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Prototype: Dojos

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Chirality Tisteloin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#801 - 2014-09-27 15:36:00 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
There are still a lot of questions so I try to summarize what I know.

  • Just a mobile depot with a new function. CCP Veritas already said it's easier to take already existing stuff and modify it a little to get a somehow functional prototype. I don't think any stat of that structure has any relevance at the moment.
    • You deploy that thing and put a lot of ships and modules in it.
  • Select 'Busisness' > 'Calculator' from Neocom (yes it's a Prototype).
  • A new window opens where you can select the dojo you want to use. All dojo in system are accessible. Select Dojo of your choice. [img]
  • A new window opens where you see the Charges, Ships and Modules in that dojo, all your saved fitting, a small are with your name and status. [img]
  • If you have a fitting that can completely be fitted with stuf in that dojo it is shown as available.
  • Select fitting, click ready and wait.
  • Someone else joins the same dojo, selcts a fitting and clicks ready.
  • You both are teleported from station (Doesn't work from space. Both participants must be in a station or bad bugs happen, because of prototype) to a random (every time new) deadspace pocket somewhere in the solar systen. Both sit at 0km on a beacon in that pocket (again, because prototype)
  • A new window opens with a 45 second timer (warm up). No one can move, but you can activate modules. You can leave your ship, but your pod can't move either. You can board you ship again. (Please don't ask about MJD and stuff, it's a prototype and not a balanced and tested feature) (You can **** around a little bit with logging out and stuff, but this are just some exploits that have no meaning to the feature itself)
  • Everyone reloads his guns, because the charges of the selected fitting are in your cargo.
  • 45 seconds are over a new 5 minutes timer starts.
  • Fight begins. You can move and can lock your target (wasn't possible while warm up).
  • Flying >125km away from the beacon makes your ship go boom and you lose -> Match ends. Losing makes your ship go boom and you lose -> Match ends. Winning makes the enemy go boom and you win -> Match ends. Waiting for the 5min timer make both go boom -> Match ends.
  • The match result itself has absolutally no meaning at the moment. The match just ends and everyone wakes up in his old original clone in station.

  • The deadspace pocket disappears immideatelly after the match ends. So making a bookmark and warping to it gives you a safespot and nothing more. No beacon, no wreack, nothing there.
  • Warping to a someone in your fleet who is in a fight a deadspace pocket, warps you to the dojo.
  • Stats of the dojo doesn't matter, because it' just a mobile depot with a bazzilion of m3 to make the prototype work
  • As mentioned above, there are a lot of ways to exploit that prototype. It may be because it's a prototype, who knows... Roll

I hope it can clear up some confusion about the state and implementation of this prototype (not feature).


It's interesting how a lot of people here don't know how it works, didn't try it on duality and don't understand what the word 'prototype' means, but still are throwing tantrum like bonkers.



Nice Info! I am trying it on Duality but I don't get the macth-making screen to open. Anything you experienced that I might need to do? My dojo is stocked.

Cheers, Chira.

See you at my blog: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#802 - 2014-09-27 15:49:59 UTC
If these ever hit TQ, they should be for Corp/Alliance tournaments only and be on a semi-annual distribution schedule.
Using the same restrictions as alliance logos, should cost about 5 plex and last one week.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#803 - 2014-09-27 16:29:27 UTC
Sierra Payne wrote:


Honestly I see it like the following,

What happens when you're a new player with no experience in PVP yet you want to learn how to be more effective at flying your ships. Your friend invites you to the dojo so that you can practice a bit more before heading out into the wild and PVP properly against all kind of matchups. Suddenly the quality of pilots rises because they learned better how to fly, making your PVP life more challenging and exciting.

Win/Win across the board, provided it's implemented with no rewards or benefits to other people.


Yeah in the same way doing karate on a saturday prepares you for a riot after a foot ball match...Roll

please not on TQ.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#804 - 2014-09-27 16:32:20 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
If these ever hit TQ, they should be for Corp/Alliance tournaments only and be on a semi-annual distribution schedule.
Using the same restrictions as alliance logos, should cost about 5 plex and last one week.


Yep CCP should add insane restrictions to this because you don't like it. Roll

I have a Ph.D
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#805 - 2014-09-27 16:36:39 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:

Yeah in the same way doing karate on a saturday prepares you for a riot after a foot ball match...Roll

please not on TQ.


You are implying that PVP in eve is always equal to a riot after a football match, which is wrong.

Even if it was the case, learning to control your ship and becoming good at stuff like manual piloting, slingshoting etc might save you someday.

I know it might be hard to understand if all you do is log in to jump to a cyno and press F1 but try to focus. Roll

I have a Ph.D
Kasarch
Techno Hive
Legion of xXDEATHXx
#806 - 2014-09-27 16:47:47 UTC
Arenas? Are you seriously? When you split eve cluster to different instances?
Also you need to remove space travels and make button "Fight" like in world of tanks.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#807 - 2014-09-27 16:54:00 UTC
Kasarch wrote:
Arenas? Are you seriously? When you split eve cluster to different instances?
Also you need to remove space travels and make button "Fight" like in world of tanks.


You shouldn't use logical fallacies if you want people to take you seriously : https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

Try to make logical and compelling arguments against dojos.

Good luck with that. Roll

I have a Ph.D
Josef Djugashvilis
#808 - 2014-09-27 17:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Dear Bamboozled, you might try to respect the fact that many of the folk posting in this thread simply do not like the idea of special snow flake pvp arenas on TQ.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but simply spamming this thread is not best way to show your support for special snow flake pvp arenas.

Keep them on SiSi or a new special snow flake pvp arena server and all will be fine.

This is not a signature.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#809 - 2014-09-27 17:44:18 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear Bamboozled, you might try to respect the fact that many of the folk posting in this thread simply do not like the idea of special snowflakepvp arenas on TQ.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but simply spamming this thread is not best way to support your support for special snow flake pvp arenas.

Keep them on SiSi or a new special snow flake pvp arena server and all will be fine.


There is a difference between having an opinion and posting poor, unresearched posts full of logical fallacies.

You have something against dojos? You think CCP shouldn't implement them? Fine, but use logical and compelling arguments instead of leveraging fear with doom and gloom comments.

I wouldn't have to come here and highlight poor posting from people that dislike consensual pvp out of self-entitlement and common misconceptions about what is eve.

This is what you can do in Eve Online consensual pvp in eve exist since 2005, solo pvp videos and AT/NEO stream are popular, you don't like consensual pvp? Good for you, but it's part of the sandbox and it's not "un-eve" just because in your eyes "your way to play is the only way to play".

Ironically, eve is all about risk vs reward a lot of people posting against dojos are extremely risk-averse. Roll

Please try to focus.

I have a Ph.D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#810 - 2014-09-27 17:50:52 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear Bamboozled, you might try to respect the fact that many of the folk posting in this thread simply do not like the idea of special snowflakepvp arenas on TQ.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but simply spamming this thread is not best way to support your support for special snow flake pvp arenas.

Keep them on SiSi or a new special snow flake pvp arena server and all will be fine.


There is a difference between having an opinion and posting poor, unresearched posts full of logical fallacies.

You have something against dojos? You think CCP shouldn't implement them? Fine, but use logical and compelling arguments instead of leveraging fear with doom and gloom comments.

I wouldn't have to come here and highlight poor posting from people that dislike consensual pvp out of self-entitlement and common misconceptions about what is eve.

This is what you can do in Eve Online consensual pvp in eve exist since 2005, solo pvp videos and AT/NEO stream are popular, you don't like consensual pvp? Good for you, but it's part of the sandbox and it's not "un-eve" just because in your eyes "your way to play is the only way to play".

Ironically, eve is all about risk vs reward a lot of people posting against dojos are extremely risk-averse. Roll

Please try to focus.


AT is not part of the sandbox, they are a stand alone event hosted by CCP in space we have no access to using tools have had no access to. There has never been any point in the last 14 years in which we have had consensual PvP on Tranq. The only people looking for risk free PvP are people who want to lock out everyone else from their honourable PvP 1v1 matches.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#811 - 2014-09-27 18:01:19 UTC
See, I thought sisi WAS the special snowflake fight place, to try new things out. No risk of loss, no worries, just shoot.

This dojo has a cost, the ships inside would be bought and paid for, all of that is at risk. The cost would have to be made up in other ways so players would still have to go out into the great big space and earn/find it. This is not an isolating mechanism but something that may convince people to play again.

If it ever went live I would see 3rd party ladders and betting spring up. Bush leagues and sandlot games.

Recreational softball does not hurt the Major leagues. A small dojo is not going to hurt Eve. I honestly am having difficulty seeing the issues the opponents of this prototype are worried about. That, in itself, worries me because usually I can see things from the other side.

Risk? It is there
Abuse of a safe spot? For 5 minutes then boom
Will take all the PvP fun from our space? See next line
Is just for carebears who want to be safe? Well then you are teaching them to take acceptable (to them) risks.
It goes against the Basic Principles of Eve? Dad taught me never to argue religion with strangers.

Can someone lay aside the rhtoric and explain to me exactly HOW this would break Eve if it ever came to pass?
Can the rest of you calm down as this is a prototype . . .

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Josef Djugashvilis
#812 - 2014-09-27 18:02:26 UTC
Dear Baltec 1, troubled times make for strange friends.

Your post above pretty much sums up what is so very, very wrong with special snow flake pvp on TQ.

This is not a signature.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#813 - 2014-09-27 18:03:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

AT is not part of the sandbox, they are a stand alone event hosted by CCP in space we have no access to using tools have had no access to. There has never been any point in the last 14 years in which we have had consensual PvP on Tranq. The only people looking for risk free PvP are people who want to lock out everyone else from their honourable PvP 1v1 matches.


They started being hosted by CCP for technical reasons, dojos should make it easy for us (players) to run our own tournaments.
If you think eve never had consensual pvp then you should research your subject, maybe join the bringing solo back channel, or look at player run tournaments/duels.

I bet you also cry that you can't blob the AT teams. Roll

Factual data that disprove your post : http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/caldari-championships-the-first-day/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLsZPl9lYIQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5yIRU7-794

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4057108

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=373886

And more...

Please, research your subject before posting. Roll

I have a Ph.D
Josef Djugashvilis
#814 - 2014-09-27 18:05:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Mike Azariah wrote:
See, I thought sisi WAS the special snowflake fight place, to try new things out. No risk of loss, no worries, just shoot.

This dojo has a cost, the ships inside would be bought and paid for, all of that is at risk. The cost would have to be made up in other ways so players would still have to go out into the great big space and earn/find it. This is not an isolating mechanism but something that may convince people to play again.

If it ever went live I would see 3rd party ladders and betting spring up. Bush leagues and sandlot games.

Recreational softball does not hurt the Major leagues. A small dojo is not going to hurt Eve. I honestly am having difficulty seeing the issues the opponents of this prototype are worried about. That, in itself, worries me because usually I can see things from the other side.

Risk? It is there
Abuse of a safe spot? For 5 minutes then boom
Will take all the PvP fun from our space? See next line
Is just for carebears who want to be safe? Well then you are teaching them to take acceptable (to them) risks.
It goes against the Basic Principles of Eve? Dad taught me never to argue religion with strangers.

Can someone lay aside the rhtoric and explain to me exactly HOW this would break Eve if it ever came to pass?
Can the rest of you calm down as this is a prototype . . .

m


Keep it on SiSi and there is no problem.

Big leagues, little leagues, middle leagues, so long as it never comes to TQ, have fun.

This is not a signature.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#815 - 2014-09-27 18:08:18 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

Keep it on SiSi and there is no problem.

Big leagues, little leagues, middle leagues, so long as it never comes to TQ, have fun.


You didn't not post a single valid argument about why it shouldn't come to TQ. Roll

Please feel free to reply to my last post to you, I'll wait for your reply.

I have a Ph.D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#816 - 2014-09-27 18:09:54 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:


Can someone lay aside the rhtoric and explain to me exactly HOW this would break Eve if it ever came to pass?
Can the rest of you calm down as this is a prototype . . .

m


No MMO has ever managed to add arena PvP and not have it have a disastrous effect upon the wider world PvP. The reason why many are very anti arena is because we have been through all of this before.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#817 - 2014-09-27 18:11:51 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

AT is not part of the sandbox, they are a stand alone event hosted by CCP in space we have no access to using tools have had no access to. There has never been any point in the last 14 years in which we have had consensual PvP on Tranq. The only people looking for risk free PvP are people who want to lock out everyone else from their honourable PvP 1v1 matches.


They started being hosted by CCP for technical reasons, dojos should make it easy for us (players) to run our own tournaments.
If you think eve never had consensual pvp then you should research your subject, maybe join the bringing solo back channel, or look at player run tournaments/duels.

I bet you also cry that you can't blob the AT teams. Roll

Factual data that disprove your post : http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/caldari-championships-the-first-day/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLsZPl9lYIQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5yIRU7-794

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4057108

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=373886

And more...

Please, research your subject before posting. Roll


Please post the mechanic that is on tranq right now or at any point in the last 14 years that is both available to everyone and stops others from interacting with you while your are in space and in combat with another player.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#818 - 2014-09-27 18:17:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Please post the mechanic that is on tranq right now or at any point in the last 14 years that is both available to everyone and stops others from interacting with you while your are in space and in combat with another player.


Please do not use logical fallacies against me : https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

You made a statement : consensual pvp doesn't exist in eve, I proved you wrong with publicly available factual data and you answer back with a logical fallacy? Roll

Please try to focus.

I have a Ph.D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#819 - 2014-09-27 18:21:27 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Please post the mechanic that is on tranq right now or at any point in the last 14 years that is both available to everyone and stops others from interacting with you while your are in space and in combat with another player.


Please do not use logical fallacies against me : https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

You made a statement : consensual pvp doesn't exist in eve, I proved you wrong with publicly available factual data and you answer back with a logical fallacy? Roll

Please try to focus.


Yea you did no such thing and throwing around phases such as "logical fallacies" does nothing to back up your argument. Its a very simple questions that is easily answered, the fact that you cannot just shows that you are just wasting everyone's time.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#820 - 2014-09-27 18:23:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

No MMO has ever managed to add arena PvP and not have it have a disastrous effect upon the wider world PvP. The reason why many are very anti arena is because we have been through all of this before.


It's a terrible analogy considering in eve online there is an incentive to go to the"open world", literally 90% of the game is in the open world.

Dojos won't magically remove :

- FW

- Exploration

- Corp roams

- Defending your sov

- Hauling

- PI

- Big wars in nullsec

- Solo pvp against the odds

- Baiting/Blobbing

Terrible doom and gloom comment and logcial fallacy ; "eve will die if you don't agree with me"Roll

I have a Ph.D