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Dev blog: Size Matters: Introducing Burner Missions

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Indahmawar Fazmarai
#281 - 2014-08-15 16:54:52 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thank you very much for the enthusiastic responses in this thread!

It's always a good feeling as a designer when the most common feedback from the community is "sounds good but you should make more of it" and "sounds good but you should let people get to it more easily".

I completely understand why people would want to have these missions accessible from their own dedicated agents, and that is definitely something we'd like to do with similar missions in the future. However since these missions are going to be a bit more profitable than average level 4s and because there's only going to be five of them in this initial deployment, they aren't really suitable to stand on their own right now.
As an aside, we're completely aware of blitzers (there are plenty of very efficient mission runners in this office) but we feel there's a pretty good range we can place these rewards where they'll be missions that average level 4 mission runners like to see without completely imbalancing the blitzing gameplay.

It's possible that we could attach some of these sorts of missions to a similar system as the pirate faction epic arcs (which also represent some very engaging small ship PVE content) in addition to their presence in the general level 4 mission pool. That kind of addition would not come until after Hyperion however.

I'm also seeing a lot of excellent questions about the capabilities of these NPCs. I want to be clear that these NPCs are evolutionary steps from previous NPCs, not revolutionary.
We have a team dedicated to improving our PVE content authoring tools, which will bear fruit for NPCs and AI in the future. In the meantime however, we are also continuing to improve our content with the tools available to us now. That's why the Hyperion release is featuring these new missions as well as the set of Incursion improvements that CCP Foxfour describes in this thread.

So the upshot for these NPCs is that they will act in a similar manner to some of the other recently added NPCs like the Mordu's Legion asteroid belt patrols in lowsec. The only completely new functionality they will enjoy is that the Burners who use warp scramblers will shut off player MWDs in the same way that player scrams do. These NPCs will not run out of cap, or warp away. Those kinds of improvements are definitely on our medium to long term roadmap, and when we do have them ready to go the burner missions will provide excellent places testing the new capabilities.


Well, I've resubbed this alt mostly to talk about those missions. Now, there's only one thing that seriosuly makes me uncomfortable, and it would be very kind if you just cleared it....

Will the mission targets (the "Burners") spawn in the same security as the agent giving the mission?

More specifically, will highsec agents send players to highsec systems only, and lowsec agents send players to lowsec systems only?

I would be extremely upset if my highsec agents sent me to lowsec.

Thank you.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#282 - 2014-08-15 17:10:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Retar Aveymone
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Will the mission targets (the "Burners") spawn in the same security as the agent giving the mission?

More specifically, will highsec agents send players to highsec systems only, and lowsec agents send players to lowsec systems only?

I would be extremely upset if my highsec agents sent me to lowsec.

Thank you.

This is a good point: as you're only asking people to risk a frigate, this might be a good way to lure people into trying lowsec. You'd have to bump up the rewards a little bit, but highsec agents offering lucrative lowsec missions would be a great stepping stone.
edit: "steoing stone" what the hell
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#283 - 2014-08-15 17:11:05 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Will the mission targets (the "Burners") spawn in the same security as the agent giving the mission?

More specifically, will highsec agents send players to highsec systems only, and lowsec agents send players to lowsec systems only?

I would be extremely upset if my highsec agents sent me to lowsec.

Thank you.



This can already happen if your lv 4 agent boarders low sec
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#284 - 2014-08-15 17:20:13 UTC
Optimo Sebiestor wrote:

I hear you, and i dont mind pve'rs getting stuff from ccp. Thing is, unless you dive into a bulls**** standings spreadsheet wannakillmyselfalldaylong, you will be riding those bs type of lvl iv's. So imo, both pvp'rs that want to do these missions as well as pve'rs that like frigate sized action gets screwed over in the same way.


So, stick to station spinning and ganking noobs at gates then.

PvPer didn't used to mean big entitled crybaby.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#285 - 2014-08-15 17:32:41 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Will the mission targets (the "Burners") spawn in the same security as the agent giving the mission?

More specifically, will highsec agents send players to highsec systems only, and lowsec agents send players to lowsec systems only?

I would be extremely upset if my highsec agents sent me to lowsec.

Thank you.



This can already happen if your lv 4 agent boarders low sec


Yes, it happens sometimes, but that's a bug, not a design feature.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#286 - 2014-08-15 17:33:34 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Well, I've resubbed this alt mostly to talk about those missions. Now, there's only one thing that seriosuly makes me uncomfortable, and it would be very kind if you just cleared it....

Will the mission targets (the "Burners") spawn in the same security as the agent giving the mission?

More specifically, will highsec agents send players to highsec systems only, and lowsec agents send players to lowsec systems only?

I would be extremely upset if my highsec agents sent me to lowsec.

Thank you.


These missions will follow the same rules as normal security missions. They send you to a nearby system and don't care what security status it is. If you run them in an area surrounded by lots of highsec, they'll send you to highsec.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#287 - 2014-08-15 17:43:00 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#288 - 2014-08-15 17:48:51 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Well, I've resubbed this alt mostly to talk about those missions. Now, there's only one thing that seriosuly makes me uncomfortable, and it would be very kind if you just cleared it....

Will the mission targets (the "Burners") spawn in the same security as the agent giving the mission?

More specifically, will highsec agents send players to highsec systems only, and lowsec agents send players to lowsec systems only?

I would be extremely upset if my highsec agents sent me to lowsec.

Thank you.


These missions will follow the same rules as normal security missions. They send you to a nearby system and don't care what security status it is. If you run them in an area surrounded by lots of highsec, they'll send you to highsec.


Thanks you for clarifying, the latest PvE additions by CCP Affinity and CCP Reddawn were so focused on luring people into lowsec that it looked as the only development policy in town... Bear
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#289 - 2014-08-15 17:49:41 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Will the mission targets (the "Burners") spawn in the same security as the agent giving the mission?

More specifically, will highsec agents send players to highsec systems only, and lowsec agents send players to lowsec systems only?

I would be extremely upset if my highsec agents sent me to lowsec.

Thank you.



This can already happen if your lv 4 agent boarders low sec


Yes, it happens sometimes, but that's a bug, not a design feature.



nope not bug.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#290 - 2014-08-15 17:51:31 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Will the mission targets (the "Burners") spawn in the same security as the agent giving the mission?

More specifically, will highsec agents send players to highsec systems only, and lowsec agents send players to lowsec systems only?

I would be extremely upset if my highsec agents sent me to lowsec.

Thank you.



This can already happen if your lv 4 agent boarders low sec


Yes, it happens sometimes, but that's a bug, not a design feature.



When did CCP ever say that was a bug?

You are probably confusing this with lvl 5 missions in high sec, which was a bug as lvl 5s are a special case from CCP intended for low sec (they can occasionally send you to null, but never to high after the bug got fixed).

High sec lvl 1-4s from agents near low sec have always been able to send you to low sec, the reverse is true for low sec agents EXCEPT lvl s.
Sandman Logan3
Sandman and Lino DRP
#291 - 2014-08-15 18:02:41 UTC
+1 for new content.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#292 - 2014-08-15 18:03:09 UTC
I am looking forward to this so much!

I have 5 AFs sitting in my hangar, each with the name of a single burner rat inscribed on the hull.
Daedra Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#293 - 2014-08-15 18:36:28 UTC
Mandatory the rat should be able to warp off @ end of grid (still visible but far away 200KM+) to regen then warp to spawn point again, forcing the player to fit a warp disruptor AND maintain it so he doesn't lose its pray just like a player.
Jerin Crank
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#294 - 2014-08-15 18:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerin Crank
1. Will the burner missions be regional?

eg. You only get the blood raider burner in Amarr space?



2. Will the burner missions be factional?

eg You only get the blood raider burner from agents in the Amarr faction?



EDIT: I agree with the person above me. Make pointing the rat necessary.
Korblazer
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#295 - 2014-08-15 18:48:18 UTC
I love this idea, I also would love to see an option to run these at increased difficulties (and also the regular lvl 4 missions)

Flying a Marauder decked out with officer mods makes the regular lvl 4 missions a little too easy. Sure, when I got my first lvl 4 mission, I was still using my Battlecruiser (Drake), and things were pretty tough. Getting into a Battleship (Raven) made it a bit more manageable, but some lvl 4's were still very tough. And now they're all too easy, unless I intentionally nerf my ship.

I would love to see an additional element to the missions system, simply select from a drop-down menu whether or not we want to run a default difficulty (Tier 1) or an advanced difficulty (Tier 2, or 3, etc) version of the same mission. These could be made apparent by increasing the number of enemy ships, or their make/model, or simply increase all of their stats, etc. Some kind of option which would make them more challenging, and increase the rewards accordingly.

By reducing the size of the hull type that can enter the mission site, this could also increase rewards. Let me try to run that level 4 mission with my HAC or my Battlecruiser and give me rewards according to the difficulty of that. Or give me a checkbox to "Fully Commit" to the mission, which would prevent warping away from the fight, making the loss of my ship a very real danger, but could maybe double the payout of the mission.

Lots of ways to modify the current missions to make them more interesting and challenging. Although I love the idea of very tough frigate missions.

Hopefully there will be more than combat-focused burner missions. How about keeping the shield or armor up on an AI controlled transport through hostile territory? Or sneaking through a minefield while maintaining your cloak to deliver a package? What about a suicide mission where you simply kill as many NPC's as possible before your ship is ultimately destroyed, an increased number of kills provides increased rewards. So many possibilities besides combat that would keep us on our toes.

-Kor
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#296 - 2014-08-15 19:10:30 UTC
Korblazer wrote:
Or sneaking through a minefield while maintaining your cloak to deliver a package? What about a suicide mission where you simply kill as many NPC's as possible before your ship is ultimately destroyed, an increased number of kills provides increased rewards. So many possibilities besides combat that would keep us on our toes.

-Kor


The minefield mission already exists in the guristas pirate arc. Sneaking through a minefield whilst out in null is interesting :). A last stand mission to defend a gate as freighters or similar escape could be fun too
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#297 - 2014-08-15 19:28:38 UTC
is there a chance for a cloaky griffin to appear? I mean a NPC without alt is a bit unrealistic.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#298 - 2014-08-15 20:04:11 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
is there a chance for a cloaky griffin to appear? I mean a NPC without alt is a bit unrealistic.

LOL.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
6ie
The Kiwis
#299 - 2014-08-15 20:22:00 UTC
As a carebear lvl 4 mission runner - I love it.
Can't wait for battleship versions...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#300 - 2014-08-15 20:48:14 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
However since these missions are going to be a bit more profitable than average level 4s

These missions should not be in highsec. Level 4 missions do not need any buff in profitability.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
As an aside, we're completely aware of blitzers (there are plenty of very efficient mission runners in this office) but we feel there's a pretty good range we can place these rewards where they'll be missions that average level 4 mission runners like to see without completely imbalancing the blitzing gameplay.

Really? You're comfortable with level 4 blitz income, so you're adding more on top of that? Are you really sure you want to go this route?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)