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Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

First post
Author
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1061 - 2016-03-15 12:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ploing
CCP Lebowski wrote:

CCP Dev
Thanks for the bug report,

I have been unable to observe any negative difference in cap usage between the two fits you provided in the thread. However I did see that the reduced web strength was having a minor effect on the speed at which I could destroy the NPC.

Hope this helps!

CCP Lebowski


What?
Toddle
Moosed it
#1062 - 2016-03-15 20:28:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Toddle
If NOS is broken there won't be any difference between two current fits.

A small T2 NOS at optimal should provide 4GJ/s cap recharge. It isn't. Not even 0.5GJ/s. AKA broken.

And 'negative difference in cap usage'? Doesn't even sound like he/she was testing NOS.

[edit] Still haven't gotten another Cruor burner... would be nice to post some neut cycle time numbers with/without NOS.
Evaldor
Monks of War
Siberian Squads
#1063 - 2016-03-15 21:16:20 UTC
Ploing wrote:
Evaldor wrote:


Can yu gime me som ideas that to do to kill Dramiel or maybe fit for another ship :)


ccp lebowsski is on it about the cap prob.

but if you want to try another ship Blink

[Succubus, burner dramiel beater all V]
Heat Sink II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

1MN Afterburner II
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Stasis Webifier II
Gistum B-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier

Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Small Ghoul Compact Energy Nosferatu

Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

as u kite the dram with this u have a small transversal. you have to be over 840 m/s with the ab. so perhaps check ur imps and made an upgrade to a faster ab.

coz im living in Null's - imps not a variant. Also not all skills in V :)
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1064 - 2016-03-15 23:06:20 UTC
Toddle wrote:
If NOS is broken there won't be any difference between two current fits.

A small T2 NOS at optimal should provide 4GJ/s cap recharge. It isn't. Not even 0.5GJ/s. AKA broken.

And 'negative difference in cap usage'? Doesn't even sound like he/she was testing NOS.

[edit] Still haven't gotten another Cruor burner... would be nice to post some neut cycle time numbers with/without NOS.



running a similar fit against cruor and noticed the last days that its not going over 10 cap. for sure its worse than before patch.
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1065 - 2016-03-15 23:10:23 UTC
Evaldor wrote:
Ploing wrote:
Evaldor wrote:


Can yu gime me som ideas that to do to kill Dramiel or maybe fit for another ship :)


ccp lebowsski is on it about the cap prob.

but if you want to try another ship Blink

[Succubus, burner dramiel beater all V]
Heat Sink II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

1MN Afterburner II
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Stasis Webifier II
Gistum B-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier

Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Small Ghoul Compact Energy Nosferatu

Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

as u kite the dram with this u have a small transversal. you have to be over 840 m/s with the ab. so perhaps check ur imps and made an upgrade to a faster ab.

coz im living in Null's - imps not a variant. Also not all skills in V :)


so drop a HS for an overdrive to get over the 840 m/s and/or replace the ab. should be working.
Toddle
Moosed it
#1066 - 2016-03-17 17:30:05 UTC
Still no Cruor burner, but I did some testing on Ashimmu burner today, and medium NOS are definitely working as intended.

I then hopped in the test Jag and found a belt rat... the exact same results as posted previously, small NOS are either completely broken or working at less than 10% rated effectiveness.

The Jag tests were conducted within optimal, the Gila vs Ashimmu test was within 500m of optimal.

Murphy please give me a Cruor burner Sad

FWIW:
Without NOS the Gila hit 16-17GJ peak before neut cycle finished.
With NOS it was ~70 or ~110GJ depending on if one or two NOS cycles finished.

[Gila, burner ashimmu]
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Shield Power Relay

Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum B-Type Thermal Dissipation Amplifier
EM Ward Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Corpum C-Type Medium Energy Nosferatu
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II

Toddle
Moosed it
#1067 - 2016-03-17 21:32:58 UTC
I tested out the same medium NOS on a belt rat and it wasn't working.

At this point the only explanation that makes sense is that some (but not all) burners have been given a NOS immune flag and/or cap warfare resistance that wasn't there previous to March update. Goodness knows what other entities have have changed also.

Is this intended?

I have a NOS fit succubus that I use for worm burner, but haven't tried it out since this fiasco started. Will test it next time I see one, of course now it'll join the cruor in the list of burners I've jinxed myself out of...

Also, will bug report it.
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1068 - 2016-03-17 22:03:23 UTC
Toddle wrote:


I have a NOS fit succubus that I use for worm burner, but haven't tried it out since this fiasco started. Will test it next time I see one, of course now it'll join the cruor in the list of burners I've jinxed myself out of...

Also, will bug report it.


provide the bug report with the link to this thread to get lebowski back on that.

for the worm i also use nos fits (suc and enyo) but all went well.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#1069 - 2016-03-17 22:23:42 UTC
I haven't considered nos to be effective vs npcs since the nos nerf in 07 or 08. The only ship I have it on is my gila for the blood base, and that was just because I thought it might generate enough aggro to keep the ashimmu from shooting my drones, any cap it gives is just a bonus to fuel my target painter.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1070 - 2016-03-17 23:06:45 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I haven't considered nos to be effective vs npcs since the nos nerf in 07 or 08. The only ship I have it on is my gila for the blood base, and that was just because I thought it might generate enough aggro to keep the ashimmu from shooting my drones, any cap it gives is just a bonus to fuel my target painter.


thats right, but sometimes you are in need to get more cap and cant use a booster.
Super Hana
All-Out
#1071 - 2016-03-18 06:33:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Super Hana
As of the last patch, I've been unable to kill the Dramiel with a unified daredevil (unable to track it well enough). Most likely due to the web change.
probag Bear
Xiong Offices
#1072 - 2016-03-20 02:33:46 UTC
I'm late to the party, but for me, a week ago, NOSes were working exactly the same as pre-patch on Burner NPCs. I have one on my anti-Cruor fit to power my web and I had no issues.
Toddle
Moosed it
#1073 - 2016-03-20 16:10:47 UTC
Finally got another Cruor burner, just let it orbit me at ~3200m for about 5 minutes with web/guns inactive.

No NOS: cap maxed out at 6-7GJ every 5 sec neut cycle.
With small compact NOS: cap maxed out at 8-12GJ every neut cycle (depending on 1 or 2 NOS cycles). 4000m optimal.

So it's working, but only just... and nowhere near as well as it was before March patch. Appears to only drain 1-2GJ per cycle instead of the pre-patch 9GJ.

Also, I refit the NOS for a rocket launcher and was still able to keep an Enduring webber running.

At this point I think I'll just train hybrids and buy some daredevils.

Test fit:
[Jaguar, Cruor Burner]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Mark I Compact Shield Power Relay
Mark I Compact Shield Power Relay

Gistum C-Type Thermal Dissipation Amplifier
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
EM Ward Amplifier II

200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
Small Ghoul Compact Energy Nosferatu
200mm AutoCannon II

Small Core Defense Field Purger II
Small Core Defense Field Purger II

Republic Fleet Fusion S x4476
Nanite Repair Paste x50
Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x393
Commander Maxter
Rancho Buena Vista
#1074 - 2016-03-21 17:23:46 UTC
Well as of March 21st, or sometime in the week before this date, the Anomic Base "Destroy the Burner Ashimmu and its Henchmen" has changed quite much. The sentinels AND the ashimmu agress drones 100% of the time. I have been using a average fit Gila from this thread for a long time and never lost more than 2-3 tech 1 Vespas. Today I lost all tech 1 Vespas AND my t2 GTFO Vespas all while pointed, thus losing my Gila. I then bought another gila, went in to finish the ashimmu as his sentinels were already dead. Upon deploying my drones he immediately aggressed my vespa 1's again and killed 2 of them before I killed him. So basically from what I am seeing, drones get full agro 100% of the time in this mission now.

Is anyone else seeing this change or did I just experience a crazy ****** random AI issue today?
MarvinOne
Zilog Enterprises
#1075 - 2016-03-22 07:36:35 UTC
Also the "Burner talos" seemes to have changed. The minefield-turrets seems to activate more than bfor? Any1
experienced this too ?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#1076 - 2016-03-22 09:40:59 UTC
Commander Maxter wrote:
Well as of March 21st, or sometime in the week before this date, the Anomic Base "Destroy the Burner Ashimmu and its Henchmen" has changed quite much. The sentinels AND the ashimmu agress drones 100% of the time. I have been using a average fit Gila from this thread for a long time and never lost more than 2-3 tech 1 Vespas. Today I lost all tech 1 Vespas AND my t2 GTFO Vespas all while pointed, thus losing my Gila. I then bought another gila, went in to finish the ashimmu as his sentinels were already dead. Upon deploying my drones he immediately aggressed my vespa 1's again and killed 2 of them before I killed him. So basically from what I am seeing, drones get full agro 100% of the time in this mission now.

Is anyone else seeing this change or did I just experience a crazy ****** random AI issue today?

has been a pretty good chance at that happening for months now. And according to one of my posts it has almost always been possible. Drone hate is pretty strongly coded into the burner AI. I carry a mobile depot and a cargo full of t1 drones to make sure I can get the job done. When did the orthrus get nerfed? I think Anize Oramara made an orthrus fit for the mission because of that, or maybe it was an onyx? Some comments on page 48 about drone aggro and that was in mid december, cba to scroll back any more right now. but somewhere before then it seemed to become a more common issue.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Tenno Shaishi
Wondering manul
#1077 - 2016-03-23 01:03:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tenno Shaishi
Managed to kill guristas burner. I am quite far away from all-5 and it took like 500m to find a key. So I am sort of proud of myself. Anyway, let's explain to newbies like me, WHY this fit looks like it does.

Scram - must have if no matar frigs 5 learned. If he has the same speed as you, you are dead having Void S.
I do not know if matar-V will work at all, honestly. If matar frigs is less than 5, you should probably replace one rig with thruster to be fast enough to orbit the worm and load Caldary Navy Antimmater S instead of Void S.

BEFORE you jump there,
1 heat your scram,
2. set default orbit to 500 (trust me, you will actually orbit him at 1600)
3. heat mwd.
right after the jump immediately (!!!) turn on your hardeners, or you will be dead in one shot.
check where this bastard is, press orbit, make sure you starting to move toward him, turn on mwd. try not to miss scram distance. Having the distance like 7000, turn off the heat on mwd, on 5k turn off the heat on scram.
Ofc do not forget to repair and replenish capacitor.
So, you are orbiting him on ~1600? Now it is the time to heat your guns. You are not in a hury anymore, just be cool and do not panic. Heat your weapon for 10 shots, turn the heat off, repeat.

[Daredevil, Burner gurista]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Centus C-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Coreli A-Type Small Armor Repairer

Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
[empty high slot]
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Void S x2840
Navy Cap Booster 400 x11


Let's imagine you've lost the ship (welcome to the club) and eager to have your revenge. Before you warp in, try to remember, how far from mission beacon you were killed. The far it happen, the worser is the situation, because this fit is quite short on cap. try to reach him as fast as possible, maybe even burning mwd away.


P.S.: this is actually my first fit which is maid totally by myself and tuned after losing another ship. I started with comet, and managed to reach and pin him down, but it seems that comet requires all-V skill to do enough damage. Or, may be, I just have to think a bit more.
P.P.S.: on the second thought, It dawn to me that your friend on armor griffin loaded with anti-kinetic in lows and full stack of ECM jammers could be much better answer...
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#1078 - 2016-03-23 02:05:56 UTC
imo it is better to just approach the guristas burner so you don't lose any damage to transversal, at blaster range it just tries to fly away in a straight line so you get good hits.

also it really helps to heat the hardeners for the first cycle or two, if you break ~5km/s you are faster than the missiles and you can get hit by 2 at the same time.

MWD I always heat it for the first cycle, and using the recommended fit with max skills and a zor's I get into scram range with one MWD cycle. with lower skills I'd guess you are close but probably should run a 2nd MWD cycle with the heat off. 5mn MWDs generate a lot of heat so I wouldn't try to do more than 1 cycle heated. Also you can typically activate the scram slightly before you get into range

also the burner is always directly behind you so if you turn the camera backwards in warp you should be facing it.

last thing with only 2 guns and an empty high the daredevil can heat for a very long time. I typically turn my heat on as soon as I start shooting and forget about it.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Commander Maxter
Rancho Buena Vista
#1079 - 2016-03-23 05:51:36 UTC
Commander Maxter wrote:
Well as of March 21st, or sometime in the week before this date, the Anomic Base "Destroy the Burner Ashimmu and its Henchmen" has changed quite much. The sentinels AND the ashimmu agress drones 100% of the time. I have been using a average fit Gila from this thread for a long time and never lost more than 2-3 tech 1 Vespas. Today I lost all tech 1 Vespas AND my t2 GTFO Vespas all while pointed, thus losing my Gila. I then bought another gila, went in to finish the ashimmu as his sentinels were already dead. Upon deploying my drones he immediately aggressed my vespa 1's again and killed 2 of them before I killed him. So basically from what I am seeing, drones get full agro 100% of the time in this mission now.

Is anyone else seeing this change or did I just experience a crazy ****** random AI issue today?




Well I figured out what happened and what I did wrong. This one time I deployed my drones too fast before I started shooting with my rapid lights. So yeah, you have to get 2-3 volleys off with missles then deploy drones. The mission is back to what I am used too. I also now carry a mobile depot with 20 extra Vespa I's just in case I have issues again in the future. I also have 3 warp core stabs in cargo for GTFO.
Tenno Shaishi
Wondering manul
#1080 - 2016-03-23 08:13:41 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
imo it is better to just approach the guristas burner so you don't lose any damage to transversal, at blaster range it just tries to fly away in a straight line so you get good hits.

Looks like orbiting was a wrong decision.


Quote:
also the burner is always directly behind you so if you turn the camera backwards in warp you should be facing it.

Only on the first try. Every subsequent leaves him near your new wreck.

Quote:
last thing with only 2 guns and an empty high the daredevil can heat for a very long time. I typically turn my heat on as soon as I start shooting and forget about it.

With appropriate thermodinamic skill. Even with blaster-empty-blaster it is a bit complicated to me.
Thanks for advices.