how the **** do you cyno? And what do you so while you are waititng for yoru friend to get in position so you can cyno? You do understand that it will be pretty much the same except whoever is your damn cyno can scout for you as you move a bit closer while waititng for your next cyno to be lite right?

Good lord.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Ginger Barbarella
#4414 - 2014-10-02 22:38:46 UTC
Eigenvalue wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
Everyone in the game: Please fix game nao?!
CCP: OK We Fix Nao.
Everyone in the game: NO! FIX BAD!

Shocked


You, sir, have a very strange definition for "everyone". Try, "everyone = cap pilots in large null alliances"


I think you mean "cap pilots in small alliances"

Large alliances won't be impacted, they'll just establish cross regional caches with jump clones installed at the currently meaningful caches.


I'm sure you've read that jumping to a new clone does NOT affect the fatigue timers. Blink

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

KBLUEJACK54
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4415 - 2014-10-02 22:39:24 UTC
I thought you chumps wanted to expand Null Sec availability to players not Nerf it to such an extent it became worthless to own.

In general terms this Nerf applied to Combat Capital ships was probably going to be a good thing, applying it to Non Combat jump capable ships is probably the most detrimental thing I have ever heard CCP Dev's come out with in the years I have been playing EVE.

On the good side, 'For them that is' this Nerf when they force it through, and have no doubt the idiots will do just that, will render the need to correct Sov Mechanics unnecessary, Sov will collapse under it's own weight, No Sov negates the need for Alliances so solves that issue also.

Solves the PvE issue as well, no Sov means no security PvE will diminish to the back waters of EVE history then as everyone will be flying T1 ships, no PvE no T2 production that solves the market hub issues and as it cascades down through all levels of the game there is one good thing that will come out of this.

The need for constant game improvements will also fade away, who of us ever saw an upgrade to any FPS, even one with bling like what Eve has become so the need for these pesky Devs will diminish, a fact I doubt has not been lost on CCP management so EVE players will be able to settle into a daily round of buying there ships in station, undock, get killed, log off, rinse and repeat tomorrow safe in the knowledge that all the Devs have been made redundant happy they got just what they asked for.

Hubris or Sophrosyne..... Come on Greyscale I challenge you directly to choose which applies to you lot here.
Gus Machado
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#4416 - 2014-10-02 22:39:40 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Gus Machado wrote:
Bacchanalian wrote:
Tell me whose babies I need to have. This is amazing. Finally a chance to shake up nullsec for the smaller fish in the pond using proper guerrilla tactics.


yup 150 man gate camps with sensor boosted ships using 60,000,000 scan res here we come.
its seems like its 2009 again.


Step 1: Use a scout

Step 2: as soon as you find a gate camp use a cyno alt to jump several system past the "Choke"

Step 3: ????

Step 4: Profit


right only one thing you missed we were sergeons when it comes to covering all the choke points so bring it lol keep feeding us the kills.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4417 - 2014-10-02 22:41:12 UTC
Isengrimus wrote:
Tempest Borne wrote:
Is this a troll?

There is some convoluted sense to cooldown. 5 ly nerf on jumps? Talk about making sure people congregate on the edges of high sec....


A valid point. Without the ability to bypass the "borderlands", the remote areas of nullsec will become even more stagnat - as even if a small group conquers them thanks to the proposed changes to the capital blob, they won't be able to live there due to lack of supplies and non-existing trade routes. (Yes, I am repeating myself).

Dear Greyscale, what's your flexibility when it comes to extending JF and Rorqual (and possibly another non-combat ship that could carry fitted subcaps) jump range?

1. Use wormholes.

2. Use BLOPS, which have a longer range.

3. Go around the gatecamps through a pipe that's not currently camped as heavily. In your Nano Nidhoggur gang.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#4418 - 2014-10-02 22:42:09 UTC
CCP Greyscale, I just have one question: what happened to discussions of cyno spool-up?

One of the problems with power projection is the ability to instantly add ships to a fight. The fact that one capital fleet in Providence has the ability to be anywhere in the region in one jump doesn't cause as much concern as the fact that the entire fleet can be at that "anywhere" within seconds.

RDevz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4419 - 2014-10-02 22:42:43 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
Wait, I get it. I finally understand the Dev exodus to Riot games.

You can't jump for 50 minutes? Might as well play some League of Legends in the meantime.


Speaking of which, Greyscale: Pro click zone

It's for the greater good.

~

Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#4420 - 2014-10-02 22:43:28 UTC
Hmmm I'm nowhere near convinced this is a good idea.

So the maximum jump range is now 5KM - I'm not very good on my in EVE distances but that must put most null sec regions/systems out of reach forcing you to use the Low-Null bottlenecks. Fantastic news for gate campers but a nightmare for people who need to haul crap in and out of null. Also favours larger alliances who have the man power to be able to do this, I dont see this benefiting smaller appliances trying to push their way into null.

  • If I build a dreadnought out in null sec I now need a small fleet of people to get through the camps and a small army of cyno alts to move it around and get it to low sec to sell. Its not worth the hassle and local markets in null sec are pretty awful.
  • Same for POS fuel - unless you make all towers identical there is always going to be one used over the other - so massive bonus if you live in the right isotope region - pain if you dont.


What about the regions at the edge of known space like Branch, Cobalt Edge, Omist etc that are fecking miles away. Are you really expecting us to fly capitals all the way down there? Its a massive pain taking an interceptor let alone one of the slowest ships in the game and that's before you even add in roaming hostiles. Yes its 'quicker' to cyno across some areas but its still going to be an monster pain.

Are there any plans to improve null sec the further from empire you get in an effort to try and push the more powerful alliances further out? If you dont I see the outer regions just stagnating, like much of null sec currently is now, as the bigger alliances sit on the near-empire space and simply rent out the harder to maintain regions.

The other issue with null sec that needs to be addressed are the large power blocks/alliances but that's another discussion.